WGA Validation Tool

You're an MCSE and hold five other certs, yet you think it's a good idea and
a wise investment of your time to wipe & reload annually? I see...

You sure ask a lot of questions for an experienced MCSE.



Joe wrote:
> Thank you again for your responses. Although your response was a bit
> long-winded & littered with judgemental red herrings, I was able to sort
> out
> the information I needed, & yes -- you've helped me to resolve my
> questions:
> IE7 no longer needs validation (I downloaded the latest release
> [5-06-2008]
> to ensure this, MP11 will, & no need to download any WGA Tools for manual
> installation. As a fellow Microsoft professional, may I suggest that you
> focus less on whether or not I "should" wipe my HD every year & also stay
> away from all the extra "do this" & "don't do that" advice. As an MCSE
> with
> five other certs, I am fully aware about keeping my system & programs
> patched. I don't like auto-updates, & MP11 is far superior to MP10. The
> "if
> it aint broke don't fix it" attitude started with military folks (first
> AF,
> then Navy) & was based on techs not wanting to do Preventive Maintenance
> on
> machinery (i.e., they were lazy). I am a Preventative kind of guy, so "up
> to
> me" if I want to organize my HD in a very clean & efficient manner, & also
> "up to me" if I want to control my own i-Net bandwidth & & turn off auto
> updating. Thank you again.
>
>> You and I discussed most of this when you did your annual rebuild a few
>> years ago, didn't we? It's either that or I'm having a case of déjÃ* vu.
>> [And I still don't understand why you bother with these annual rebuilds.
>> You're not running Win98 anymore.]
>>
>> 1. If you're using the latest installer download, you will not have to
>> Validate when installing IE7. (Yes, this is a new policy.)
>>
>> 2. If you install IE7 and then install SP3, you will NOT be able to
>> uninstall the former (should the need arise) without first uninstalling
>> the
>> latter, hence my recommendation to install SP3 before IE7. See
>> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/200...and-xpsp3.aspx
>>
>> 3. AFAIK you only have to Validate when downloading the installer for
>> WMP11. Check with the experts in microsoft.public.windowsmedia.player
>> newsgroup to confirm this. Neither KB892130 nor KB905474 have anything
>> to
>> do with this online Validation, IIRC. [I've stuck with WMP10 here: "If
>> it
>> ain't broke, don't fix it."]
>>
>> 4a. KB892130 is an ActiveX Control that's ONLY required if you want to
>> use
>> Windows Update website to check for and install updates; it is NOT
>> required
>> to use Automatic Updates to keep the machine fully patched.
>>
>> 4b. KB905474 (WGA Notifications) is NOT required for anything, period.
>> --
>> ~PA Bear
>>
>>
>> Joe wrote:
>>> PA Bear, I really appreciate your patience & fast response. I didn't
>>> mean
>>> to
>>> confuse you: my WXP Professional CD does not include SP1, I purchased
>>> SP2
>>> from Microsoft, & I downloaded a SP3 ISO & burned it to CD; I didn't
>>> mention
>>> all this because it's sort of a red herring to my question(s). I have
>>> downloaded redistributables of most of the stuff I need (e.g., .NET 3.5,
>>> .NET
>>> 1.1, auxiliary programs, utilities, & the prior mentioned IE7 & MP11. As
>>> my
>>> ADSL connection is barely faster than dial-up (all I can get in Udon
>>> Thani,
>>> Thailand), I try to maximize my annual rebuild process by minimizing the
>>> time I spend downloading updates. Which brings us back to these points:
>>> (a)
>>> IE7 (when I did my rebuild last year, IE7 required validation) & MP11
>>> both
>>> require validation prior to install, (b) SP3 will provide updates to the
>>> versions of IE & MP installed, (c) I do not want to connect to the i-Net
>>> until later in the game (i.e., I have found that you can get much
>>> cleaner
>>> set-ups when no third-party "monitors" are at work). So my question:
>>> will
>>> WGA Validation Tool (KB905474) allow installation of IE7 & MP11?
>>>
>>> Joe Davis
>>>
>>>> You're making this /much/ more complicated than it is.
>>>>
>>>> 1) If the reinstall of Windows will give you WinXP Gold, manually
>>>> install
>>>> SP2 first, then SP3; If the reinstall of Windows will give you WinXP
>>>> SP1,
>>>> skip straight to a manual install of SP3.
>>>>
>>>> Download WinXP SP2:
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...5-9e368d3cdb5a
>>>>
>>>> Download WinXP SP3:
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...8-1e1555d4f3d4
>>>>
>>>> WinXP SP3 (and SP2) - Read all prerequisites for a successful
>>>> installation
>>>>
>>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/harrywaldron...tallation.aspx
>>>>
>>>> 2) Now download WMP 11 for manual installation:
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...8-5166114010ca
>>>>
>>>> NB: Requires Validating but Validating does NOT require installing
>>>> KB892130
>>>> or KB905474!
>>>>
>>>> 3) Now install IE7 (which does NOT require Validation). Required
>>>> reading
>>>> IMHO before installing IE7:
>>>>
>>>> Sandi's Installation Tips <= Steps #1-8, #10 & #11; take note of #12,
>>>> then
>>>> STOP!
>>>> http://www.ie-vista.com/known_issues.html#pre-install
>>>> (ignore any references to Vista)
>>>>
>>>> And I strongly recommend using
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/dow.../getitnow.mspx as the
>>>> installation source, not Automatic/Windows Update.
>>>>
>>>> Alternately, use this Direct Download link:
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...0-081805b2f90b
>>>>
>>>> Tip: Save the installer to your desktop, do not Run it.
>>>>
>>>> IEBlog : IE7 Installation and Anti-Malware Applications
>>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/200...lications.aspx
>>>>
>>>> What's New in Internet Explorer 7
>>>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms649487.aspx
>>>>
>>>> Release Notes
>>>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/Aa740486.aspx
>>>>
>>>> IMPORTANT! =>
>>>>
>>>> IE and Windows XP Service Pack 3
>>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/200...and-xpsp3.aspx
>>>>
>>>> 4) Check in at http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com and install any
>>>> critical
>>>> updates offered. If all updates fail to install, see
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144
>>>>
>>>> NB: You WILL have to install KB892130 in order to use Windows Update
>>>> website. KB905474 is and will remain an optional update.
>>>>
>>>> 5) Last but not least, make sure Automatic Updates is enabled so the
>>>> machine
>>>> remains fully patched (cf. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306525).
>>>> --
>>>> ~PA Bear
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>> PA Bear, since the two tools are different, does that mean I should be
>>>>> able
>>>>> to use WGA Validation Tool (KB905474) to validate IE7 & MP11 prior to
>>>>> activating Windows?
>>>> <paste>
>>>>> Thanks for your reply, PA Bear. Would you perhaps have a link to a
>>>>> manual
>>>>> download site for "WGA Validation Tool (KB892130)"? Re: your question,
>>>>> I
>>>>> will clean-install WXP, followed by a separate install of SP2. If I
>>>>> can
>>>>> obtain the WGA Tool I'm seeking, then I'll install it next followed by
>>>>> IE7
>>>>> & MP11. If not, then I'll go straight to SP3. I do not want to
>>>>> activate
>>>>> (no
>>>>> connections to the i-Net) until after I've installed NIS 2008, which
>>>>> is
>>>>> why
>>>>> I want to manually install the WGA Tool.
>>>> </paste>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I recently visited Windows Update, which required me to download &
>>>>>>> install
>>>>>>> WGA Validation Tool (KB892130) before proceeding. The only manual
>>>>>>> WGA
>>>>>>> Tool
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> could find to download was referenced as KB905474 (12-14-2007). Are
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> two programs the same?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No. The former must be downloaded/installed to be able to use
>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>> Update website.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...I want to wipe my HD next week & reinstall
>>>>>>> everything. My plan is to follow this order: WXP Pro, SP2, MP11,
>>>>>>> IE7,
>>>>>>> &
>>>>>>> SP3, followed by other programs & finally NIS2008.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will the reinstall give you WinXP or WinXP SP2?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Keep this handy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Updates are not installed successfully from Windows Update, from
>>>>>> Microsoft
>>>>>> Update, or by using Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP
>>>>>> installation:
>>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NB: Also applies to clean installs, upgrade installs, and Recovery
>>>>>> installs. --
>>>>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>>>>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
>>>>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
>>>>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe wrote:
>>>>>>> I recently visited Windows Update, which required me to download &
>>>>>>> install
>>>>>>> WGA Validation Tool (KB892130) before proceeding. The only manual
>>>>>>> WGA
>>>>>>> Tool
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> could find to download was referenced as KB905474 (12-14-2007). Are
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> two programs the same? I want to wipe my HD next week & reinstall
>>>>>>> everything. My plan is to follow this order: WXP Pro, SP2, MP11,
>>>>>>> IE7,
>>>>>>> &
>>>>>>> SP3, followed by other programs & finally NIS2008. My problem is
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> IE7
>>>>>>> &
>>>>>>> MP11 require WGA validation before allowing installtion. So if I can
>>>>>>> manually install the correct WGA Tool, then I'll be fine. Of course,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> could wait to install IE7 & MP11 until after validation, but then
>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>> the SP3-included updates (SP3 updates are geared to the specific
>>>>>>> versions
>>>>>>> of the programs in use). Thanks to anyone who knows -- & shares with
>>>>>>> me --
>>>>>>> the answer.

