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unable to home network Vista & XP using NetBEUI as only bound prot

microsoft.public.windows.vista.networking sharing






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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008
Kevin
 

Posts: n/a
unable to home network Vista & XP using NetBEUI as only bound prot
I am trying to resolve a home networking issue between one Vista Business
laptop and several XP Pro SP2 & SP3 machines on my existing, functional
NetBEUI home network (File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks &
Client for Microsoft Networks bound only to NetBEUI, not to TCP/IP -
additionally, NetBIOS over TCP/IP is Disabled - all machines).

I searched around here for 'NetBEUI' and didn't find much.
I realize that support for NetBEUI vis-a-vis Vista has been discontinued by
MS and have read MS KB articles about that. That doesn't necessarily mean it
cannot be done.

I've installed Link-Layer Topology Discovery (LLTD) protocol on the XP
Pro machines and can now see them in the Vista Network and Sharing Center
network map. I have also installed the NetBEUI protocol on the Vista machine
and have configured NetBEUI (bound) and TCP/IPv4 & v6 (unbound and NetBIOS
over TCP/IP Disabled) identical to the XP Pro machines.

However, I am unable to see the XP Pro machines in Vista Windows Explorer >
Network, only the Vista machine itself.
Conversely, I am unable to see the Vista machine from any of the XP Pro
machines - even when searching for it directly by it's computer name,
'P200-S03_VB'.

I have my existing Workgroup name correctly entered for the Vista machine.
I have Vista User Account Control turned Off.
The Vista Guest account is turned On.
In Vista Network and Sharing Center, my network type is Private.
Under Sharing and Discovery, I have:
Network discovery, File sharing & Public folder sharing (read only) turned On.
No printers are installed on the Vista machine.
Password protected sharing & Media sharing are turned Off.
I have my Vista's 'Downloads' folder shared with Read(ing) Allow(ed)
Permissions for Everyone (only).

I am using the ZoneAlarm (free) s/w firewall on all machines with all IP's
on my private subnet configured as 'Trusted', although, in the case of the
NetBEUI protocol, this is likely not relevant.

I should be able to network among all machines with the above parameters,
however, the only way I can establish network connectivity between all
machines is to bind File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks & Client
for Microsoft
Networks to TCP/IP(v4, only, in the case of the Vista machine) and set
NetBIOS over TCP/IP to Default on all machines.

If anyone knows specifically why I can't (yet) network with NetBEUI, I'd be
very interested to know.

FYI - For the inevitable 'Why use NetBEUI?' questions, I prefer to use
NetBEUI because NetBEUI traffic cannot cross my router (or come in to my home
network) and by leaving TCP/IP unbound and NetBIOS over TCP/IP Disabled, my
home network security is significantly enhanced.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2008
Jack \(MVP-Networking\).
 

Posts: n/a
Re: unable to home network Vista & XP using NetBEUI as only bound prot
Hi
Vista does not support NetBEUI..
You can leave the NetBEUI on the Win XP computers and it would be used when
they are "Talking" one to the other.
In parallel you can bound on the WinXP computers TCP/IP to the file sharing
and it would be used to "Talk" to the Vista computers.
Successful Sharing involves some general consideration in Network settings,
http://www.ezlan.net/sharing.html
As well as specific adjustment of each computer according to what it is
allowed to be shared.
Vista File and Printer Sharing-
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb727037.aspx
Windows XP File Sharing -
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;304040
Printer Sharing XP -
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...utt_july2.mspx
Windows Native Firewall setting for Sharing XP -
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875357
Windows XP patch for Sharing with Vista -
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922120
Jack (MVP-Networking).


