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Myth or truth ?

microsoft.public.windowsupdate






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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2009
t-4-2
 

Posts: n/a
Myth or truth ?
The kind of updates we receive is based on each individual computer.
Meaning, update A would be offered to computer A but not to computer B
because B already has it, or does not need it.
Truth or myth ?
t-4-2

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2009
PA Bear [MS MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Myth or truth ?
True. The Windows Update detection engine "knows" what a given computer
needs, 99% of the time.

If you examine your WindowsUpdate.log, you'll see some of the stuff that's
detected. As an example, here's a snippet of the log on my laptop from late
Mar-09:

2009-03-22 20:51:48:643 956 574 Report * OS Version = 5.1.2600.3.0.66304
2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Brand = Dell Computer
Corporation
2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Model = Inspiron 600m
2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Revision = A17
2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Name = Phoenix ROM BIOS
PLUS Version 1.10 A17
2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Release Date =
2005-06-29T00:00:00
2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Locale ID = 1033

--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


t-4-2 wrote:
> The kind of updates we receive is based on each individual computer.
> Meaning, update A would be offered to computer A but not to computer B
> because B already has it, or does not need it.
> Truth or myth ?
> t-4-2


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2009
t-4-2
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Myth or truth ?
Thank you. The reason of such question is a pretext........
There was time I had to do a system restore, going back to the date BEFORE I
installed an update which said " once installed, it cannot be
deleted/removed ". After the system restore, the same update showed up for
installing. Update History showed update was successfully installed.
So, here is the question which I was unable to receive a satisfied answer :
Why ask me to install the same update again? Search engine should know I
already have it. Its shown on the Update History.
t-4-2



"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OKngRou5JHA.1712@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> True. The Windows Update detection engine "knows" what a given computer
> needs, 99% of the time.
>
> If you examine your WindowsUpdate.log, you'll see some of the stuff that's
> detected. As an example, here's a snippet of the log on my laptop from
> late Mar-09:
>
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:643 956 574 Report * OS Version =
> 5.1.2600.3.0.66304
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Brand = Dell Computer
> Corporation
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Model = Inspiron 600m
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Revision = A17
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Name = Phoenix ROM BIOS
> PLUS Version 1.10 A17
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Release Date =
> 2005-06-29T00:00:00
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Locale ID = 1033
>
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
>
>
> t-4-2 wrote:
>> The kind of updates we receive is based on each individual computer.
>> Meaning, update A would be offered to computer A but not to computer B
>> because B already has it, or does not need it.
>> Truth or myth ?
>> t-4-2

>

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2009
Shenan Stanley
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Myth or truth ?
t-4-2 wrote:
> The kind of updates we receive is based on each individual computer.
> Meaning, update A would be offered to computer A but not to
> computer B because B already has it, or does not need it.
> Truth or myth ?


PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
> True. The Windows Update detection engine "knows" what a given
> computer needs, 99% of the time.
>
> If you examine your WindowsUpdate.log, you'll see some of the stuff
> that's detected. As an example, here's a snippet of the log on my
> laptop from late Mar-09:
>
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:643 956 574 Report * OS Version =
> 5.1.2600.3.0.66304 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report *
> Computer Brand = Dell Computer Corporation
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Model =
> Inspiron 600m 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios
> Revision = A17 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios
> Name = Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A17
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Release Date =
> 2005-06-29T00:00:00
> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Locale ID = 1033


t-4-2 wrote:
> The reason of such question is a pretext........
> There was time I had to do a system restore, going back to the date
> BEFORE I installed an update which said " once installed, it cannot
> be deleted/removed ". After the system restore, the same update
> showed up for installing. Update History showed update was
> successfully installed. So, here is the question which I was unable to
> receive a satisfied
> answer : Why ask me to install the same update again? Search engine
> should know I already have it. Its shown on the Update History.


You may not already have it. You restored *System Files* to a date before
you installed said update - by your own admission.

System Restore had a snapshot of your system files at a given point in time.
Several most likely. So - it had snapshots of your system files before the
update was installed and likely after the update was installed. You decided
to return the computer's *system files* (some log/history files *are not*
considered system files) to a date before you installed said update. That
restore the system files it likely changed to a state before the update was
applied - so you need that update again no matter what the likely *text
version* of your update log says - in some cases it is just as useful as
writing down the updates on paper.

Don't over-think this. It's really simple.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2009
PA Bear [MS MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Myth or truth ?
[I thought there might be a back-story here.]

