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restart after update

microsoft.public.windowsupdate






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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2008
Bob
 

Posts: n/a
restart after update
I have Windows XP Home SP3 and have had some problems restarting my laptop
after updating. The problem I think might be in the "saved settings" as the
computer shuts down and then reboots. There may be code saved in memory or
on disk that doesn't match up with the updates and then I get the "black
screen of death (I like to call it)" where I'm told Windows did not shut down
properly. I try all the options but they never work. What I've started to
do is, after the updates are installed, shut the computer down completely,
wait awhile and then restart it. Most times it restarts normally sometimes I
get the "Windows didn't shut down properly" message. Then I try "boot from
last good..." or "boot normaly" and so far this procedure has worked but I'm
afraid a time will come when I'm stuck with the black screen and in continual
reboot.

Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
it's the problem), etc.?

Note: I have had similar problems with other software updates such as HP's
Photosmart software when, in it's update process, it automatically reboots.

Thanks much.
Reply With Quote
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2008
MowGreen [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: restart after update
Bob,

Your question here says it all:

> Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
> take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
> it's the problem), etc.?


Unless the latest version of NAV is installed, and I'm just going by
what Symantec puts out in news releases for it's latest Version of NAV,
then it's plain and simple a PITA when it comes to updating Windows with
it installed and/or actively monitoring the system.
What you're probably seeing is Windows attempting to remove a system
file that will be replaced by the update when the system restarts.
NAV 'thinks' it's guarding said files and so it struggles with Windows
over it. Unfortunately for most Norton Users, NAV 'wins' a pyhrric
victory which then screws up Windows.

Either read the User Guides to completely and totally disable all
service and processes of NAV or, use MSConfig and Disable all 3rd party
services prior to any attempt to install updates.

To access MSConfig, go to Start > Run > type in

msconfig

Click OK or press Enter
Click the Services tab. Put a check in the box at the bottom that states
" Hide all Microsoft Services "
UNcheck all of the boxes that show the service as Running.
Click Apply, End [ or, OK], and restart the system now.
The System Configuration Utility window will open when the system starts
up. Put a check in the box to not show it again, click OK.

*** IF a 3rd party firewall has been Disabled make sure that the Windows
Firewall is now Enabled. ***

Install the updates now and restart it.
Reopen MSConfig.
Click the Services tab and follow the same steps to *Check* the boxes
that were previously Disabled.
Click Apply, End [ or, OK]
Click NO to the prompt to restart or Exit and disable the native XP
firewall now if you've Enabled it.
Restart now.
The System Configuration Utility window will open again as before.
Put a check in the box to not show it again so it doesn't load on all
startups.

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============



Bob wrote:

> I have Windows XP Home SP3 and have had some problems restarting my laptop
> after updating. The problem I think might be in the "saved settings" as the
> computer shuts down and then reboots. There may be code saved in memory or
> on disk that doesn't match up with the updates and then I get the "black
> screen of death (I like to call it)" where I'm told Windows did not shut down
> properly. I try all the options but they never work. What I've started to
> do is, after the updates are installed, shut the computer down completely,
> wait awhile and then restart it. Most times it restarts normally sometimes I
> get the "Windows didn't shut down properly" message. Then I try "boot from
> last good..." or "boot normaly" and so far this procedure has worked but I'm
> afraid a time will come when I'm stuck with the black screen and in continual
> reboot.
>
> Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
> take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
> it's the problem), etc.?
>
> Note: I have had similar problems with other software updates such as HP's
> Photosmart software when, in it's update process, it automatically reboots.
>
> Thanks much.

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2008
Bob
 

Posts: n/a
Re: restart after update
That certainly makes sense to me. It's usually the recommendation by the
software folks to disable NAV when installing or updating their programs. It
is probably especially true when updating the Windows operating system
software which NAV likes to keep a close eye on.

I think before I use your procedure though I'll check out what Norton has to
say. I'm using NAV 2009.

Here's another question for you. Say you're stuck in permanent "reboot".
Is there anyway to recover and go back to some previous "last good setting"?
Thanks.

"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Your question here says it all:
>
> > Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
> > take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
> > it's the problem), etc.?