"Kevin" <Kevin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0363A86D-B271-48F0-BBF3-459D3D28576C@microsoft.com...
>I am trying to resolve a home networking issue between one Vista Business
> laptop and several XP Pro SP2 & SP3 machines on my existing, functional
> NetBEUI home network (File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks &
> Client for Microsoft Networks bound only to NetBEUI, not to TCP/IP -
> additionally, NetBIOS over TCP/IP is Disabled - all machines).
>
> I searched around here for 'NetBEUI' and didn't find much.
> I realize that support for NetBEUI vis-a-vis Vista has been discontinued
> by
> MS and have read MS KB articles about that. That doesn't necessarily mean
> it
> cannot be done.
>
> I've installed Link-Layer Topology Discovery (LLTD) protocol on the XP
> Pro machines and can now see them in the Vista Network and Sharing Center
> network map. I have also installed the NetBEUI protocol on the Vista
> machine
> and have configured NetBEUI (bound) and TCP/IPv4 & v6 (unbound and NetBIOS
> over TCP/IP Disabled) identical to the XP Pro machines.
>
> However, I am unable to see the XP Pro machines in Vista Windows Explorer
> >

> Network, only the Vista machine itself.
> Conversely, I am unable to see the Vista machine from any of the XP Pro
> machines - even when searching for it directly by it's computer name,
> 'P200-S03_VB'.
>
> I have my existing Workgroup name correctly entered for the Vista machine.
> I have Vista User Account Control turned Off.
> The Vista Guest account is turned On.
> In Vista Network and Sharing Center, my network type is Private.
> Under Sharing and Discovery, I have:
> Network discovery, File sharing & Public folder sharing (read only) turned
> On.
> No printers are installed on the Vista machine.
> Password protected sharing & Media sharing are turned Off.
> I have my Vista's 'Downloads' folder shared with Read(ing) Allow(ed)
> Permissions for Everyone (only).
>
> I am using the ZoneAlarm (free) s/w firewall on all machines with all IP's
> on my private subnet configured as 'Trusted', although, in the case of the
> NetBEUI protocol, this is likely not relevant.
>
> I should be able to network among all machines with the above parameters,
> however, the only way I can establish network connectivity between all
> machines is to bind File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks &
> Client
> for Microsoft
> Networks to TCP/IP(v4, only, in the case of the Vista machine) and set
> NetBIOS over TCP/IP to Default on all machines.
>
> If anyone knows specifically why I can't (yet) network with NetBEUI, I'd
> be
> very interested to know.
>
> FYI - For the inevitable 'Why use NetBEUI?' questions, I prefer to use
> NetBEUI because NetBEUI traffic cannot cross my router (or come in to my
> home
> network) and by leaving TCP/IP unbound and NetBIOS over TCP/IP Disabled,
> my
> home network security is significantly enhanced.
>


Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2008
Kevin
 

Posts: n/a
Re: unable to home network Vista & XP using NetBEUI as only bound
Hi Jack ... thanks for helping me out ... you say:
"Vista does not support NetBEUI"
... well, neither did XP ... but it still works just fine in XP ... is
there some kind of hard and fast technical roadblock to its' use with Vista?
(FYI - NetBEUI installs OK and appears under 'Network Connections > Advanced
> Advanced Settings...' as a valid protocol for binding with M F and P S for

M N & C for M N)
Also you say:
"In parallel you can bound on the WinXP computers TCP/IP to the file sharing
and it would be used to "Talk" to the Vista computers."
I get what you mean except for the "In parallel" part ... could you
elaborate please?

I'm really trying to avoid binding anything to TCP/IP on the Win XP machines
(or to TCP/IPv4 on the Vista machine) and prefer to have NetBIOS over TCP/IP
Disabled as well - I believe this is the only way to remain absolutely 100%
stealthy ... vis-a-vis incoming unfriendly probe-type TCP/IP traffic that may
be able to exploit my ZA (free) s/w firewalls.