Update History section of Windows Update webpage isn't at all intuitive,
it's just historically descriptive. For example, you can uninstall (an
uninstallable) update but doing so won't have any effect on what you see in
Update History. In such instances, rely on a CUSTOM scan (or Automatic
Updates).

What problems were you having that you thought using System Restore might
resolve? Did doing so resolve the problems?

Which update are you referring to and what Windows version (e.g., WinXP SP3;
Vista x64 SP2) is involved here?

Does Windows Update and/or Automatic Updates still offer this update? If
so, can you successfully install it again?


t-4-2 wrote:
> Thank you. The reason of such question is a pretext........
> There was time I had to do a system restore, going back to the date BEFORE
> I
> installed an update which said " once installed, it cannot be
> deleted/removed ". After the system restore, the same update showed up for
> installing. Update History showed update was successfully installed.
> So, here is the question which I was unable to receive a satisfied answer
> :
> Why ask me to install the same update again? Search engine should know I
> already have it. Its shown on the Update History.
> t-4-2
>
>
>
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OKngRou5JHA.1712@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> True. The Windows Update detection engine "knows" what a given computer
>> needs, 99% of the time.
>>
>> If you examine your WindowsUpdate.log, you'll see some of the stuff
>> that's
>> detected. As an example, here's a snippet of the log on my laptop from
>> late Mar-09:
>>
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:643 956 574 Report * OS Version =
>> 5.1.2600.3.0.66304
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Brand = Dell
>> Computer
>> Corporation
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Model = Inspiron
>> 600m
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Revision = A17
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Name = Phoenix ROM BIOS
>> PLUS Version 1.10 A17
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Release Date =
>> 2005-06-29T00:00:00
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Locale ID = 1033
>>
>> --
>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
>>
>>
>> t-4-2 wrote:
>>> The kind of updates we receive is based on each individual computer.
>>> Meaning, update A would be offered to computer A but not to computer B
>>> because B already has it, or does not need it.
>>> Truth or myth ?
>>> t-4-2


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2009
t-4-2
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Myth or truth ?
Thank you. So, the statement which claimed " Once you have installed this
item, it cannot be removed " is, shall we say, " full of it ".
t-4-2

"Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:#PnVrBv5JHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> t-4-2 wrote:
>> The kind of updates we receive is based on each individual computer.
>> Meaning, update A would be offered to computer A but not to
>> computer B because B already has it, or does not need it.
>> Truth or myth ?

>
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>> True. The Windows Update detection engine "knows" what a given
>> computer needs, 99% of the time.
>>
>> If you examine your WindowsUpdate.log, you'll see some of the stuff
>> that's detected. As an example, here's a snippet of the log on my
>> laptop from late Mar-09:
>>
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:643 956 574 Report * OS Version =
>> 5.1.2600.3.0.66304 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report *
>> Computer Brand = Dell Computer Corporation
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Model =
>> Inspiron 600m 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios
>> Revision = A17 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios
>> Name = Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A17
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Release Date =
>> 2005-06-29T00:00:00
>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Locale ID = 1033

>
> t-4-2 wrote:
>> The reason of such question is a pretext........
>> There was time I had to do a system restore, going back to the date
>> BEFORE I installed an update which said " once installed, it cannot
>> be deleted/removed ". After the system restore, the same update
>> showed up for installing. Update History showed update was
>> successfully installed. So, here is the question which I was unable to
>> receive a satisfied
>> answer : Why ask me to install the same update again? Search engine
>> should know I already have it. Its shown on the Update History.

>
> You may not already have it. You restored *System Files* to a date before
> you installed said update - by your own admission.
>
> System Restore had a snapshot of your system files at a given point in
> time. Several most likely. So - it had snapshots of your system files
> before the update was installed and likely after the update was installed.
> You decided to return the computer's *system files* (some log/history
> files *are not* considered system files) to a date before you installed
> said update. That restore the system files it likely changed to a state
> before the update was applied - so you need that update again no matter
> what the likely *text version* of your update log says - in some cases it
> is just as useful as writing down the updates on paper.
>
> Don't over-think this. It's really simple.
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
> --
> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2009
PA Bear [MS MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Myth or truth ?
In this instance, Remove = Uninstall.

t-4-2 wrote:
> Thank you. So, the statement which claimed " Once you have installed this
> item, it cannot be removed " is, shall we say, " full of it ".
> t-4-2
>
> "Shenan Stanley" <newshelper@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:#PnVrBv5JHA.1416@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> t-4-2 wrote:
>>> The kind of updates we receive is based on each individual computer.
>>> Meaning, update A would be offered to computer A but not to
>>> computer B because B already has it, or does not need it.
>>> Truth or myth ?

