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Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2008
nospam_paquette@uwo.ca
 

Posts: n/a
Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
For quite some time I have used a DLink DIR-625 router for home
networking (DLS connection). I rely heavily on MirrorFolder running
on top of PPTP VPN to mirror my work files on a regular basis to
various machines at two different sites. Doing so obviously requires
the ability to map to folders on all machines involved in the mirror
relationships.

On Saturday I added a second router (a DLink WBR 2310) because I now
have one wireless machine running “N” protocol and thus need to use
WPA encryption on the DIR-625 which makes its wireless service
unavailable to the legacy “g” protocol (hence WEP encryption only)
devices in the house. Basically everything went well except for one
small but very important detail. I no longer am able to map from my
main work machine on the DIR-625 to my laptop on the WBR 2310.
Attempts to use Net Use to map to a drive on the laptop from my main
desktop work machine result in a system error 53 (“the network path
was not found”).

Both routers are plugged directly into ports on my DLS modem.
Everything seems normal in all respects except my inability to map
from my desktop to my laptop. The laptop has no problem, for
instance, logging into VPN but also cannot map back to my desktop
either.

So in a nutshell, I have machines on two separate NAT routers logged
into the same DSL modem and file/folder mapping fails from computers
on one router to computers on the other router. Is there a way to
make this work? If so, how does one do so?

Although it is likely completely irrelevant to this issue my desktop
is a multiboot on which I normally in Vista and my laptop is XP/SP2.
The VPN service is provided by my employer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008
Jack \(MVP-Networking\).
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
Hi
You created two independent Networks and the mapping can not cross from one
Network to the other.
If your modem is a combo Modem/Router then you actually have triple NAT,or
if it is a Modem only then you try to Map trough the combo of two LANs and
the Internet
Connect the second Router as an Access Point to the main Router and
configure one cohesive Network.
Here is the principle, Wireless Router as an Access Point -
http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
Jack (MS, MVP-Networking)

<paquette@uwo.ca> wrote in message
news:a2ac399a-759d-4f86-bb93-ed7d77dc3715@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
For quite some time I have used a DLink DIR-625 router for home
networking (DLS connection). I rely heavily on MirrorFolder running
on top of PPTP VPN to mirror my work files on a regular basis to
various machines at two different sites. Doing so obviously requires
the ability to map to folders on all machines involved in the mirror
relationships.

On Saturday I added a second router (a DLink WBR 2310) because I now
have one wireless machine running “N” protocol and thus need to use
WPA encryption on the DIR-625 which makes its wireless service
unavailable to the legacy “g” protocol (hence WEP encryption only)
devices in the house. Basically everything went well except for one
small but very important detail. I no longer am able to map from my
main work machine on the DIR-625 to my laptop on the WBR 2310.
Attempts to use Net Use to map to a drive on the laptop from my main
desktop work machine result in a system error 53 (“the network path
was not found”).

Both routers are plugged directly into ports on my DLS modem.
Everything seems normal in all respects except my inability to map
from my desktop to my laptop. The laptop has no problem, for
instance, logging into VPN but also cannot map back to my desktop
either.

So in a nutshell, I have machines on two separate NAT routers logged
into the same DSL modem and file/folder mapping fails from computers
on one router to computers on the other router. Is there a way to
make this work? If so, how does one do so?

Although it is likely completely irrelevant to this issue my desktop
is a multiboot on which I normally in Vista and my laptop is XP/SP2.
The VPN service is provided by my employer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008
Barb Bowman
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
802.11g is certainly WPA capable. What devices exactly? You are only
as secure as your weakest link and while you have WPA on the new
router, your network is at risk because of the WEP segment.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:14:17 -0700 (PDT), "nospam_paquette@uwo.ca"
<paquette@uwo.ca> wrote:

>On Saturday I added a second router (a DLink WBR 2310) because I now
>have one wireless machine running “N” protocol and thus need to use
>WPA encryption on the DIR-625 which makes its wireless service
>unavailable to the legacy “g” protocol (hence WEP encryption only)
>devices in the house.

--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008
nospam_paquette@uwo.ca
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
On Jul 22, 4:29 am, Barb Bowman <b...@nospam.com> wrote:
> 802.11g is certainly WPA capable. What devices exactly? You are only
> as secure as your weakest link and while you have WPA on the new
> router, your network is at risk because of the WEP segment.
>
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:14:17 -0700 (PDT), "nospam_paque...@uwo.ca"
>
> <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote:
> >On Saturday I added a second router (a DLink WBR 2310) because I now
> >have one wireless machine running “N” protocol and thus need to use
> >WPA encryption on the DIR-625 which makes its wireless service
> >unavailable to the legacy “g” protocol (hence WEP encryption only)
> >devices in the house.