PA Bear, you are trying so hard to be confrontational; I wonder if the
Microsoft folks who hired you know how judgemental & condensending you are on
these forums. Are you trying to intimidate me from finding answers to my
problems? I may be 52, but the fact that I can still learn should make me
appear worthy of helping, rather than ostrasizing. When an annoyance creeps
up, I tend to ask questions (being a MCSE does not mean I know everything;
I'm not that arrogant). Regarding my choice to wipe my hard drive annually,
I've laid out my reasons to you in a prior thread & don't particularly
understand your resistance to me -- someone who's not you -- carrying out
this feat. In truth, if you did some personal research on the subject, I
suspect you'll find that more hard-core techs wipe their drives periodically
than not (e.g., OS decay, superceded third-party security programs, etc.). I
admit that I do not do this nor recommend this to friends whom I help, but
"my system" (i.e., note my pride here) is as clean & error-free as possible.
PA Bear, if you can't refrain from trying to make yourself sound & feel
superior (even to MCSEs) AND if you cannot stop your condensation of techs
whom may be more proactive & attentive than you are, then please do not
respond to any more of my queries. You helped me on the WGA question, but I
felt the ordeal was like having a tooth extrated with strings. AND you've
given absolutely NO suggestions regarding the topic of this thread. What a
complete waste of time!
--
Joe Davis


