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Vista reboot screen disaster

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2007
Dale
 

Posts: n/a
Vista reboot screen disaster
Last night, I installed several updates on my Vista X64 Ultimate workstation.
Afterwards, Windows Update wanted to do a reboot. I closed the reboot
window without rebooting. I don't remember exactly the options that were
there, most likely something abuot prompting me later.

Because this workstation runs about 8 Virtual PCs, rebooting is a chore. I
have to make sure that all the Virtual PCs are shut down or not doing
anything where data will be lost.

I was typing in one of the virtual machines last night when, out of the
corner of my eye, I saw this yellow and white flash that I recognized as the
reboot reminder popped up and immediately disappeared. Suddenly my
workstation was rebooting. Whatever I was typing in the virtual machine had
hit the keystrokes that the reboot reminder was looking for to execute the
reboot.

These reboot windows definitely should not have shortcut keys. Rebooting my
Vista workstation without properly shutting down the virtual PCs has caused
significant data loss.

Dale
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2007
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista reboot screen disaster
Dale;
Change your update settings.
It sees right now you have the top selection set and that includes
rebooting if necessary.
The other options will not reboot until you allow the updates to
install or you install the updates.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar


"Dale" <dale0973@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:9077CAA2-C5F4-456D-9813-8209E7768EC3@microsoft.com...
> Last night, I installed several updates on my Vista X64 Ultimate
> workstation.
> Afterwards, Windows Update wanted to do a reboot. I closed the
> reboot
> window without rebooting. I don't remember exactly the options that
> were
> there, most likely something abuot prompting me later.
>
> Because this workstation runs about 8 Virtual PCs, rebooting is a
> chore. I
> have to make sure that all the Virtual PCs are shut down or not
> doing
> anything where data will be lost.
>
> I was typing in one of the virtual machines last night when, out of
> the
> corner of my eye, I saw this yellow and white flash that I
> recognized as the
> reboot reminder popped up and immediately disappeared. Suddenly my
> workstation was rebooting. Whatever I was typing in the virtual
> machine had
> hit the keystrokes that the reboot reminder was looking for to
> execute the
> reboot.
>
> These reboot windows definitely should not have shortcut keys.
> Rebooting my
> Vista workstation without properly shutting down the virtual PCs has
> caused
> significant data loss.
>
> Dale


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2007
Dale
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista reboot screen disaster
Jupiter,

I had already set the group policy to prevent automatic reboots. But that
only prevents them if no administrator has an active desktop session. If an
administrator is logged in, then the notifications occur - shortcut keys and
all.

After this fiasco, I also set the reminder time to the maximum of 1440
minutes. That will significantly reduce the likelihood of this happening
again but, if I am typing at the time the reminder comes 1440 minutes (24
hours) later.

The 1440 minutes seems rather arbitrary, as well. It can easily take up to
a week before I can do a reboot on some virtual PCs.


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote:

> Dale;
> Change your update settings.
> It sees right now you have the top selection set and that includes
> rebooting if necessary.
> The other options will not reboot until you allow the updates to
> install or you install the updates.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>
>
> "Dale" <dale0973@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
> news:9077CAA2-C5F4-456D-9813-8209E7768EC3@microsoft.com...
> > Last night, I installed several updates on my Vista X64 Ultimate
> > workstation.
> > Afterwards, Windows Update wanted to do a reboot. I closed the
> > reboot
> > window without rebooting. I don't remember exactly the options that
> > were
> > there, most likely something abuot prompting me later.
> >
> > Because this workstation runs about 8 Virtual PCs, rebooting is a
> > chore. I
> > have to make sure that all the Virtual PCs are shut down or not
> > doing
> > anything where data will be lost.
> >
> > I was typing in one of the virtual machines last night when, out of
> > the
> > corner of my eye, I saw this yellow and white flash that I
> > recognized as the
> > reboot reminder popped up and immediately disappeared. Suddenly my
> > workstation was rebooting. Whatever I was typing in the virtual
> > machine had
> > hit the keystrokes that the reboot reminder was looking for to
> > execute the
> > reboot.
> >
> > These reboot windows definitely should not have shortcut keys.
> > Rebooting my
> > Vista workstation without properly shutting down the virtual PCs has
> > caused
> > significant data loss.
> >
> > Dale

>

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2007
Dale
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista reboot screen disaster
Oh, one more thing. On this workstation, I have automatic updates configured
to notify me before downloading and before installing. I had manually
approved the installation of those updates.