>
> --
>
> Barb Bowman
> MS-MVPhttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspxhttp://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com


In particular, a copy of Pocket PCs--one running CE 2003 as I remember
and the other, also a cell phone, running Windows Mobile 5. Neither
has provision for WPA.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008
nospam_paquette@uwo.ca
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
On Jul 21, 10:29 pm, "Jack \(MVP-Networking\)."
<j...@discussiongroup.com> wrote:
> Hi
> You created two independent Networks and the mapping can not cross from one
> Network to the other.
> If your modem is a combo Modem/Router then you actually have triple NAT,or
> if it is a Modem only then you try to Map trough the combo of two LANs and
> the Internet
> Connect the second Router as an Access Point to the main Router and
> configure one cohesive Network.
> Here is the principle, Wireless Router as an Access Point -http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
> Jack (MS, MVP-Networking)
>
> <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:a2ac399a-759d-4f86-bb93-ed7d77dc3715@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> For quite some time I have used a DLink DIR-625 router for home
> networking (DLS connection). I rely heavily on MirrorFolder running
> on top of PPTP VPN to mirror my work files on a regular basis to
> various machines at two different sites. Doing so obviously requires
> the ability to map to folders on all machines involved in the mirror
> relationships.
>
> On Saturday I added a second router (a DLink WBR 2310) because I now
> have one wireless machine running “N” protocol and thus need to use
> WPA encryption on the DIR-625 which makes its wireless service
> unavailable to the legacy “g” protocol (hence WEP encryption only)
> devices in the house. Basically everything went well except for one
> small but very important detail. I no longer am able to map from my
> main work machine on the DIR-625 to my laptop on the WBR 2310.
> Attempts to use Net Use to map to a drive on the laptop from my main
> desktop work machine result in a system error 53 (“the network path
> was not found”).
>
> Both routers are plugged directly into ports on my DLS modem.
> Everything seems normal in all respects except my inability to map
> from my desktop to my laptop. The laptop has no problem, for
> instance, logging into VPN but also cannot map back to my desktop
> either.
>
> So in a nutshell, I have machines on two separate NAT routers logged
> into the same DSL modem and file/folder mapping fails from computers
> on one router to computers on the other router. Is there a way to
> make this work? If so, how does one do so?
>
> Although it is likely completely irrelevant to this issue my desktop
> is a multiboot on which I normally in Vista and my laptop is XP/SP2.
> The VPN service is provided by my employer.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!


I actually considered this but I don't think there's a way to reset
the address of a DLink router and surely this would not work if they
were both on the same address. I'll check again to see if there's a
way I can modify the address of the second router.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008
nospam_paquette@uwo.ca
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
On Jul 22, 6:42 am, "nospam_paque...@uwo.ca" <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote:
> On Jul 21, 10:29 pm, "Jack \(MVP-Networking\)."
>
>
>
> <j...@discussiongroup.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> > You created two independent Networks and the mapping can not cross fromone
> > Network to the other.
> > If your modem is a combo Modem/Router then you actually have triple NAT,or
> > if it is a Modem only then you try to Map trough the combo of two LANs and
> > the Internet
> > Connect the second Router as an Access Point to the main Router and
> > configure one cohesive Network.
> > Here is the principle, Wireless Router as an Access Point -http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
> > Jack (MS, MVP-Networking)

>
> > <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote in message

>
> >news:a2ac399a-759d-4f86-bb93-ed7d77dc3715@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > For quite some time I have used a DLink DIR-625 router for home
> > networking (DLS connection). I rely heavily on MirrorFolder running
> > on top of PPTP VPN to mirror my work files on a regular basis to
> > various machines at two different sites. Doing so obviously requires
> > the ability to map to folders on all machines involved in the mirror
> > relationships.

>
> > On Saturday I added a second router (a DLink WBR 2310) because I now
> > have one wireless machine running “N” protocol and thus need to use
> > WPA encryption on the DIR-625 which makes its wireless service
> > unavailable to the legacy “g” protocol (hence WEP encryption only)
> > devices in the house. Basically everything went well except for one
> > small but very important detail. I no longer am able to map from my
> > main work machine on the DIR-625 to my laptop on the WBR 2310.
> > Attempts to use Net Use to map to a drive on the laptop from my main
> > desktop work machine result in a system error 53 (“the network path
> > was not found”).

>
> > Both routers are plugged directly into ports on my DLS modem.
> > Everything seems normal in all respects except my inability to map
> > from my desktop to my laptop. The laptop has no problem, for
> > instance, logging into VPN but also cannot map back to my desktop
> > either.

>
> > So in a nutshell, I have machines on two separate NAT routers logged
> > into the same DSL modem and file/folder mapping fails from computers
> > on one router to computers on the other router. Is there a way to
> > make this work? If so, how does one do so?