>
> Unless the latest version of NAV is installed, and I'm just going by
> what Symantec puts out in news releases for it's latest Version of NAV,
> then it's plain and simple a PITA when it comes to updating Windows with
> it installed and/or actively monitoring the system.
> What you're probably seeing is Windows attempting to remove a system
> file that will be replaced by the update when the system restarts.
> NAV 'thinks' it's guarding said files and so it struggles with Windows
> over it. Unfortunately for most Norton Users, NAV 'wins' a pyhrric
> victory which then screws up Windows.
>
> Either read the User Guides to completely and totally disable all
> service and processes of NAV or, use MSConfig and Disable all 3rd party
> services prior to any attempt to install updates.
>
> To access MSConfig, go to Start > Run > type in
>
> msconfig
>
> Click OK or press Enter
> Click the Services tab. Put a check in the box at the bottom that states
> " Hide all Microsoft Services "
> UNcheck all of the boxes that show the service as Running.
> Click Apply, End [ or, OK], and restart the system now.
> The System Configuration Utility window will open when the system starts
> up. Put a check in the box to not show it again, click OK.
>
> *** IF a 3rd party firewall has been Disabled make sure that the Windows
> Firewall is now Enabled. ***
>
> Install the updates now and restart it.
> Reopen MSConfig.
> Click the Services tab and follow the same steps to *Check* the boxes
> that were previously Disabled.
> Click Apply, End [ or, OK]
> Click NO to the prompt to restart or Exit and disable the native XP
> firewall now if you've Enabled it.
> Restart now.
> The System Configuration Utility window will open again as before.
> Put a check in the box to not show it again so it doesn't load on all
> startups.
>
> MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
> ===============
> *-343-* FDNY
> Never Forgotten
> ===============
>
>
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> > I have Windows XP Home SP3 and have had some problems restarting my laptop
> > after updating. The problem I think might be in the "saved settings" as the
> > computer shuts down and then reboots. There may be code saved in memory or
> > on disk that doesn't match up with the updates and then I get the "black
> > screen of death (I like to call it)" where I'm told Windows did not shut down
> > properly. I try all the options but they never work. What I've started to
> > do is, after the updates are installed, shut the computer down completely,
> > wait awhile and then restart it. Most times it restarts normally sometimes I
> > get the "Windows didn't shut down properly" message. Then I try "boot from
> > last good..." or "boot normaly" and so far this procedure has worked but I'm
> > afraid a time will come when I'm stuck with the black screen and in continual
> > reboot.
> >
> > Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
> > take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
> > it's the problem), etc.?
> >
> > Note: I have had similar problems with other software updates such as HP's
> > Photosmart software when, in it's update process, it automatically reboots.
> >
> > Thanks much.

>

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2008
MowGreen [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: restart after update
Bob,

Not quite sure what you mean when you refer to 'permanent reboot'.
You can see what any pending installations are by using the registry
editor: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555175

See Method 11. As I mentioned previously, supposedly, NAV 2009 does not
have issues allowing file replacement as previous versions of NAV had.
But, that may just be part of Symantec's PR and not what happens in the
real world <w>

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============


Bob wrote:

> That certainly makes sense to me. It's usually the recommendation by the
> software folks to disable NAV when installing or updating their programs. It
> is probably especially true when updating the Windows operating system
> software which NAV likes to keep a close eye on.
>
> I think before I use your procedure though I'll check out what Norton has to
> say. I'm using NAV 2009.
>
> Here's another question for you. Say you're stuck in permanent "reboot".
> Is there anyway to recover and go back to some previous "last good setting"?
> Thanks.
>
> "MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>>Bob,
>>
>>Your question here says it all:
>>
>>
>>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
>>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
>>>it's the problem), etc.?