"Jack (MVP-Networking)." wrote:

> Hi
> Vista does not support NetBEUI..
> You can leave the NetBEUI on the Win XP computers and it would be used when
> they are "Talking" one to the other.
> In parallel you can bound on the WinXP computers TCP/IP to the file sharing
> and it would be used to "Talk" to the Vista computers.
> Successful Sharing involves some general consideration in Network settings,
> http://www.ezlan.net/sharing.html
> As well as specific adjustment of each computer according to what it is
> allowed to be shared.
> Vista File and Printer Sharing-
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb727037.aspx
> Windows XP File Sharing -
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;304040
> Printer Sharing XP -
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...utt_july2.mspx
> Windows Native Firewall setting for Sharing XP -
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/875357
> Windows XP patch for Sharing with Vista -
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922120
> Jack (MVP-Networking).
>
>
> "Kevin" <Kevin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:0363A86D-B271-48F0-BBF3-459D3D28576C@microsoft.com...
> >I am trying to resolve a home networking issue between one Vista Business
> > laptop and several XP Pro SP2 & SP3 machines on my existing, functional
> > NetBEUI home network (File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks &
> > Client for Microsoft Networks bound only to NetBEUI, not to TCP/IP -
> > additionally, NetBIOS over TCP/IP is Disabled - all machines).
> >
> > I searched around here for 'NetBEUI' and didn't find much.
> > I realize that support for NetBEUI vis-a-vis Vista has been discontinued
> > by
> > MS and have read MS KB articles about that. That doesn't necessarily mean
> > it
> > cannot be done.
> >
> > I've installed Link-Layer Topology Discovery (LLTD) protocol on the XP
> > Pro machines and can now see them in the Vista Network and Sharing Center
> > network map. I have also installed the NetBEUI protocol on the Vista
> > machine
> > and have configured NetBEUI (bound) and TCP/IPv4 & v6 (unbound and NetBIOS
> > over TCP/IP Disabled) identical to the XP Pro machines.
> >
> > However, I am unable to see the XP Pro machines in Vista Windows Explorer
> > >

> > Network, only the Vista machine itself.
> > Conversely, I am unable to see the Vista machine from any of the XP Pro
> > machines - even when searching for it directly by it's computer name,
> > 'P200-S03_VB'.
> >
> > I have my existing Workgroup name correctly entered for the Vista machine.
> > I have Vista User Account Control turned Off.
> > The Vista Guest account is turned On.
> > In Vista Network and Sharing Center, my network type is Private.
> > Under Sharing and Discovery, I have:
> > Network discovery, File sharing & Public folder sharing (read only) turned
> > On.
> > No printers are installed on the Vista machine.
> > Password protected sharing & Media sharing are turned Off.
> > I have my Vista's 'Downloads' folder shared with Read(ing) Allow(ed)
> > Permissions for Everyone (only).
> >
> > I am using the ZoneAlarm (free) s/w firewall on all machines with all IP's
> > on my private subnet configured as 'Trusted', although, in the case of the
> > NetBEUI protocol, this is likely not relevant.
> >
> > I should be able to network among all machines with the above parameters,
> > however, the only way I can establish network connectivity between all
> > machines is to bind File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks &
> > Client
> > for Microsoft
> > Networks to TCP/IP(v4, only, in the case of the Vista machine) and set
> > NetBIOS over TCP/IP to Default on all machines.
> >
> > If anyone knows specifically why I can't (yet) network with NetBEUI, I'd
> > be
> > very interested to know.
> >
> > FYI - For the inevitable 'Why use NetBEUI?' questions, I prefer to use
> > NetBEUI because NetBEUI traffic cannot cross my router (or come in to my
> > home
> > network) and by leaving TCP/IP unbound and NetBIOS over TCP/IP Disabled,
> > my
> > home network security is significantly enhanced.
> >