>>
>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>> True. The Windows Update detection engine "knows" what a given
>>> computer needs, 99% of the time.
>>>
>>> If you examine your WindowsUpdate.log, you'll see some of the stuff
>>> that's detected. As an example, here's a snippet of the log on my
>>> laptop from late Mar-09:
>>>
>>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:643 956 574 Report * OS Version =
>>> 5.1.2600.3.0.66304 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report *
>>> Computer Brand = Dell Computer Corporation
>>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:693 956 574 Report * Computer Model =
>>> Inspiron 600m 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios
>>> Revision = A17 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios
>>> Name = Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A17
>>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Bios Release Date =
>>> 2005-06-29T00:00:00
>>> 2009-03-22 20:51:48:754 956 574 Report * Locale ID = 1033

>>
>> t-4-2 wrote:
>>> The reason of such question is a pretext........
>>> There was time I had to do a system restore, going back to the date
>>> BEFORE I installed an update which said " once installed, it cannot
>>> be deleted/removed ". After the system restore, the same update
>>> showed up for installing. Update History showed update was
>>> successfully installed. So, here is the question which I was unable to
>>> receive a satisfied
>>> answer : Why ask me to install the same update again? Search engine
>>> should know I already have it. Its shown on the Update History.

>>
>> You may not already have it. You restored *System Files* to a date
>> before
>> you installed said update - by your own admission.
>>
>> System Restore had a snapshot of your system files at a given point in
>> time. Several most likely. So - it had snapshots of your system files
>> before the update was installed and likely after the update was
>> installed.
>> You decided to return the computer's *system files* (some log/history
>> files *are not* considered system files) to a date before you installed
>> said update. That restore the system files it likely changed to a state
>> before the update was applied - so you need that update again no matter
>> what the likely *text version* of your update log says - in some cases it
>> is just as useful as writing down the updates on paper.
>>
>> Don't over-think this. It's really simple.
>>
>> --
>> Shenan Stanley
>> MS-MVP
>> --
>> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
>> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2009
Shenan Stanley
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Myth or truth ?
<snipped>
(archived indefinitely)

t-4-2 wrote:
> Thank you. So, the statement which claimed " Once you have
> installed this item, it cannot be removed " is, shall we say, "
> full of it ".


Depends on how you read it/interpret and exactly how it was phrased along
with what *you* consider to be removal/uninstall. I'm pretty sure it
probably specified you could not uninstall/remove it - meaning *just it* -
which could still be proven false with enough effort (make backup, install
just it, restore backup.)

If I use a third party imaging application and make an exact duplicate of my
system partition before I install an update - no matter what it says about
being unable to uninstall, etc - I can revert back to that exact duplicate
anytime I wish after installing anything I wish and other than the passage
of time - my computer is exactly the way it was when I made the
image/duplicate.

System Restore works much in the same manner.

I can weld something onto your car and tell you it is permanent - but if you
have a big enough "hammer" - it may not be so permanent.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2009
Robert Aldwinckle
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Myth or truth ?

"t-4-2" <dhuang1@cogeco.ca> wrote in message news:OgzRmzu5JHA.3304@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Thank you. The reason of such question is a pretext........
> There was time I had to do a system restore, going back to the date BEFORE I
> installed an update which said " once installed, it cannot be
> deleted/removed ". After the system restore, the same update showed up for
> installing. Update History showed update was successfully installed.
> So, here is the question which I was unable to receive a satisfied answer :


> Why ask me to install the same update again?



For the same reason that it would if you corrupted or regressed
one of the modules it would be updating: it wasn't up-to-date. ; )

You may see the same symptom if you try to avoid doing a reboot
after an update which requires one. Same reason: active modules
haven't been updated; they're just pending a final copy/rename into the
system directory where their older versions are currently still in use.


> Search engine should know I already have it. Its shown on the Update History.



History is irrelevant. What matters is the current status of the modules
and to a lesser extent some bookkeeping in the registry.

If you are seeing in your History multiple instances of an update being installed
you could regard that as a diagnostic that you may want to investigate and
understand the reason for. E.g. in your case it may be easily understood
as a consequence of your Restore or it may be a symptom of something
that is inhibiting the complete installation of that update's changes,
e.g. both to the file system and in the registry.


FYI

Robert Aldwinckle
---


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