I miss Zone Alarm

I am running Vista Home Premium 64 and there is no 64 bit version of Zone
Alarm so I am depending upon the Windows Firewall instead. It may be a
safer product than Zone Alarm. I have no way to know. But I miss Zone Alarm
because I could always see when something was initially trying to send data
out of my computer. With Zone Alarm during or directly after installing an
app I would get a pop up message from ZA asking me if I wanted to let a
specific app go out through the fire wall. Maybe I have something set up
wrong with the Windows Firewall but I don't recollect that I have seen this
with the WF. When I go to the WF window it says that it is turned on.

Plus I am confused how to understand the Exceptions list. I don't see all
the applications that I have installed on my computer that I would normally
see in ZA. In fact I don't see most of the apps, including some that I know
go out to do autochecking for updates.

Plus when I look in the exceptions list I see that Skype is unchecked but
Skype does work. So what does the check mean?

Walter

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 06:21:18 -0800, "Walter_Slipperman"
<WalterS@nospam.com> wrote:

>I am running Vista Home Premium 64 and there is no 64 bit version of Zone
>Alarm so I am depending upon the Windows Firewall instead.

Why would anyone want to put crap like ZA on a 64-bit machine?

>It may be a safer product than Zone Alarm. I have no way to know.

Well, if you don't know, then why even consider installing ZA in the
first place?

>But I miss Zone Alarm because I could always see when something was
>initially trying to send data out of my computer.

Ahhh.. you miss that good nice feeling of being in control...

>With Zone Alarm during or directly after installing an
>app I would get a pop up message from ZA asking me if I wanted to let a
>specific app go out through the fire wall.

Yes, it would. Now, please explain how this is in any way security
related?

>Maybe I have something set up wrong with the Windows Firewall but I don't
>recollect that I have seen this with the WF. When I go to the WF window it
>says that it is turned on.

The Vista firewall wisely doesn't try to copy the stupid behavior of
3rd party firewalls.

>Plus I am confused how to understand the Exceptions list. I don't see all
>the applications that I have installed on my computer that I would normally
>see in ZA. In fact I don't see most of the apps, including some that I know
>go out to do autochecking for updates.

That's because you don't understand what exceptions mean. Your brain
has been badly influenced by the so called "outbound control" feature
of ZA.

>Plus when I look in the exceptions list I see that Skype is unchecked but
>Skype does work.

Of course.

>So what does the check mean?

It means that Skype is not allowed to receive incoming connections.
That doesn't prevent Skype from working in any way.

Now, how can you expect to gain any security from installing a crappy
packet filter like ZA when you don't understand networking in the
first place?

Walter_Slipperman;601046 Wrote:
> I am running Vista Home Premium 64 and there is no 64 bit version of
> Zone
> Alarm so I am depending upon the Windows Firewall instead. It may be a
> safer product than Zone Alarm. I have no way to know. But I miss Zone
> Alarm
> because I could always see when something was initially trying to send
> data
> out of my computer. With Zone Alarm during or directly after installing
> an
> app I would get a pop up message from ZA asking me if I wanted to let a
> specific app go out through the fire wall. Maybe I have something set
> up
> wrong with the Windows Firewall but I don't recollect that I have seen
> this
> with the WF. When I go to the WF window it says that it is turned on.
>
> Plus I am confused how to understand the Exceptions list. I don't see
> all
> the applications that I have installed on my computer that I would
> normally
> see in ZA. In fact I don't see most of the apps, including some that I
> know
> go out to do autochecking for updates.
>
> Plus when I look in the exceptions list I see that Skype is unchecked
> but
> Skype does work. So what does the check mean?
>
> Walter

Hi Walter,

COMODO Firewall is a great free program. You might give it a go and
see how you like it.

'Free Firewall Protection Software Best Firewall Computer Security Free
Personal Firewall'
(http://www.personalfirewall.comodo.c..._firewall.html)


See these leak test results on firewall programs to help determine what
is best for you.

