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Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2007
phillfri
 

Posts: n/a
Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access being
one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my NAS
if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to access
a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze, and the
only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot Vista.
Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't and
network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's tech
support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that utilizes
FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've seen
no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined to
believe Coolmax.

So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix the
issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
address it.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2007
Kerry Brown
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
On a NAS the file system is irrelevant to the clients other than the maximum
file size and things like file name length. The NAS is accessing the file
system. Vista is accessing the NAS. I think they are trying to wish the
problem away instead of fixing it. Have you tried turning off the receive
window auto-tuning in Vista?

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca


"phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:BF40FC01-4308-4585-B7E1-047FCE98BD1B@microsoft.com...
> As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access
> being
> one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my
> NAS
> if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to
> access
> a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
> subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze, and
> the
> only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot
> Vista.
> Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't
> and
> network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's tech
> support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that utilizes
> FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
> reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've
> seen
> no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined to
> believe Coolmax.
>
> So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix the
> issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
> address it.


Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2007
phillfri
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
Thanks for the response. I will certainly try your advice. I'll try anything
at this point :>)

I doubt the issue is NAS inability to access the file structure. The NAS
works fine on Windows XP. And my wireless network devices are Vista
Qualified. Actually, on occassion the NAS actually will go down into
subfolders on a share. But when it does, it will only last until one goes
back up the share directory tree, when Windows Explorer freezes.

I also note that sometimes Windows Vista won't allow me to even access the
NAS administration through my browser - can't get past the login on the NAS.
I can still access the NAS from a Windows XP machine when this happens.

Given all that I've experienced to date, and the fact that the NAS works
fine on WIndows XP, this seems an issue of Windows Vista's re-written TCP/IP
stack and network access code altering net access in some manner that is not
in conformance with NAS standards as implemented on many NAS boxes currently
in existence.

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

> On a NAS the file system is irrelevant to the clients other than the maximum
> file size and things like file name length. The NAS is accessing the file
> system. Vista is accessing the NAS. I think they are trying to wish the
> problem away instead of fixing it. Have you tried turning off the receive
> window auto-tuning in Vista?
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>
>
> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:BF40FC01-4308-4585-B7E1-047FCE98BD1B@microsoft.com...
> > As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access
> > being
> > one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my
> > NAS
> > if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to
> > access
> > a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
> > subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze, and
> > the
> > only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot
> > Vista.
> > Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't
> > and
> > network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's tech
> > support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that utilizes
> > FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
> > reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've
> > seen
> > no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined to
> > believe Coolmax.
> >
> > So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix the
> > issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
> > address it.

>
>

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2007
Kerry Brown
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
Most NAS devices use samba for file sharing. There are known problems with
older versions of samba and Vista. If the manufacturer of the NAS releases a
firmware update with a newer version of samba it should work. In the
meantime there are a few workarounds such as lowering the authentication
level for Vista, turning off the receive window auto-tuning in Vista, and
disabling uPnP on the NAS if it supports it. If none of those work and the
NAS manufacturer isn't interested in updating the firmware then the device
won't work with Vista. Vista is using newer standards for networking than
some older NAS devices.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca


"phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:38D71E54-3B59-4E1A-8CA6-DAF31100AA96@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the response. I will certainly try your advice. I'll try
> anything
> at this point :>)
>
> I doubt the issue is NAS inability to access the file structure. The NAS
> works fine on Windows XP. And my wireless network devices are Vista
> Qualified. Actually, on occassion the NAS actually will go down into
> subfolders on a share. But when it does, it will only last until one goes
> back up the share directory tree, when Windows Explorer freezes.
>
> I also note that sometimes Windows Vista won't allow me to even access the
> NAS administration through my browser - can't get past the login on the
> NAS.
> I can still access the NAS from a Windows XP machine when this happens.
>
> Given all that I've experienced to date, and the fact that the NAS works
> fine on WIndows XP, this seems an issue of Windows Vista's re-written
> TCP/IP
> stack and network access code altering net access in some manner that is
> not
> in conformance with NAS standards as implemented on many NAS boxes
> currently
> in existence.
>
> "Kerry Brown" wrote:
>
>> On a NAS the file system is irrelevant to the clients other than the
>> maximum
>> file size and things like file name length. The NAS is accessing the file
>> system. Vista is accessing the NAS. I think they are trying to wish the
>> problem away instead of fixing it. Have you tried turning off the receive
>> window auto-tuning in Vista?
>>
>> --
>> Kerry Brown
>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
>> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>>
>>
>> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:BF40FC01-4308-4585-B7E1-047FCE98BD1B@microsoft.com...
>> > As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access
>> > being
>> > one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my
>> > NAS
>> > if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to
>> > access
>> > a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
>> > subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze,
>> > and
>> > the
>> > only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot
>> > Vista.
>> > Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't
>> > and
>> > network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's
>> > tech
>> > support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that
>> > utilizes
>> > FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
>> > reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've
>> > seen
>> > no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined
>> > to
>> > believe Coolmax.
>> >
>> > So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix
>> > the
>> > issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
>> > address it.

