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What's the advantage of Windows Defender?

microsoft.public.windows.vista.security






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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
Brian
 

Posts: n/a
What's the advantage of Windows Defender?
Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already got a
third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do anything
extra?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
Mr. Arnold
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?

"Brian" <brianandlibby@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:eaWSKOuuHHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already got a
> third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do anything
> extra?


No not really but some like to use the layered protection approach, in case
a solution can be taken down by malware you have some backup,

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
Richard G. Harper
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?
Yes, it does. Defender targets spyware and adware so unless your antivirus
solution also does, turning it off will leave you with a hole in your
protection.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rgharper@gmail.com
* NEW! Catch my blog ... http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Brian" <brianandlibby@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:eaWSKOuuHHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already got a
> third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do anything
> extra?



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
Bruce Chambers
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?
Brian wrote:
> Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already got a
> third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do anything
> extra?



Windows Defender isn't an anti-virus application; it serves the
entirely different purpose of detecting and blocking adware and spyware.
You need both an anti-virus application and an anti-spyware
application. If you prefer, you can install a 3rd-party anti-spyware
program and then disable Windows Defender.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

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safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
John Barnett MVP
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?
Windows Defender targets spyware/malware and without it (or a similar third
party application) you are susceptible to an attack, therefore, if you don't
have third party cover it is wise to keep Windows Defender enabled. My anti
virus software, Sophos Enterprise, also scans for spyware/malware but
Windows Defender is still enabled on my system.

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
Windows - Shell/User

Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..

"Brian" <brianandlibby@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:eaWSKOuuHHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already got a
> third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do anything
> extra?


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
Ken Blake, MVP
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 02:54:41 -0400, "Brian"
<brianandlibby@verizon.net> wrote:

> Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already got a
> third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do anything
> extra?




Yes, it does. You need three kinds of software to protect yourself
adequately:

1. Firewall
2. Anti-virus program
3. Anti-spyware program(s).

Windows Defender is that last kind, and does not substantially overlap
what your firewall and anti-virus programs do,

So, yes, you need Windows Defender, or some other anti-spyware
software. In fact, if the only anti-spyware you run is Defender, you
need *more* protection, not less. A single anti-spyware product is
*not* good enough. Note what Eric Howes, who has done extensive
testing on Anti-Spyware products, states:

"No single anti-spyware scanner removes everything. Even the
best-performing anti-spyware scanner in these tests missed fully one
quarter of the "critical" files and Registry entries" See
http://spywarewarrior.com/asw-test-guide.htm

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?
Not quite true.
Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti
virus or firewall do that.
There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
1. Antivirus
2. Firewall
3. Anti spyware
4. Keep Windows up to date (Windows Update).
While there is some overlap, all 4 are intended to protect the
computer in different ways.
Since they protect for different problems, this is not "layered
protection"

Layered protection is more like a router adding another layer of
protection to the firewall.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Mr. Arnold" <MR. Arnold@Arnold.com> wrote in message
news:e$BRVXuuHHA.3544@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> "Brian" <brianandlibby@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:eaWSKOuuHHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Is it necessary to keep Windows Defender running if you've already
>> got a third-party antivirus and firewall running? Does Defender do
>> anything extra?

>
> No not really but some like to use the layered protection approach,
> in case a solution can be taken down by malware you have some
> backup,


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
Mr. Arnold
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:utcm2kzuHHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Not quite true.


> Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti virus
> or firewall do that.


> There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
> 1. Antivirus
> 2. Firewall


I agree with those two.

> 3. Anti spyware


I don't agree with that one, because all one has to do is not put his or
herself and the machine in that position to have it happen. I haven't used
any of it in years. All the stuff ever did was find cookies and the machine
cannot be attacked by cookies.

> 4. Keep Windows up to date (Windows Update).


I'll agree with that.

> While there is some overlap, all 4 are intended to protect the computer in
> different ways.
> Since they protect for different problems, this is not "layered
> protection"
>
> Layered protection is more like a router adding another layer of
> protection to the firewall.


I look at as anything that can be put on the machine to protect it for what
it's wroth.

The 5th element you left out is below.

But if he user doesn't have any common sense to practice safe hex, then
every last bit of it equals no protection.