>
>

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2008
Steve Winograd
 

Posts: n/a
Re: unable to home network Vista & XP using NetBEUI as only bound prot
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:18:20 -0700, Kevin
<Kevin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I am trying to resolve a home networking issue between one Vista Business
>laptop and several XP Pro SP2 & SP3 machines on my existing, functional
>NetBEUI home network (File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks &
>Client for Microsoft Networks bound only to NetBEUI, not to TCP/IP -
>additionally, NetBIOS over TCP/IP is Disabled - all machines).
>
>I searched around here for 'NetBEUI' and didn't find much.
>I realize that support for NetBEUI vis-a-vis Vista has been discontinued by
>MS and have read MS KB articles about that. That doesn't necessarily mean it
>cannot be done.
>
>I've installed Link-Layer Topology Discovery (LLTD) protocol on the XP
>Pro machines and can now see them in the Vista Network and Sharing Center
>network map. I have also installed the NetBEUI protocol on the Vista machine
>and have configured NetBEUI (bound) and TCP/IPv4 & v6 (unbound and NetBIOS
>over TCP/IP Disabled) identical to the XP Pro machines.
>
>However, I am unable to see the XP Pro machines in Vista Windows Explorer >
>Network, only the Vista machine itself.
>Conversely, I am unable to see the Vista machine from any of the XP Pro
>machines - even when searching for it directly by it's computer name,
>'P200-S03_VB'.
>
>I have my existing Workgroup name correctly entered for the Vista machine.
>I have Vista User Account Control turned Off.
>The Vista Guest account is turned On.
>In Vista Network and Sharing Center, my network type is Private.
>Under Sharing and Discovery, I have:
>Network discovery, File sharing & Public folder sharing (read only) turned On.
>No printers are installed on the Vista machine.
>Password protected sharing & Media sharing are turned Off.
>I have my Vista's 'Downloads' folder shared with Read(ing) Allow(ed)
>Permissions for Everyone (only).
>
>I am using the ZoneAlarm (free) s/w firewall on all machines with all IP's
>on my private subnet configured as 'Trusted', although, in the case of the
>NetBEUI protocol, this is likely not relevant.
>
>I should be able to network among all machines with the above parameters,
>however, the only way I can establish network connectivity between all
>machines is to bind File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks & Client
>for Microsoft
>Networks to TCP/IP(v4, only, in the case of the Vista machine) and set
>NetBIOS over TCP/IP to Default on all machines.
>
>If anyone knows specifically why I can't (yet) network with NetBEUI, I'd be
>very interested to know.
>
>FYI - For the inevitable 'Why use NetBEUI?' questions, I prefer to use
>NetBEUI because NetBEUI traffic cannot cross my router (or come in to my home
>network) and by leaving TCP/IP unbound and NetBIOS over TCP/IP Disabled, my
>home network security is significantly enhanced.


I'm sorry, but I don't know how to get NetBEUI to work in your
network.

As you know, TCP/IP is the only supported network protocol in Vista.
NetBEUI wasn't part of Vista's design, implementation, or testing.

It's possible that the vestiges of NetBEUI support that were in XP
have been removed in Vista. It's possible that the XP NetBEUI drivers
don't conform to Vista's network implementation or security model and
that nothing you do can make them work.

It's easy to make TCP/IP secure on a modern home network with a router
and firewalls. I don't think that using NetBEUI would enhance your
home network security at all, although it might have 10 years ago.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2008
Kevin
 

Posts: n/a
Re: unable to home network Vista & XP using NetBEUI as only bound
Thanks fellas for your input on my issue ... I guess networking Vista and XP
using NetBEUI as the only bound protocol simply can't be done ... and my
security concerns have largely been addressed ... my thread 'Can specific UDP
ports be configured to pass traffic in ZA 7.1.254.000 (free)?' at:
http://forums.zonealarm.org/zonelabs...ssage.id=53450 at the ZA Configuration forum has helped me to understand why.

Thanks again.