>>
>>


Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2007
phillfri
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
I will try all these tricks, thank you :>) But to me it seems irrational that
the software OS shouldn't be compatible with an installed hardware base worth
millions of $ to the OS's users, especially when we're talking about a
technology that has been around/standard for years and is fully capable of
fulfilling the function for which it was designed. If this were a new
technology it might be understandable, but its not. I think MS' past success
has warped their ability to think rationally.

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

> Most NAS devices use samba for file sharing. There are known problems with
> older versions of samba and Vista. If the manufacturer of the NAS releases a
> firmware update with a newer version of samba it should work. In the
> meantime there are a few workarounds such as lowering the authentication
> level for Vista, turning off the receive window auto-tuning in Vista, and
> disabling uPnP on the NAS if it supports it. If none of those work and the
> NAS manufacturer isn't interested in updating the firmware then the device
> won't work with Vista. Vista is using newer standards for networking than
> some older NAS devices.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>
>
> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:38D71E54-3B59-4E1A-8CA6-DAF31100AA96@microsoft.com...
> > Thanks for the response. I will certainly try your advice. I'll try
> > anything
> > at this point :>)
> >
> > I doubt the issue is NAS inability to access the file structure. The NAS
> > works fine on Windows XP. And my wireless network devices are Vista
> > Qualified. Actually, on occassion the NAS actually will go down into
> > subfolders on a share. But when it does, it will only last until one goes
> > back up the share directory tree, when Windows Explorer freezes.
> >
> > I also note that sometimes Windows Vista won't allow me to even access the
> > NAS administration through my browser - can't get past the login on the
> > NAS.
> > I can still access the NAS from a Windows XP machine when this happens.
> >
> > Given all that I've experienced to date, and the fact that the NAS works
> > fine on WIndows XP, this seems an issue of Windows Vista's re-written
> > TCP/IP
> > stack and network access code altering net access in some manner that is
> > not
> > in conformance with NAS standards as implemented on many NAS boxes
> > currently
> > in existence.
> >
> > "Kerry Brown" wrote:
> >
> >> On a NAS the file system is irrelevant to the clients other than the
> >> maximum
> >> file size and things like file name length. The NAS is accessing the file
> >> system. Vista is accessing the NAS. I think they are trying to wish the
> >> problem away instead of fixing it. Have you tried turning off the receive
> >> window auto-tuning in Vista?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kerry Brown
> >> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> >> http://www.vistahelp.ca
> >>
> >>
> >> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:BF40FC01-4308-4585-B7E1-047FCE98BD1B@microsoft.com...
> >> > As most are aware, Vista has its share of networking issues, NAS access
> >> > being
> >> > one of them. I have a Coolmax CN-550 NAS. I can access the shares on my
> >> > NAS
> >> > if I use the common work around for the protocol utilized by Vista to
> >> > access
> >> > a NAS, but even after applying that work around, attempting to access a
> >> > subfolder on a share will cause Windows Explorer in Vista to freeze,
> >> > and
> >> > the
> >> > only way you can get Windows Explorer to work right again is to reboot
> >> > Vista.
> >> > Windows Explorer may 'look' like its recovered sometimes, but it hasn't
> >> > and
> >> > network access will not be working correctly. According to Coolmax's
> >> > tech
> >> > support, this problem exists with access to any NAS device that
> >> > utilizes
> >> > FAT32 as its file format. They say that other NAS manufacturer's are
> >> > reporting the same issue with FAT32 formatted NAS devices. And as I've
> >> > seen
> >> > no one find a solution to this issue, including Microsoft, I'm inclined
> >> > to
> >> > believe Coolmax.
> >> >
> >> > So, if this is your problem, all you can do is wait for Vista to fix
> >> > the
> >> > issue, which sadly they seem in no hurry to address - if they ever will
> >> > address it.
> >>
> >>

>
>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2007
Kerry Brown
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
"phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:79EC13ED-BB8D-4818-93C4-4FC038564002@microsoft.com...
>I will try all these tricks, thank you :>) But to me it seems irrational
>that
> the software OS shouldn't be compatible with an installed hardware base
> worth
> millions of $ to the OS's users, especially when we're talking about a
> technology that has been around/standard for years and is fully capable of
> fulfilling the function for which it was designed. If this were a new
> technology it might be understandable, but its not. I think MS' past
> success
> has warped their ability to think rationally.
>



I don't totally disagree with you. I can see programming for the newest
standards. At the same time you should be able to fall back to the old
standards if needed.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca


Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2007
David Sharman
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
So how does one turn off receive window auto tuning in vista then? I'm not
sure how to get there in Vista.