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> You're an MCSE and hold five other certs, yet you think it's a good idea and
> a wise investment of your time to wipe & reload annually? I see...
>
> You sure ask a lot of questions for an experienced MCSE.
>
>
>
> Joe wrote:
> > Thank you again for your responses. Although your response was a bit
> > long-winded & littered with judgemental red herrings, I was able to sort
> > out
> > the information I needed, & yes -- you've helped me to resolve my
> > questions:
> > IE7 no longer needs validation (I downloaded the latest release
> > [5-06-2008]
> > to ensure this, MP11 will, & no need to download any WGA Tools for manual
> > installation. As a fellow Microsoft professional, may I suggest that you
> > focus less on whether or not I "should" wipe my HD every year & also stay
> > away from all the extra "do this" & "don't do that" advice. As an MCSE
> > with
> > five other certs, I am fully aware about keeping my system & programs
> > patched. I don't like auto-updates, & MP11 is far superior to MP10. The
> > "if
> > it aint broke don't fix it" attitude started with military folks (first
> > AF,
> > then Navy) & was based on techs not wanting to do Preventive Maintenance
> > on
> > machinery (i.e., they were lazy). I am a Preventative kind of guy, so "up
> > to
> > me" if I want to organize my HD in a very clean & efficient manner, & also
> > "up to me" if I want to control my own i-Net bandwidth & & turn off auto
> > updating. Thank you again.
> >
> >> You and I discussed most of this when you did your annual rebuild a few
> >> years ago, didn't we? It's either that or I'm having a case of déjÃ* vu.
> >> [And I still don't understand why you bother with these annual rebuilds.
> >> You're not running Win98 anymore.]
> >>
> >> 1. If you're using the latest installer download, you will not have to
> >> Validate when installing IE7. (Yes, this is a new policy.)
> >>
> >> 2. If you install IE7 and then install SP3, you will NOT be able to
> >> uninstall the former (should the need arise) without first uninstalling
> >> the
> >> latter, hence my recommendation to install SP3 before IE7. See
> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/200...and-xpsp3.aspx
> >>
> >> 3. AFAIK you only have to Validate when downloading the installer for
> >> WMP11. Check with the experts in microsoft.public.windowsmedia.player
> >> newsgroup to confirm this. Neither KB892130 nor KB905474 have anything
> >> to
> >> do with this online Validation, IIRC. [I've stuck with WMP10 here: "If
> >> it
> >> ain't broke, don't fix it."]
> >>
> >> 4a. KB892130 is an ActiveX Control that's ONLY required if you want to
> >> use
> >> Windows Update website to check for and install updates; it is NOT
> >> required
> >> to use Automatic Updates to keep the machine fully patched.
> >>
> >> 4b. KB905474 (WGA Notifications) is NOT required for anything, period.
> >> --
> >> ~PA Bear
> >>
> >>
> >> Joe wrote:
> >>> PA Bear, I really appreciate your patience & fast response. I didn't
> >>> mean
> >>> to
> >>> confuse you: my WXP Professional CD does not include SP1, I purchased
> >>> SP2
> >>> from Microsoft, & I downloaded a SP3 ISO & burned it to CD; I didn't
> >>> mention
> >>> all this because it's sort of a red herring to my question(s). I have
> >>> downloaded redistributables of most of the stuff I need (e.g., .NET 3.5,
> >>> .NET
> >>> 1.1, auxiliary programs, utilities, & the prior mentioned IE7 & MP11. As
> >>> my
> >>> ADSL connection is barely faster than dial-up (all I can get in Udon
> >>> Thani,
> >>> Thailand), I try to maximize my annual rebuild process by minimizing the
> >>> time I spend downloading updates. Which brings us back to these points:
> >>> (a)
> >>> IE7 (when I did my rebuild last year, IE7 required validation) & MP11
> >>> both
> >>> require validation prior to install, (b) SP3 will provide updates to the
> >>> versions of IE & MP installed, (c) I do not want to connect to the i-Net
> >>> until later in the game (i.e., I have found that you can get much
> >>> cleaner
> >>> set-ups when no third-party "monitors" are at work). So my question:
> >>> will
> >>> WGA Validation Tool (KB905474) allow installation of IE7 & MP11?
> >>>
> >>> Joe Davis
> >>>
> >>>> You're making this /much/ more complicated than it is.
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) If the reinstall of Windows will give you WinXP Gold, manually
> >>>> install
> >>>> SP2 first, then SP3; If the reinstall of Windows will give you WinXP
> >>>> SP1,
> >>>> skip straight to a manual install of SP3.
> >>>>
> >>>> Download WinXP SP2:
> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...5-9e368d3cdb5a
> >>>>
> >>>> Download WinXP SP3:
> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...8-1e1555d4f3d4
> >>>>
> >>>> WinXP SP3 (and SP2) - Read all prerequisites for a successful
> >>>> installation
> >>>>
> >>>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/harrywaldron...tallation.aspx
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) Now download WMP 11 for manual installation:
> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...8-5166114010ca
> >>>>
> >>>> NB: Requires Validating but Validating does NOT require installing
> >>>> KB892130
> >>>> or KB905474!
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) Now install IE7 (which does NOT require Validation). Required
> >>>> reading
> >>>> IMHO before installing IE7:
> >>>>
> >>>> Sandi's Installation Tips <= Steps #1-8, #10 & #11; take note of #12,