'Leak-tests results - matousec.com'
(http://www.matousec.com/projects/win...ts-results.php)

Shawn


--
Brink

*There are no dumb questions, just the people that do not ask them.*
'*Vista Forums*'
(http://www.vistax64.com/index.php?referrerid=2980)
*Please post feedback to help others.*

"Walter_Slipperman" <WalterS@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Ow3lNcyaIHA.4684@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> I am running Vista Home Premium 64 and there is no 64 bit version of Zone
> Alarm so I am depending upon the Windows Firewall instead. It may be a
> safer product than Zone Alarm. I have no way to know. But I miss Zone
> Alarm because I could always see when something was initially trying to
> send data out of my computer. With Zone Alarm during or directly after
> installing an app I would get a pop up message from ZA asking me if I
> wanted to let a specific app go out through the fire wall. Maybe I have
> something set up wrong with the Windows Firewall but I don't recollect
> that I have seen this with the WF. When I go to the WF window it says
> that it is turned on.
>
> Plus I am confused how to understand the Exceptions list. I don't see all
> the applications that I have installed on my computer that I would
> normally see in ZA. In fact I don't see most of the apps, including some
> that I know go out to do autochecking for updates.
>
> Plus when I look in the exceptions list I see that Skype is unchecked but
> Skype does work. So what does the check mean?
>
> Walter

Walter,

Try Comodo. It's free.

C.B.

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 06:21:18 -0800, Walter_Slipperman wrote:

> I am running Vista Home Premium 64 and there is no 64 bit version of Zone
> Alarm so I am depending upon the Windows Firewall instead. It may be a
> safer product than Zone Alarm. I have no way to know. But I miss Zone Alarm
> because I could always see when something was initially trying to send data
> out of my computer. With Zone Alarm during or directly after installing an
> app I would get a pop up message from ZA asking me if I wanted to let a
> specific app go out through the fire wall. Maybe I have something set up
> wrong with the Windows Firewall but I don't recollect that I have seen this
> with the WF. When I go to the WF window it says that it is turned on.
>
> Plus I am confused how to understand the Exceptions list. I don't see all
> the applications that I have installed on my computer that I would normally
> see in ZA. In fact I don't see most of the apps, including some that I know
> go out to do autochecking for updates.
>
> Plus when I look in the exceptions list I see that Skype is unchecked but
> Skype does work. So what does the check mean?
>
You are not going to find anything better than the Vista FW and Vista in
itself due to the advanced features the FW and Vista are using.

"Personal Firewalls" are mostly snake-oil.
http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html

Jesper's Blogs-
At Least This Snake Oil Is Free.
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesp...l-is-free.aspx
Windows Firewall: the best new security feature in Vista?
http://blogs.technet.com/jesper_joha...01/426921.aspx

Exploring The Windows Firewall.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...l/default.aspx
"If you try to block outbound connections from a computer that’s already
compromised, how can you be sure that the computer is really doing what you
ask? The answer: you can’t. Outbound protection is security theater—it’s a
gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without
doing anything that actually does improve your security. This is why
outbound protection didn’t exist in the Windows XP firewall and why it
doesn’t exist in the Windows Vista™ firewall."

Vista Firewall Control.
Protects your applications from undesirable network incoming and outgoing
activity, controls applications internet access.
http://sphinx-soft.com/Vista/
--
Security is a process not a product.
(Bruce Schneier)