>>
>>Unless the latest version of NAV is installed, and I'm just going by
>>what Symantec puts out in news releases for it's latest Version of NAV,
>>then it's plain and simple a PITA when it comes to updating Windows with
>>it installed and/or actively monitoring the system.
>>What you're probably seeing is Windows attempting to remove a system
>>file that will be replaced by the update when the system restarts.
>>NAV 'thinks' it's guarding said files and so it struggles with Windows
>>over it. Unfortunately for most Norton Users, NAV 'wins' a pyhrric
>>victory which then screws up Windows.
>>
>>Either read the User Guides to completely and totally disable all
>>service and processes of NAV or, use MSConfig and Disable all 3rd party
>>services prior to any attempt to install updates.
>>
>>To access MSConfig, go to Start > Run > type in
>>
>>msconfig
>>
>>Click OK or press Enter
>>Click the Services tab. Put a check in the box at the bottom that states
>>" Hide all Microsoft Services "
>>UNcheck all of the boxes that show the service as Running.
>>Click Apply, End [ or, OK], and restart the system now.
>>The System Configuration Utility window will open when the system starts
>>up. Put a check in the box to not show it again, click OK.
>>
>>*** IF a 3rd party firewall has been Disabled make sure that the Windows
>>Firewall is now Enabled. ***
>>
>>Install the updates now and restart it.
>>Reopen MSConfig.
>>Click the Services tab and follow the same steps to *Check* the boxes
>>that were previously Disabled.
>>Click Apply, End [ or, OK]
>>Click NO to the prompt to restart or Exit and disable the native XP
>>firewall now if you've Enabled it.
>>Restart now.
>>The System Configuration Utility window will open again as before.
>>Put a check in the box to not show it again so it doesn't load on all
>>startups.
>>
>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
>>===============
>> *-343-* FDNY
>>Never Forgotten
>>===============
>>
>>
>>
>>Bob wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have Windows XP Home SP3 and have had some problems restarting my laptop
>>>after updating. The problem I think might be in the "saved settings" as the
>>>computer shuts down and then reboots. There may be code saved in memory or
>>>on disk that doesn't match up with the updates and then I get the "black
>>>screen of death (I like to call it)" where I'm told Windows did not shut down
>>>properly. I try all the options but they never work. What I've started to
>>>do is, after the updates are installed, shut the computer down completely,
>>>wait awhile and then restart it. Most times it restarts normally sometimes I
>>>get the "Windows didn't shut down properly" message. Then I try "boot from
>>>last good..." or "boot normaly" and so far this procedure has worked but I'm
>>>afraid a time will come when I'm stuck with the black screen and in continual
>>>reboot.
>>>
>>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
>>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
>>>it's the problem), etc.?
>>>
>>>Note: I have had similar problems with other software updates such as HP's
>>>Photosmart software when, in it's update process, it automatically reboots.
>>>
>>>Thanks much.

>>

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2008
Bob
 

Posts: n/a
Re: restart after update
By "permanent reboot" I mean you're stuck on the page that says Windows
didn't shut down properly and asks you to Boot normally, Boot from last good
settings, Boot to safe Mode, etc. but no matter what you select you always
bounce back to that screen. So I'm wondering if there is anyway to recover
from that. I think Windows saves settings from several previous sessions and
I'm wondering if getting to them would work. It may not if say the updates
one made wiped out previous files that worked though.

"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:

> Bob,
>
> Not quite sure what you mean when you refer to 'permanent reboot'.
> You can see what any pending installations are by using the registry
> editor: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555175
>
> See Method 11. As I mentioned previously, supposedly, NAV 2009 does not
> have issues allowing file replacement as previous versions of NAV had.
> But, that may just be part of Symantec's PR and not what happens in the
> real world <w>
>
> MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
> ===============
> *-343-* FDNY
> Never Forgotten
> ===============
>
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> > That certainly makes sense to me. It's usually the recommendation by the
> > software folks to disable NAV when installing or updating their programs. It
> > is probably especially true when updating the Windows operating system
> > software which NAV likes to keep a close eye on.
> >
> > I think before I use your procedure though I'll check out what Norton has to
> > say. I'm using NAV 2009.
> >
> > Here's another question for you. Say you're stuck in permanent "reboot".
> > Is there anyway to recover and go back to some previous "last good setting"?
> > Thanks.
> >
> > "MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Bob,
> >>
> >>Your question here says it all:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
> >>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
> >>>it's the problem), etc.?
> >>
> >>Unless the latest version of NAV is installed, and I'm just going by
> >>what Symantec puts out in news releases for it's latest Version of NAV,
> >>then it's plain and simple a PITA when it comes to updating Windows with
> >>it installed and/or actively monitoring the system.
> >>What you're probably seeing is Windows attempting to remove a system
> >>file that will be replaced by the update when the system restarts.
> >>NAV 'thinks' it's guarding said files and so it struggles with Windows
> >>over it. Unfortunately for most Norton Users, NAV 'wins' a pyhrric
> >>victory which then screws up Windows.
> >>
> >>Either read the User Guides to completely and totally disable all
> >>service and processes of NAV or, use MSConfig and Disable all 3rd party
> >>services prior to any attempt to install updates.
> >>
> >>To access MSConfig, go to Start > Run > type in
> >>
> >>msconfig
> >>
> >>Click OK or press Enter
> >>Click the Services tab. Put a check in the box at the bottom that states
> >>" Hide all Microsoft Services "
> >>UNcheck all of the boxes that show the service as Running.
> >>Click Apply, End [ or, OK], and restart the system now.
> >>The System Configuration Utility window will open when the system starts
> >>up. Put a check in the box to not show it again, click OK.
> >>
> >>*** IF a 3rd party firewall has been Disabled make sure that the Windows
> >>Firewall is now Enabled. ***
> >>
> >>Install the updates now and restart it.
> >>Reopen MSConfig.
> >>Click the Services tab and follow the same steps to *Check* the boxes
> >>that were previously Disabled.
> >>Click Apply, End [ or, OK]
> >>Click NO to the prompt to restart or Exit and disable the native XP
> >>firewall now if you've Enabled it.
> >>Restart now.
> >>The System Configuration Utility window will open again as before.
> >>Put a check in the box to not show it again so it doesn't load on all
> >>startups.
> >>
> >>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
> >>===============
> >> *-343-* FDNY
> >>Never Forgotten
> >>===============
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Bob wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I have Windows XP Home SP3 and have had some problems restarting my laptop
> >>>after updating. The problem I think might be in the "saved settings" as the
> >>>computer shuts down and then reboots. There may be code saved in memory or
> >>>on disk that doesn't match up with the updates and then I get the "black
> >>>screen of death (I like to call it)" where I'm told Windows did not shut down
> >>>properly. I try all the options but they never work. What I've started to
> >>>do is, after the updates are installed, shut the computer down completely,
> >>>wait awhile and then restart it. Most times it restarts normally sometimes I
> >>>get the "Windows didn't shut down properly" message. Then I try "boot from
> >>>last good..." or "boot normaly" and so far this procedure has worked but I'm
> >>>afraid a time will come when I'm stuck with the black screen and in continual
> >>>reboot.
> >>>
> >>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
> >>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
> >>>it's the problem), etc.?
> >>>
> >>>Note: I have had similar problems with other software updates such as HP's
> >>>Photosmart software when, in it's update process, it automatically reboots.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks much.
> >>

>

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008
MowGreen [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: restart after update
Hate to bring it up, but ... what you're seeing *may* be stem from a
hardware rather then software issue. Possibly the memory or Hard Drive.
When's the last time you ran chkdsk ?

Prior to running chkdsk open a Command Prompt and run
the below

fsutil dirty query c:

If the volume is reported as dirty -
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265

See: Manual steps to run Chkdsk at the command prompt
Run it with /f and /r switches.
You'll be informed that chkdsk could not be run now and do you want it
to run on a restart. Enter Y.
Exit the Command Prompt if it remains open by typing exit and pressing
Enter and restart now.
The length of the disk check will depend upon how large the drive is.

If hardware isn't the problem then it may mean that NAV has crippled
Windows as malware would. Then it's wipe and rebuild w/o any Symantec
product installed, thank you.

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============



Bob wrote:

> By "permanent reboot" I mean you're stuck on the page that says Windows
> didn't shut down properly and asks you to Boot normally, Boot from last good
> settings, Boot to safe Mode, etc. but no matter what you select you always
> bounce back to that screen. So I'm wondering if there is anyway to recover
> from that. I think Windows saves settings from several previous sessions and
> I'm wondering if getting to them would work. It may not if say the updates
> one made wiped out previous files that worked though.
>
> "MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>>Bob,
>>
>>Not quite sure what you mean when you refer to 'permanent reboot'.
>>You can see what any pending installations are by using the registry
>>editor: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555175
>>
>>See Method 11. As I mentioned previously, supposedly, NAV 2009 does not
>>have issues allowing file replacement as previous versions of NAV had.
>>But, that may just be part of Symantec's PR and not what happens in the
>>real world <w>
>>
>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
>>===============
>> *-343-* FDNY
>>Never Forgotten
>>===============
>>
>>
>>Bob wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That certainly makes sense to me. It's usually the recommendation by the
>>>software folks to disable NAV when installing or updating their programs. It
>>>is probably especially true when updating the Windows operating system
>>>software which NAV likes to keep a close eye on.
>>>
>>>I think before I use your procedure though I'll check out what Norton has to
>>>say. I'm using NAV 2009.
>>>
>>>Here's another question for you. Say you're stuck in permanent "reboot".
>>>Is there anyway to recover and go back to some previous "last good setting"?
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob,
>>>>
>>>>Your question here says it all:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
>>>>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
>>>>>it's the problem), etc.?
>>>>
>>>>Unless the latest version of NAV is installed, and I'm just going by
>>>>what Symantec puts out in news releases for it's latest Version of NAV,
>>>>then it's plain and simple a PITA when it comes to updating Windows with
>>>>it installed and/or actively monitoring the system.
>>>>What you're probably seeing is Windows attempting to remove a system
>>>>file that will be replaced by the update when the system restarts.
>>>>NAV 'thinks' it's guarding said files and so it struggles with Windows
>>>>over it. Unfortunately for most Norton Users, NAV 'wins' a pyhrric
>>>>victory which then screws up Windows.
>>>>
>>>>Either read the User Guides to completely and totally disable all
>>>>service and processes of NAV or, use MSConfig and Disable all 3rd party
>>>>services prior to any attempt to install updates.
>>>>
>>>>To access MSConfig, go to Start > Run > type in
>>>>
>>>>msconfig
>>>>
>>>>Click OK or press Enter
>>>>Click the Services tab. Put a check in the box at the bottom that states
>>>>" Hide all Microsoft Services "
>>>>UNcheck all of the boxes that show the service as Running.
>>>>Click Apply, End [ or, OK], and restart the system now.
>>>>The System Configuration Utility window will open when the system starts
>>>>up. Put a check in the box to not show it again, click OK.
>>>>
>>>>*** IF a 3rd party firewall has been Disabled make sure that the Windows
>>>>Firewall is now Enabled. ***
>>>>
>>>>Install the updates now and restart it.
>>>>Reopen MSConfig.
>>>>Click the Services tab and follow the same steps to *Check* the boxes
>>>>that were previously Disabled.
>>>>Click Apply, End [ or, OK]
>>>>Click NO to the prompt to restart or Exit and disable the native XP
>>>>firewall now if you've Enabled it.
>>>>Restart now.
>>>>The System Configuration Utility window will open again as before.
>>>>Put a check in the box to not show it again so it doesn't load on all
>>>>startups.
>>>>
>>>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
>>>>===============
>>>> *-343-* FDNY
>>>>Never Forgotten
>>>>===============
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have Windows XP Home SP3 and have had some problems restarting my laptop
>>>>>after updating. The problem I think might be in the "saved settings" as the
>>>>>computer shuts down and then reboots. There may be code saved in memory or
>>>>>on disk that doesn't match up with the updates and then I get the "black
>>>>>screen of death (I like to call it)" where I'm told Windows did not shut down
>>>>>properly. I try all the options but they never work. What I've started to
>>>>>do is, after the updates are installed, shut the computer down completely,
>>>>>wait awhile and then restart it. Most times it restarts normally sometimes I
>>>>>get the "Windows didn't shut down properly" message. Then I try "boot from
>>>>>last good..." or "boot normaly" and so far this procedure has worked but I'm
>>>>>afraid a time will come when I'm stuck with the black screen and in continual
>>>>>reboot.
>>>>>
>>>>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
>>>>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
>>>>>it's the problem), etc.?
>>>>>
>>>>>Note: I have had similar problems with other software updates such as HP's
>>>>>Photosmart software when, in it's update process, it automatically reboots.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks much.
>>>>

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008
Bob
 

Posts: n/a
Re: restart after update
I haven't run chkdsk for awhile but I can do that. It's a fairly new drive
so I don't think hardware is the problem. My approach at this point is to
assume NAV's the problem.

I actually had a second drive that I use as a "travel" drive that I had
cloned from the first drive and was going to update it before I went on a
trip. I didn't want to lose my business files should I get ripped off. Well
when I went thru the update process no matter what I did I could not recover
and was stuck on the reboot page. So, since I didn't have time to reclone
it, I used ACRONIS TrueImage Home to image my primary disk on it. I'll
probably try to clone the primary one in the future.

One just needs to take precautions when updating and at this point I think
that means disabling NAV. You usually have to do it when installing new
programs and probably should when updating as well. For the latest batch of
Windows XP updates I disabled NAV until restarting, installed the updates and
shut down the computer since I had a meeting to go to. This morning I had no
glitches starting it up. The next trial test may be to do the restart
instead of shutting it down completely.

Thanks for your input.