David

"Kerry Brown" wrote:

> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:79EC13ED-BB8D-4818-93C4-4FC038564002@microsoft.com...
> >I will try all these tricks, thank you :>) But to me it seems irrational
> >that
> > the software OS shouldn't be compatible with an installed hardware base
> > worth
> > millions of $ to the OS's users, especially when we're talking about a
> > technology that has been around/standard for years and is fully capable of
> > fulfilling the function for which it was designed. If this were a new
> > technology it might be understandable, but its not. I think MS' past
> > success
> > has warped their ability to think rationally.
> >

>
>
> I don't totally disagree with you. I can see programming for the newest
> standards. At the same time you should be able to fall back to the old
> standards if needed.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2007
Kerry Brown
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
"David Sharman" <DavidSharman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9C43CF2B-E9D0-40A8-BBAA-81A45F6BDD53@microsoft.com...
> So how does one turn off receive window auto tuning in vista then? I'm
> not
> sure how to get there in Vista.
>



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...t uning&meta=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...Amicrosoft.com

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?...ng& form=QBRE

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?...com&FORM=SSRE3

The above searches will help.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
http://www.vistahelp.ca


Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2007
Paul Stotts
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista NAS Issue - FAT32 Network Drives
Hi David,
Open a Command Prompt and type 'netsh interface tcp show global' to see the
settings.
Try 'netsh interface tcp set global /?' to see the options.
Run cmd.exe as root, (elevated), and type 'netsh interface tcp set global
autotuning=disable'.

Paul


"David Sharman" <DavidSharman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9C43CF2B-E9D0-40A8-BBAA-81A45F6BDD53@microsoft.com...
> So how does one turn off receive window auto tuning in vista then? I'm
> not
> sure how to get there in Vista.
>
> David
>
> "Kerry Brown" wrote:
>
>> "phillfri" <phillfri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:79EC13ED-BB8D-4818-93C4-4FC038564002@microsoft.com...
>> >I will try all these tricks, thank you :>) But to me it seems irrational
>> >that
>> > the software OS shouldn't be compatible with an installed hardware base
>> > worth
>> > millions of $ to the OS's users, especially when we're talking about a
>> > technology that has been around/standard for years and is fully capable
>> > of
>> > fulfilling the function for which it was designed. If this were a new
>> > technology it might be understandable, but its not. I think MS' past
>> > success
>> > has warped their ability to think rationally.
>> >

>>
>>
>> I don't totally disagree with you. I can see programming for the newest
>> standards. At the same time you should be able to fall back to the old
>> standards if needed.
>>
>> --
>> Kerry Brown
>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
>> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>>
>>
>>


Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2007
Newbie
 

Join Date: Sep 2007
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NASty Problems With Vista
Phill:

Although my Western Digital MyBook World Edition is formatted in NTFS I and (many, many) other folks are experiencing the exact same trauma as you are trying to access it, particularly with the new Vista Backup program.

I have attempted most, but not all, of the fixes mentioned by Kerry, but to no avail.

The "Receive Window Auto Tuning" thing is a new one on me, which I'm a bit dubious about, but at this point I'll try anything.

The fact that no less than 5 of my clients, all with NAS drives which worked flawlessly under XP Professional, now have the same nightmare to deal with proves that something is Rotten in Denmark (or Redmond, as the case may be).

I'm usually not a chronic complainer and I don't mind doing hours or research on a problem with Vista if it eventually bears fruit, but in this instance I (and seemingly everybody else) have simply hit a brick wall, which means in this case the problem is definitely not "BTKATC" (Between The Keyboard And The Chair).

Whether these drives run on Samba 1.0 or 3.0 Microsoft is obligated to provide some sort of backward compatibility with them; expecting Western Digital, Seagate, Buffalo, or Iomega to update the operating systems on what was probably a fairly inexpensive drive to begin with is probably not going to happen. The fact that they all worked just fine under XP proves that it can't be too great a leap for MS to keep them in the "technology loop" for Vista as well.

Accordingly I don't think it's too much to ask that some real, live Microsoft employees "get with the program" and give us some much-needed and well-deserved tech support; I mean, it's not like we haven't tried to help ourselves at this point.

Well, here's hoping, anyway...
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