Dale

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote:

> Dale;
> Change your update settings.
> It sees right now you have the top selection set and that includes
> rebooting if necessary.
> The other options will not reboot until you allow the updates to
> install or you install the updates.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>
>
> "Dale" <dale0973@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
> news:9077CAA2-C5F4-456D-9813-8209E7768EC3@microsoft.com...
> > Last night, I installed several updates on my Vista X64 Ultimate
> > workstation.
> > Afterwards, Windows Update wanted to do a reboot. I closed the
> > reboot
> > window without rebooting. I don't remember exactly the options that
> > were
> > there, most likely something abuot prompting me later.
> >
> > Because this workstation runs about 8 Virtual PCs, rebooting is a
> > chore. I
> > have to make sure that all the Virtual PCs are shut down or not
> > doing
> > anything where data will be lost.
> >
> > I was typing in one of the virtual machines last night when, out of
> > the
> > corner of my eye, I saw this yellow and white flash that I
> > recognized as the
> > reboot reminder popped up and immediately disappeared. Suddenly my
> > workstation was rebooting. Whatever I was typing in the virtual
> > machine had
> > hit the keystrokes that the reboot reminder was looking for to
> > execute the
> > reboot.
> >
> > These reboot windows definitely should not have shortcut keys.
> > Rebooting my
> > Vista workstation without properly shutting down the virtual PCs has
> > caused
> > significant data loss.
> >
> > Dale

>

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2007
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista reboot screen disaster
Dale;
That was your mistake.
Do not install updates until you already know a reboot will be
possible soon.
The updates are not necessarily fully installed until after a reboot.
And the protection/benefit of the updates may not be available until
after the reboot.

24 hours is probably unacceptable, a week is out of the question.
You absolutely should not sit on installed updates waiting for a
reboot for that long.
Since updates are normally released on the 2nd Tuesday of the month,
you should plan accordingly.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar


"Dale" <dale0973@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:22D41529-56F2-4F7E-8649-C87C84F26054@microsoft.com...
> Oh, one more thing. On this workstation, I have automatic updates
> configured
> to notify me before downloading and before installing. I had
> manually
> approved the installation of those updates.
>
> Dale


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2007
PNutts
 

Posts: n/a
RE: Vista reboot screen disaster
I'm curious. If rebooting is an issue, why install the updates at a time when
a reboot wasn't convenient? If the update requires a reboot, you will most
likely not receive the benefit of that update until the reboot so installing
without planning a reboot soon is puzzling.

Also, you've wandered into an area that I feel has high risk. Microsoft has
put a lot of effort into allowing you control of the installations of updates
and it appears rock solid. However, once you've done that you are moved into
a secondary subsystem who's responsiblity is to nag you to reboot and/or
reboot for you. I can't vouch for the stability of that subsystem, but you've
(unfortunately) discovered that you may have less control over that subsystem
than the first. It may not be much of a solution and definitely no comfort at
this point, but my over simplification of the scenario and to reduce my
personal head-banging-against-the-wall would be to avoid the "I'm here to
automatically reboot you" subsystem altogether if my data integrity relied on
no reboots.

Notice I've avoided the debate of shutting down virtual PC's is really a
"chore" when done to prevent data loss, and also avoided the topic of
backups. Hopefully the data loss is recoverable.

"Dale" wrote:

> Last night, I installed several updates on my Vista X64 Ultimate workstation.
> Afterwards, Windows Update wanted to do a reboot. I closed the reboot
> window without rebooting. I don't remember exactly the options that were
> there, most likely something abuot prompting me later.
>
> Because this workstation runs about 8 Virtual PCs, rebooting is a chore. I
> have to make sure that all the Virtual PCs are shut down or not doing
> anything where data will be lost.
>
> I was typing in one of the virtual machines last night when, out of the
> corner of my eye, I saw this yellow and white flash that I recognized as the
> reboot reminder popped up and immediately disappeared. Suddenly my
> workstation was rebooting. Whatever I was typing in the virtual machine had
> hit the keystrokes that the reboot reminder was looking for to execute the
> reboot.
>
> These reboot windows definitely should not have shortcut keys. Rebooting my
> Vista workstation without properly shutting down the virtual PCs has caused
> significant data loss.
>
> Dale

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2007
Dale
 

Posts: n/a
RE: Vista reboot screen disaster
Thanks for your feedback. Responses inline.

Dale

"PNutts" wrote:

> I'm curious. If rebooting is an issue, why install the updates at a time when
> a reboot wasn't convenient? If the update requires a reboot, you will most
> likely not receive the benefit of that update until the reboot so installing
> without planning a reboot soon is puzzling.


Why not install them now? It is never clear what updates will require a
reboot and which ones will not. The update description in WSUS states that
the update may require you to restart your system. It doesn't say will
require. It is pretty common to have some PCs not require a reboot for an
update that does require a reboot on other PCs.

In either case, the update needs to be "installed" or at least prepared for
install on the next reboot - whether I reboot now or later. Besides, I
expect to get a notification about the reboot. I just don't expect that
notification to capture keystrokes intended for another program.