"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:

> Hate to bring it up, but ... what you're seeing *may* be stem from a
> hardware rather then software issue. Possibly the memory or Hard Drive.
> When's the last time you ran chkdsk ?
>
> Prior to running chkdsk open a Command Prompt and run
> the below
>
> fsutil dirty query c:
>
> If the volume is reported as dirty -
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265
>
> See: Manual steps to run Chkdsk at the command prompt
> Run it with /f and /r switches.
> You'll be informed that chkdsk could not be run now and do you want it
> to run on a restart. Enter Y.
> Exit the Command Prompt if it remains open by typing exit and pressing
> Enter and restart now.
> The length of the disk check will depend upon how large the drive is.
>
> If hardware isn't the problem then it may mean that NAV has crippled
> Windows as malware would. Then it's wipe and rebuild w/o any Symantec
> product installed, thank you.
>
> MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
> ===============
> *-343-* FDNY
> Never Forgotten
> ===============
>
>
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> > By "permanent reboot" I mean you're stuck on the page that says Windows
> > didn't shut down properly and asks you to Boot normally, Boot from last good
> > settings, Boot to safe Mode, etc. but no matter what you select you always
> > bounce back to that screen. So I'm wondering if there is anyway to recover
> > from that. I think Windows saves settings from several previous sessions and
> > I'm wondering if getting to them would work. It may not if say the updates
> > one made wiped out previous files that worked though.
> >
> > "MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Bob,
> >>
> >>Not quite sure what you mean when you refer to 'permanent reboot'.
> >>You can see what any pending installations are by using the registry
> >>editor: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555175
> >>
> >>See Method 11. As I mentioned previously, supposedly, NAV 2009 does not
> >>have issues allowing file replacement as previous versions of NAV had.
> >>But, that may just be part of Symantec's PR and not what happens in the
> >>real world <w>
> >>
> >>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
> >>===============
> >> *-343-* FDNY
> >>Never Forgotten
> >>===============
> >>
> >>
> >>Bob wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>That certainly makes sense to me. It's usually the recommendation by the
> >>>software folks to disable NAV when installing or updating their programs. It
> >>>is probably especially true when updating the Windows operating system
> >>>software which NAV likes to keep a close eye on.
> >>>
> >>>I think before I use your procedure though I'll check out what Norton has to
> >>>say. I'm using NAV 2009.
> >>>
> >>>Here's another question for you. Say you're stuck in permanent "reboot".
> >>>Is there anyway to recover and go back to some previous "last good setting"?
> >>>Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Bob,
> >>>>
> >>>>Your question here says it all:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
> >>>>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
> >>>>>it's the problem), etc.?
> >>>>
> >>>>Unless the latest version of NAV is installed, and I'm just going by
> >>>>what Symantec puts out in news releases for it's latest Version of NAV,
> >>>>then it's plain and simple a PITA when it comes to updating Windows with
> >>>>it installed and/or actively monitoring the system.
> >>>>What you're probably seeing is Windows attempting to remove a system
> >>>>file that will be replaced by the update when the system restarts.
> >>>>NAV 'thinks' it's guarding said files and so it struggles with Windows
> >>>>over it. Unfortunately for most Norton Users, NAV 'wins' a pyhrric
> >>>>victory which then screws up Windows.
> >>>>
> >>>>Either read the User Guides to completely and totally disable all
> >>>>service and processes of NAV or, use MSConfig and Disable all 3rd party
> >>>>services prior to any attempt to install updates.
> >>>>
> >>>>To access MSConfig, go to Start > Run > type in
> >>>>
> >>>>msconfig
> >>>>
> >>>>Click OK or press Enter
> >>>>Click the Services tab. Put a check in the box at the bottom that states
> >>>>" Hide all Microsoft Services "
> >>>>UNcheck all of the boxes that show the service as Running.
> >>>>Click Apply, End [ or, OK], and restart the system now.
> >>>>The System Configuration Utility window will open when the system starts
> >>>>up. Put a check in the box to not show it again, click OK.
> >>>>
> >>>>*** IF a 3rd party firewall has been Disabled make sure that the Windows
> >>>>Firewall is now Enabled. ***
> >>>>
> >>>>Install the updates now and restart it.
> >>>>Reopen MSConfig.
> >>>>Click the Services tab and follow the same steps to *Check* the boxes
> >>>>that were previously Disabled.
> >>>>Click Apply, End [ or, OK]
> >>>>Click NO to the prompt to restart or Exit and disable the native XP
> >>>>firewall now if you've Enabled it.
> >>>>Restart now.
> >>>>The System Configuration Utility window will open again as before.
> >>>>Put a check in the box to not show it again so it doesn't load on all
> >>>>startups.
> >>>>
> >>>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
> >>>>===============
> >>>> *-343-* FDNY
> >>>>Never Forgotten
> >>>>===============
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Bob wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I have Windows XP Home SP3 and have had some problems restarting my laptop
> >>>>>after updating. The problem I think might be in the "saved settings" as the
> >>>>>computer shuts down and then reboots. There may be code saved in memory or
> >>>>>on disk that doesn't match up with the updates and then I get the "black
> >>>>>screen of death (I like to call it)" where I'm told Windows did not shut down
> >>>>>properly. I try all the options but they never work. What I've started to
> >>>>>do is, after the updates are installed, shut the computer down completely,
> >>>>>wait awhile and then restart it. Most times it restarts normally sometimes I
> >>>>>get the "Windows didn't shut down properly" message. Then I try "boot from
> >>>>>last good..." or "boot normaly" and so far this procedure has worked but I'm
> >>>>>afraid a time will come when I'm stuck with the black screen and in continual
> >>>>>reboot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
> >>>>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
> >>>>>it's the problem), etc.?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Note: I have had similar problems with other software updates such as HP's
> >>>>>Photosmart software when, in it's update process, it automatically reboots.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks much.
> >>>>