> >>>> then
> >>>> STOP!
> >>>> http://www.ie-vista.com/known_issues.html#pre-install
> >>>> (ignore any references to Vista)
> >>>>
> >>>> And I strongly recommend using
> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/dow.../getitnow.mspx as the
> >>>> installation source, not Automatic/Windows Update.
> >>>>
> >>>> Alternately, use this Direct Download link:
> >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...0-081805b2f90b
> >>>>
> >>>> Tip: Save the installer to your desktop, do not Run it.
> >>>>
> >>>> IEBlog : IE7 Installation and Anti-Malware Applications
> >>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/200...lications.aspx
> >>>>
> >>>> What's New in Internet Explorer 7
> >>>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms649487.aspx
> >>>>
> >>>> Release Notes
> >>>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/Aa740486.aspx
> >>>>
> >>>> IMPORTANT! =>
> >>>>
> >>>> IE and Windows XP Service Pack 3
> >>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/200...and-xpsp3.aspx
> >>>>
> >>>> 4) Check in at http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com and install any
> >>>> critical
> >>>> updates offered. If all updates fail to install, see
> >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144
> >>>>
> >>>> NB: You WILL have to install KB892130 in order to use Windows Update
> >>>> website. KB905474 is and will remain an optional update.
> >>>>
> >>>> 5) Last but not least, make sure Automatic Updates is enabled so the
> >>>> machine
> >>>> remains fully patched (cf. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306525).
> >>>> --
> >>>> ~PA Bear
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe wrote:
> >>>>> PA Bear, since the two tools are different, does that mean I should be
> >>>>> able
> >>>>> to use WGA Validation Tool (KB905474) to validate IE7 & MP11 prior to
> >>>>> activating Windows?
> >>>> <paste>
> >>>>> Thanks for your reply, PA Bear. Would you perhaps have a link to a
> >>>>> manual
> >>>>> download site for "WGA Validation Tool (KB892130)"? Re: your question,
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> will clean-install WXP, followed by a separate install of SP2. If I
> >>>>> can
> >>>>> obtain the WGA Tool I'm seeking, then I'll install it next followed by
> >>>>> IE7
> >>>>> & MP11. If not, then I'll go straight to SP3. I do not want to
> >>>>> activate
> >>>>> (no
> >>>>> connections to the i-Net) until after I've installed NIS 2008, which
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> why
> >>>>> I want to manually install the WGA Tool.
> >>>> </paste>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> I recently visited Windows Update, which required me to download &
> >>>>>>> install
> >>>>>>> WGA Validation Tool (KB892130) before proceeding. The only manual
> >>>>>>> WGA
> >>>>>>> Tool
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>> could find to download was referenced as KB905474 (12-14-2007). Are
> >>>>>>> these
> >>>>>>> two programs the same?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> No. The former must be downloaded/installed to be able to use
> >>>>>> Windows
> >>>>>> Update website.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ...I want to wipe my HD next week & reinstall
> >>>>>>> everything. My plan is to follow this order: WXP Pro, SP2, MP11,
> >>>>>>> IE7,
> >>>>>>> &
> >>>>>>> SP3, followed by other programs & finally NIS2008.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Will the reinstall give you WinXP or WinXP SP2?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Keep this handy:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Updates are not installed successfully from Windows Update, from
> >>>>>> Microsoft
> >>>>>> Update, or by using Automatic Updates after you repair a Windows XP
> >>>>>> installation:
> >>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/943144
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> NB: Also applies to clean installs, upgrade installs, and Recovery
> >>>>>> installs. --
> >>>>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> >>>>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
> >>>>>> AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
> >>>>>> DTS-L http://dts-l.net/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Joe wrote:
> >>>>>>> I recently visited Windows Update, which required me to download &
> >>>>>>> install
> >>>>>>> WGA Validation Tool (KB892130) before proceeding. The only manual
> >>>>>>> WGA
> >>>>>>> Tool
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>> could find to download was referenced as KB905474 (12-14-2007). Are
> >>>>>>> these
> >>>>>>> two programs the same? I want to wipe my HD next week & reinstall
> >>>>>>> everything. My plan is to follow this order: WXP Pro, SP2, MP11,
> >>>>>>> IE7,
> >>>>>>> &
> >>>>>>> SP3, followed by other programs & finally NIS2008. My problem is
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> IE7
> >>>>>>> &
> >>>>>>> MP11 require WGA validation before allowing installtion. So if I can
> >>>>>>> manually install the correct WGA Tool, then I'll be fine. Of course,
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>> could wait to install IE7 & MP11 until after validation, but then
> >>>>>>> I'd
> >>>>>>> lose
> >>>>>>> the SP3-included updates (SP3 updates are geared to the specific
> >>>>>>> versions
> >>>>>>> of the programs in use). Thanks to anyone who knows -- & shares with
> >>>>>>> me --
> >>>>>>> the answer.
>
>