There is not even anything in the notification that implies a shortcut key -
no underline or other indication. And oddly, the shortcut key that triggers
the Reboot Now button is the N key, of all things.

>
> Also, you've wandered into an area that I feel has high risk. Microsoft has
> put a lot of effort into allowing you control of the installations of updates
> and it appears rock solid.


It's not exactly rock solid; hence the need for this newsgroup. It is,
though, mostly reliable in my experience.

>However, once you've done that you are moved into
> a secondary subsystem who's responsiblity is to nag you to reboot and/or
> reboot for you. I can't vouch for the stability of that subsystem, but you've
> (unfortunately) discovered that you may have less control over that subsystem
> than the first.



My main point is simply that those windows should not have shortcut keys on
the reboot button. But then, that issue exists in Vista in general, where
system critical steps like rebooting or shutting down have been changed to
single-click and unstoppable operations.


>It may not be much of a solution and definitely no comfort at
> this point, but my over simplification of the scenario and to reduce my
> personal head-banging-against-the-wall would be to avoid the "I'm here to
> automatically reboot you" subsystem altogether if my data integrity relied on
> no reboots.
>
> Notice I've avoided the debate of shutting down virtual PC's is really a
> "chore" when done to prevent data loss, and also avoided the topic of
> backups. Hopefully the data loss is recoverable.


The data loss was recoverable. All my PCs are backed up and have System
Restore. What was lost was a couple hours work done in that session. Also,
a couple of the PCs had programs that would not run after the forced shutdown
- programs that were running when the shutdown occurred. After
re-installation did not fix the issues, rather than troubleshoot further, I
simply restored a system checkpoint and all was good. Still, it was a few
more hours lost resolving that.

>
> "Dale" wrote:
>
> > Last night, I installed several updates on my Vista X64 Ultimate workstation.
> > Afterwards, Windows Update wanted to do a reboot. I closed the reboot
> > window without rebooting. I don't remember exactly the options that were
> > there, most likely something abuot prompting me later.
> >
> > Because this workstation runs about 8 Virtual PCs, rebooting is a chore. I
> > have to make sure that all the Virtual PCs are shut down or not doing
> > anything where data will be lost.
> >
> > I was typing in one of the virtual machines last night when, out of the
> > corner of my eye, I saw this yellow and white flash that I recognized as the
> > reboot reminder popped up and immediately disappeared. Suddenly my
> > workstation was rebooting. Whatever I was typing in the virtual machine had
> > hit the keystrokes that the reboot reminder was looking for to execute the
> > reboot.
> >
> > These reboot windows definitely should not have shortcut keys. Rebooting my
> > Vista workstation without properly shutting down the virtual PCs has caused
> > significant data loss.
> >
> > Dale

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2007
Dale
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista reboot screen disaster
Thanks. You are right about the lesson to be learned. Because of the
shortcomings in the UI for Automatic Updates, I will have to be prepared for
a reboot that is beyond my control.

Thanks again for your help,


Dale


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote:

> Dale;
> That was your mistake.
> Do not install updates until you already know a reboot will be
> possible soon.
> The updates are not necessarily fully installed until after a reboot.
> And the protection/benefit of the updates may not be available until
> after the reboot.
>
> 24 hours is probably unacceptable, a week is out of the question.
> You absolutely should not sit on installed updates waiting for a
> reboot for that long.
> Since updates are normally released on the 2nd Tuesday of the month,
> you should plan accordingly.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
>
>
> "Dale" <dale0973@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
> news:22D41529-56F2-4F7E-8649-C87C84F26054@microsoft.com...
> > Oh, one more thing. On this workstation, I have automatic updates
> > configured
> > to notify me before downloading and before installing. I had
> > manually
> > approved the installation of those updates.
> >
> > Dale

>

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008
mick
 

Posts: n/a
RE: Vista reboot screen disaster
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but it seem relevant.

When we were running XP there was a group policy setting to disable
automatic restarts after updates. However since moving to vista this policy
no longer works. Could some one please tell me how to implement this policy
for vista?

thanks
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008
TaurArian
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista reboot screen disaster
If it exists, then they might be able to assist on the Vista NGs

Welcome to Microsoft Windows Vista Newsgroups
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...s/default.mspx

--

TaurArian [MVP] 2005-2008 - Update Services
http://taurarian.mvps.org
======================================
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375
Computer Maintenance: Acronis / Diskeeper / Paragon / Raxco


"mick" <mick@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5D10591C-9099-4EFA-9D20-80578C6118AB@microsoft.com...
| Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but it seem relevant.
|
| When we were running XP there was a group policy setting to disable
| automatic restarts after updates. However since moving to vista this policy
| no longer works. Could some one please tell me how to implement this policy
| for vista?
|
| thanks


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