>

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2008
MowGreen [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: restart after update
A worthwhile AV should not have to be disabled in order for the system
to update. Otherwise it's not much different from malware. In fact, some
malware variants clean up other malware infections and still allow the
system to update. The 'folks' who created them want the systems
connected and functioning so they can be used to spew spam, act as bots,
etc.

Glad to hear the updates have installed without a glitch so far. Let's
see if this behavior continues or if the previous issue appears again.
If it does, then a hardware issue may possibly have been the cause all
along.
Tell will time <w>

MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
===============
*-343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
===============


Bob wrote:

> I haven't run chkdsk for awhile but I can do that. It's a fairly new drive
> so I don't think hardware is the problem. My approach at this point is to
> assume NAV's the problem.
>
> I actually had a second drive that I use as a "travel" drive that I had
> cloned from the first drive and was going to update it before I went on a
> trip. I didn't want to lose my business files should I get ripped off. Well
> when I went thru the update process no matter what I did I could not recover
> and was stuck on the reboot page. So, since I didn't have time to reclone
> it, I used ACRONIS TrueImage Home to image my primary disk on it. I'll
> probably try to clone the primary one in the future.
>
> One just needs to take precautions when updating and at this point I think
> that means disabling NAV. You usually have to do it when installing new
> programs and probably should when updating as well. For the latest batch of
> Windows XP updates I disabled NAV until restarting, installed the updates and
> shut down the computer since I had a meeting to go to. This morning I had no
> glitches starting it up. The next trial test may be to do the restart
> instead of shutting it down completely.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> "MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>>Hate to bring it up, but ... what you're seeing *may* be stem from a
>>hardware rather then software issue. Possibly the memory or Hard Drive.
>>When's the last time you ran chkdsk ?
>>
>>Prior to running chkdsk open a Command Prompt and run
>>the below
>>
>>fsutil dirty query c:
>>
>>If the volume is reported as dirty -
>>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315265
>>
>>See: Manual steps to run Chkdsk at the command prompt
>>Run it with /f and /r switches.
>>You'll be informed that chkdsk could not be run now and do you want it
>>to run on a restart. Enter Y.
>>Exit the Command Prompt if it remains open by typing exit and pressing
>>Enter and restart now.
>>The length of the disk check will depend upon how large the drive is.
>>
>>If hardware isn't the problem then it may mean that NAV has crippled
>>Windows as malware would. Then it's wipe and rebuild w/o any Symantec
>>product installed, thank you.
>>
>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
>>===============
>> *-343-* FDNY
>>Never Forgotten
>>===============
>>
>>
>>
>>Bob wrote:
>>
>>
>>>By "permanent reboot" I mean you're stuck on the page that says Windows
>>>didn't shut down properly and asks you to Boot normally, Boot from last good
>>>settings, Boot to safe Mode, etc. but no matter what you select you always
>>>bounce back to that screen. So I'm wondering if there is anyway to recover
>>>from that. I think Windows saves settings from several previous sessions and
>>>I'm wondering if getting to them would work. It may not if say the updates
>>>one made wiped out previous files that worked though.
>>>
>>>"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob,
>>>>
>>>>Not quite sure what you mean when you refer to 'permanent reboot'.
>>>>You can see what any pending installations are by using the registry
>>>>editor: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555175
>>>>
>>>>See Method 11. As I mentioned previously, supposedly, NAV 2009 does not
>>>>have issues allowing file replacement as previous versions of NAV had.
>>>>But, that may just be part of Symantec's PR and not what happens in the
>>>>real world <w>
>>>>
>>>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
>>>>===============
>>>> *-343-* FDNY
>>>>Never Forgotten
>>>>===============
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>That certainly makes sense to me. It's usually the recommendation by the
>>>>>software folks to disable NAV when installing or updating their programs. It