"Steve Winograd" wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:18:20 -0700, Kevin
> <Kevin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >I am trying to resolve a home networking issue between one Vista Business
> >laptop and several XP Pro SP2 & SP3 machines on my existing, functional
> >NetBEUI home network (File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks &
> >Client for Microsoft Networks bound only to NetBEUI, not to TCP/IP -
> >additionally, NetBIOS over TCP/IP is Disabled - all machines).
> >
> >I searched around here for 'NetBEUI' and didn't find much.
> >I realize that support for NetBEUI vis-a-vis Vista has been discontinued by
> >MS and have read MS KB articles about that. That doesn't necessarily mean it
> >cannot be done.
> >
> >I've installed Link-Layer Topology Discovery (LLTD) protocol on the XP
> >Pro machines and can now see them in the Vista Network and Sharing Center
> >network map. I have also installed the NetBEUI protocol on the Vista machine
> >and have configured NetBEUI (bound) and TCP/IPv4 & v6 (unbound and NetBIOS
> >over TCP/IP Disabled) identical to the XP Pro machines.
> >
> >However, I am unable to see the XP Pro machines in Vista Windows Explorer >
> >Network, only the Vista machine itself.
> >Conversely, I am unable to see the Vista machine from any of the XP Pro
> >machines - even when searching for it directly by it's computer name,
> >'P200-S03_VB'.
> >
> >I have my existing Workgroup name correctly entered for the Vista machine.
> >I have Vista User Account Control turned Off.
> >The Vista Guest account is turned On.
> >In Vista Network and Sharing Center, my network type is Private.
> >Under Sharing and Discovery, I have:
> >Network discovery, File sharing & Public folder sharing (read only) turned On.
> >No printers are installed on the Vista machine.
> >Password protected sharing & Media sharing are turned Off.
> >I have my Vista's 'Downloads' folder shared with Read(ing) Allow(ed)
> >Permissions for Everyone (only).
> >
> >I am using the ZoneAlarm (free) s/w firewall on all machines with all IP's
> >on my private subnet configured as 'Trusted', although, in the case of the
> >NetBEUI protocol, this is likely not relevant.
> >
> >I should be able to network among all machines with the above parameters,
> >however, the only way I can establish network connectivity between all
> >machines is to bind File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks & Client
> >for Microsoft
> >Networks to TCP/IP(v4, only, in the case of the Vista machine) and set
> >NetBIOS over TCP/IP to Default on all machines.
> >
> >If anyone knows specifically why I can't (yet) network with NetBEUI, I'd be
> >very interested to know.
> >
> >FYI - For the inevitable 'Why use NetBEUI?' questions, I prefer to use
> >NetBEUI because NetBEUI traffic cannot cross my router (or come in to my home
> >network) and by leaving TCP/IP unbound and NetBIOS over TCP/IP Disabled, my
> >home network security is significantly enhanced.

>
> I'm sorry, but I don't know how to get NetBEUI to work in your
> network.
>
> As you know, TCP/IP is the only supported network protocol in Vista.
> NetBEUI wasn't part of Vista's design, implementation, or testing.
>
> It's possible that the vestiges of NetBEUI support that were in XP
> have been removed in Vista. It's possible that the XP NetBEUI drivers
> don't conform to Vista's network implementation or security model and
> that nothing you do can make them work.
>
> It's easy to make TCP/IP secure on a modern home network with a router
> and firewalls. I don't think that using NetBEUI would enhance your
> home network security at all, although it might have 10 years ago.
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
> for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
> addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2008
Steve Winograd
 

Posts: n/a
Re: unable to home network Vista & XP using NetBEUI as only bound
On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:38:00 -0700, Kevin
<Kevin@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Thanks fellas for your input on my issue ... I guess networking Vista and XP
>using NetBEUI as the only bound protocol simply can't be done ... and my
>security concerns have largely been addressed ... my thread 'Can specific UDP
>ports be configured to pass traffic in ZA 7.1.254.000 (free)?' at:
>http://forums.zonealarm.org/zonelabs...ssage.id=53450 at the ZA Configuration forum has helped me to understand why.
>
>Thanks again.


You're welcome, Kevin. Thanks for pointing out the thread in the
ZoneAlarm forums -- it's really interesting.

In one message, "FFF", who asked the original question, said that he
"was heavily influenced by Steve Gibson over at grc.com)." IMHO,
Steve Gibson is much better at fearmongering and self-promotion than
he is at giving reliable networking information.
--
Best Wishes,
Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking)

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group
for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions
addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
Reply With Quote
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