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:21:19 +0700, Kayman wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 06:21:18 -0800, Walter_Slipperman wrote:
>
>> I am running Vista Home Premium 64 and there is no 64 bit version of Zone
>> Alarm so I am depending upon the Windows Firewall instead. It may be a
>> safer product than Zone Alarm. I have no way to know. But I miss Zone Alarm
>> because I could always see when something was initially trying to send data
>> out of my computer. With Zone Alarm during or directly after installing an
>> app I would get a pop up message from ZA asking me if I wanted to let a
>> specific app go out through the fire wall. Maybe I have something set up
>> wrong with the Windows Firewall but I don't recollect that I have seen this
>> with the WF. When I go to the WF window it says that it is turned on.
>>
>> Plus I am confused how to understand the Exceptions list. I don't see all
>> the applications that I have installed on my computer that I would normally
>> see in ZA. In fact I don't see most of the apps, including some that I know
>> go out to do autochecking for updates.
>>
>> Plus when I look in the exceptions list I see that Skype is unchecked but
>> Skype does work. So what does the check mean?
>>
> You are not going to find anything better than the Vista FW and Vista in
> itself due to the advanced features the FW and Vista are using.
>
> "Personal Firewalls" are mostly snake-oil.
> http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html
>
> Jesper's Blogs-
> At Least This Snake Oil Is Free.
> http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesp...l-is-free.aspx
> Windows Firewall: the best new security feature in Vista?
> http://blogs.technet.com/jesper_joha...01/426921.aspx
>
> Exploring The Windows Firewall.
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...l/default.aspx
> "If you try to block outbound connections from a computer that’s already
> compromised, how can you be sure that the computer is really doing what you
> ask? The answer: you can’t. Outbound protection is security theater—it’s a
> gimmick that only gives the impression of improving your security without
> doing anything that actually does improve your security. This is why
> outbound protection didn’t exist in the Windows XP firewall and why it
> doesn’t exist in the Windows Vista™ firewall."
>
> Vista Firewall Control.
> Protects your applications from undesirable network incoming and outgoing
> activity, controls applications internet access.
> http://sphinx-soft.com/Vista/

And since you're so concerned about outbound traffic, this may assist also:

Tap into the Vista firewall's advanced configuration features
http://articles.techrepublic.com.com...7-6098592.html

"...once you discover the secret of accessing its advanced configuration
settings via the MMC snap-in, you'll find it to be far more configurable
and functional. At last, Windows comes with a sophisticated personal
firewall that can be used to set up outbound rules as well as inbound,
with the ability to customize rules to fit your precise needs."

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 18:10:28 -0500, "C.B."
<notreallycbcbmullen@hotconcretesucksmail.com> wrote:


> Try Comodo.

Sure. Replace one broken concept with another.

>It's free.

Most crap is.

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 16:49:35 -0600, Brink wrote:

<snip>

> 'Leak-tests results - matousec.com'
> (http://www.matousec.com/projects/win...ts-results.php)
>
Firewall LeakTesting.
Leo: So the leaktest is kind of pointless.
Steve: Well, yes, that's the problem is...
Steve: Well, it's why I have not taken the trouble to update mine, because
you...
Leo: You just can't test enough.
Steve: Well, yeah...
Read the entire conversation and be "astonished" and "educated" :-)
http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-105.htm

>
> COMODO Firewall is a great free program. You might give it a go and
> see how you like it.
>
I'm downloading it and installing it now. Should I eventually go into
Vista's Windows Firewall and turn it off?

- Walter

"Kayman" <kaymanDeleteThis@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:OH42pa3aIHA.5128@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 16:49:35 -0600, Brink wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> 'Leak-tests results - matousec.com'
>> (http://www.matousec.com/projects/win...ts-results.php)
>>
> Firewall LeakTesting.
> Leo: So the leaktest is kind of pointless.
> Steve: Well, yes, that's the problem is...
> Steve: Well, it's why I have not taken the trouble to update mine, because
> you...
> Leo: You just can't test enough.
> Steve: Well, yeah...
> Read the entire conversation and be "astonished" and "educated" :-)
> http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-105.htm

coincidentally I recently listened to that podcast. I've probably heard
about 25% of the shows that Leo and Steve Gibson have done since they
started doing them and that was one of them. I don't kow what to make of
the leaktest stuff. From another posting I see that the Comodo firewall
appears to do the best job but I take from the podcast that the exploits
could be configurable so just because Comodo can block an exploit it doesn't
mean that it would catch it if the exploit was slightly tweaked, which it
would be. But I'll still install it and give it a try, knowing that it
might not make my machine any more secure.

BTW, I just listened to the latest Security Now #130 and heard about the
"banking trojans". Wow.