Joe wrote:
> PA Bear, you are trying so hard to be confrontational...

A careful review of this thread suggests the pot is calling the kettle
black. You asked for assistance, I offered my suggestions and
recommendations, then you act insulted that I did so.

> I wonder if the
> Microsoft folks who hired you know how judgemental & condensending you are
> on these forums.

MS MVPs are NOT employed by Microsoft nor do we represent Microsoft. We
VOLUNTEER our time in newsgroups, forums and user groups to assist others.
See http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpexecsum

PS: Your spiel chukker's broke

<plonk>

My bust: the "waste of time" comment I made in my last reply was referring to
your OT remarks in my "Red X" thread.

I asked for specific advise, not verbal abuse. And questioning my abilities
as an MCSE is not only uncalled for, it's downright obnoxious.

It's wonderful that you offer your time to help others. A good way to win
the admiration, respect, & gratitude of those you're helping & avoid ruffling
feathers is to focus your energies on people's questions rather than
condensend in an attempt to redirect their efforts. It's just not
professional.
--
Joe Davis


"PA Bear [MS MVP]" wrote:

> Joe wrote:
> > PA Bear, you are trying so hard to be confrontational...
>
> A careful review of this thread suggests the pot is calling the kettle
> black. You asked for assistance, I offered my suggestions and
> recommendations, then you act insulted that I did so.
>
> > I wonder if the
> > Microsoft folks who hired you know how judgemental & condensending you are
> > on these forums.
>
> MS MVPs are NOT employed by Microsoft nor do we represent Microsoft. We
> VOLUNTEER our time in newsgroups, forums and user groups to assist others.
> See http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpexecsum
>
> PS: Your spiel chukker's broke
>
> <plonk>
>
>