The only thing that really protects against anything is the one sitting at
the wheel and doing the driving and using the proper tools, looking around
from time to time to see what's happening on the machine, because malware
can go around every last bit of it.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/klw1


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2007
Ken Blake, MVP
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:27:39 -0400, "Mr. Arnold" <MR.
Arnold@Arnold.com> wrote:

>
> "Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
> news:utcm2kzuHHA.1184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> > Not quite true.

>
> > Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti virus
> > or firewall do that.

>
> > There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
> > 1. Antivirus
> > 2. Firewall

>
> I agree with those two.
>
> > 3. Anti spyware

>
> I don't agree with that one, because all one has to do is not put his or
> herself and the machine in that position to have it happen.




Although I agree with your point, I'm a belt and suspenders kind of
guy. Yes, you can largely avoid malware by practicing safe hex. But
none of us is perfect, and if we are tired, upset, in a hurry, etc.
it's very easy to let our guard down. My stance is that one should use
all the software protection available, but not simply rely on it.

Moreover, not everyone knows enough to protect himself without
software. Especially for people like that (and that's probably the
great majority of people) such software is essential.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2007
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)
 

Posts: n/a
Re: What's the advantage of Windows Defender?
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:27:39 -0400, "Mr. Arnold" <MR.
>"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message


>> Not quite true.

>
>> Windows Defender is to help protect against spyware and neither anti virus
>> or firewall do that.

>
>> There are 4 things needed to help keep the computer secure.
>> 1. Antivirus
>> 2. Firewall

>
>I agree with those two.
>
>> 3. Anti spyware

>
>I don't agree with that one, because all one has to do is not put his or
>herself and the machine in that position to have it happen. I haven't used
>any of it in years. All the stuff ever did was find cookies and the machine
>cannot be attacked by cookies.


I'm begining to agree with this less and less, as the line between
"nice" commercial malware and "nasty" traditional malware gets
blurred. Traditional av still often ignores commercial malware, which
is often no longer pretending to be "legit" (and thus easy to avoid or
remove), so the risk is increasing.

I still don't like to add an active "underfootware" scanner that does
what av does, but I would retain Defender, and to that I would add
Spyware Blaster. The latter does not run all the time, but confers
"static" protection by populating Restricted Zone, cookie kill-lists
etc. with entries for known "bad guys".

Note 1: There are 200+ fake "antispyware" apps out there, avoid them
all! Free "legit" ones include AdAware, Spybot, A-Squared and AVG
Antispyware (what used to be Ewido).

Note 2: At some point, and maybe still, some MS email apps would work
very slowly if there were "too many" entries in Restricted Zone, as
there would be if you actually USED this to block the large number of
malicious sites and banner URLs etc. that are out there.

>> 4. Keep Windows up to date (Windows Update).

>
>I'll agree with that.
>
>> While there is some overlap, all 4 are intended to protect the computer in
>> different ways.
>> Since they protect for different problems, this is not "layered
>> protection"
>>
>> Layered protection is more like a router adding another layer of
>> protection to the firewall.

>
>I look at as anything that can be put on the machine to protect it for what
>it's wroth.
>
>The 5th element you left out is below.
>
>But if he user doesn't have any common sense to practice safe hex, then
>every last bit of it equals no protection.
>
>The only thing that really protects against anything is the one sitting at
>the wheel and doing the driving and using the proper tools, looking around
>from time to time to see what's happening on the machine, because malware
>can go around every last bit of it.


Safe hex helps, but is undermined by unsafe UI (e.g. an Explorer that
hides file name .ext by default) and is bypassed by clickless attacks.

Most of the latter rely on exploitable code defects, hence the advice
to keep patched and use a firewall. But sometimes bad guys find and
use exploits before the good guys find and fix them, and sometimes a
yawning defect is left open because it "works as designed".

It can take YEARS to get a design defect fixed - just look at the age
of MS Office macro malware, starting before VBA and ending only quite
recently (well, becoming less common, at least).

Safe hex is like all these other tips; an essential part of defense,
but no substitute for a lack of any or all of the others.

>http://preview.tinyurl.com/klw1


Nice article :-)



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>------------------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

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