>>>>>is probably especially true when updating the Windows operating system
>>>>>software which NAV likes to keep a close eye on.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think before I use your procedure though I'll check out what Norton has to
>>>>>say. I'm using NAV 2009.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here's another question for you. Say you're stuck in permanent "reboot".
>>>>>Is there anyway to recover and go back to some previous "last good setting"?
>>>>>Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>"MowGreen [MVP]" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Your question here says it all:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
>>>>>>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
>>>>>>>it's the problem), etc.?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Unless the latest version of NAV is installed, and I'm just going by
>>>>>>what Symantec puts out in news releases for it's latest Version of NAV,
>>>>>>then it's plain and simple a PITA when it comes to updating Windows with
>>>>>>it installed and/or actively monitoring the system.
>>>>>>What you're probably seeing is Windows attempting to remove a system
>>>>>>file that will be replaced by the update when the system restarts.
>>>>>>NAV 'thinks' it's guarding said files and so it struggles with Windows
>>>>>>over it. Unfortunately for most Norton Users, NAV 'wins' a pyhrric
>>>>>>victory which then screws up Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Either read the User Guides to completely and totally disable all
>>>>>>service and processes of NAV or, use MSConfig and Disable all 3rd party
>>>>>>services prior to any attempt to install updates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>To access MSConfig, go to Start > Run > type in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>msconfig
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Click OK or press Enter
>>>>>>Click the Services tab. Put a check in the box at the bottom that states
>>>>>>" Hide all Microsoft Services "
>>>>>>UNcheck all of the boxes that show the service as Running.
>>>>>>Click Apply, End [ or, OK], and restart the system now.
>>>>>>The System Configuration Utility window will open when the system starts
>>>>>>up. Put a check in the box to not show it again, click OK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>*** IF a 3rd party firewall has been Disabled make sure that the Windows
>>>>>>Firewall is now Enabled. ***
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Install the updates now and restart it.
>>>>>>Reopen MSConfig.
>>>>>>Click the Services tab and follow the same steps to *Check* the boxes
>>>>>>that were previously Disabled.
>>>>>>Click Apply, End [ or, OK]
>>>>>>Click NO to the prompt to restart or Exit and disable the native XP
>>>>>>firewall now if you've Enabled it.
>>>>>>Restart now.
>>>>>>The System Configuration Utility window will open again as before.
>>>>>>Put a check in the box to not show it again so it doesn't load on all
>>>>>>startups.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>MowGreen [MVP 2003-2009]
>>>>>>===============
>>>>>>*-343-* FDNY
>>>>>>Never Forgotten
>>>>>>===============
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have Windows XP Home SP3 and have had some problems restarting my laptop
>>>>>>>after updating. The problem I think might be in the "saved settings" as the
>>>>>>>computer shuts down and then reboots. There may be code saved in memory or
>>>>>>>on disk that doesn't match up with the updates and then I get the "black
>>>>>>>screen of death (I like to call it)" where I'm told Windows did not shut down
>>>>>>>properly. I try all the options but they never work. What I've started to
>>>>>>>do is, after the updates are installed, shut the computer down completely,
>>>>>>>wait awhile and then restart it. Most times it restarts normally sometimes I
>>>>>>>get the "Windows didn't shut down properly" message. Then I try "boot from
>>>>>>>last good..." or "boot normaly" and so far this procedure has worked but I'm
>>>>>>>afraid a time will come when I'm stuck with the black screen and in continual
>>>>>>>reboot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Does anyone know of "known problems" like this or precautions one should
>>>>>>>take when updating, e.g. disabling Norton Antivirus (although I'm not sure
>>>>>>>it's the problem), etc.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Note: I have had similar problems with other software updates such as HP's
>>>>>>>Photosmart software when, in it's update process, it automatically reboots.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks much.
>>>>>>

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