>
> > Although it is likely completely irrelevant to this issue my desktop
> > is a multiboot on which I normally in Vista and my laptop is XP/SP2.
> > The VPN service is provided by my employer.

>
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated!

>
> I actually considered this but I don't think there's a way to reset
> the address of a DLink router and surely this would not work if they
> were both on the same address. I'll check again to see if there's a
> way I can modify the address of the second router.


Well, on closer reading, I actually considered something similar--not
exactly the passive-switch approach described. In any case it seems
that I wouldn't get the two-encryption capability with the passive-
switch arrangement--or am I missing something here? I was thinking in
terms of having the 625 assign a fixed IP to the second router, the
using the IP input option on the second router and still running two
separate networks. Only problem was I couldn't find a way to reset
the second router's IP.

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008
nospam_paquette@uwo.ca
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
On Jul 22, 7:10 am, "nospam_paque...@uwo.ca" <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 6:42 am, "nospam_paque...@uwo.ca" <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 21, 10:29 pm, "Jack \(MVP-Networking\)."

>
> > <j...@discussiongroup.com> wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > You created two independent Networks and the mapping can not cross from one
> > > Network to the other.
> > > If your modem is a combo Modem/Router then you actually have triple NAT,or
> > > if it is a Modem only then you try to Map trough the combo of two LANs and
> > > the Internet
> > > Connect the second Router as an Access Point to the main Router and
> > > configure one cohesive Network.
> > > Here is the principle, Wireless Router as an Access Point -http://www..ezlan.net/router_AP.html
> > > Jack (MS, MVP-Networking)

>
> > > <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote in message

>
> > >news:a2ac399a-759d-4f86-bb93-ed7d77dc3715@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com....
> > > For quite some time I have used a DLink DIR-625 router for home
> > > networking (DLS connection). I rely heavily on MirrorFolder running
> > > on top of PPTP VPN to mirror my work files on a regular basis to
> > > various machines at two different sites. Doing so obviously requires
> > > the ability to map to folders on all machines involved in the mirror
> > > relationships.

>
> > > On Saturday I added a second router (a DLink WBR 2310) because I now
> > > have one wireless machine running “N” protocol and thus need to use
> > > WPA encryption on the DIR-625 which makes its wireless service
> > > unavailable to the legacy “g” protocol (hence WEP encryption only)
> > > devices in the house. Basically everything went well except for one
> > > small but very important detail. I no longer am able to map from my
> > > main work machine on the DIR-625 to my laptop on the WBR 2310.
> > > Attempts to use Net Use to map to a drive on the laptop from my main
> > > desktop work machine result in a system error 53 (“the network path
> > > was not found”).

>
> > > Both routers are plugged directly into ports on my DLS modem.
> > > Everything seems normal in all respects except my inability to map
> > > from my desktop to my laptop. The laptop has no problem, for
> > > instance, logging into VPN but also cannot map back to my desktop
> > > either.

>
> > > So in a nutshell, I have machines on two separate NAT routers logged
> > > into the same DSL modem and file/folder mapping fails from computers
> > > on one router to computers on the other router. Is there a way to
> > > make this work? If so, how does one do so?

>
> > > Although it is likely completely irrelevant to this issue my desktop
> > > is a multiboot on which I normally in Vista and my laptop is XP/SP2.
> > > The VPN service is provided by my employer.

>
> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated!

>
> > I actually considered this but I don't think there's a way to reset
> > the address of a DLink router and surely this would not work if they
> > were both on the same address. I'll check again to see if there's a
> > way I can modify the address of the second router.

>
> Well, on closer reading, I actually considered something similar--not
> exactly the passive-switch approach described. In any case it seems
> that I wouldn't get the two-encryption capability with the passive-
> switch arrangement--or am I missing something here? I was thinking in
> terms of having the 625 assign a fixed IP to the second router, the
> using the IP input option on the second router and still running two
> separate networks. Only problem was I couldn't find a way to reset
> the second router's IP.


After a bit of thought I can see why the passive-switch arrangement is
probably the only one that would work and that it would allow the
desired two WIRELESS networks with the two encryption systems--but
with only the 625 doing assigning IPs, hence only one real network.
That should solve my immediate problem if I can figure out how to
modify the second router's ip.

Many thanks for the suggestion.

All of this begs another question that has always bothered me,
however, and I think it is directly related. Is there any way of
mapping on top of VPN (instead of just using RDP--which, in any case
assumes one has dynamicDNS access to the target machine!) when one is
out on the road (e.g., from one's laptop in a hotel back to a machine
at home)? I have never been able to do that yet it seems just the
sort of thing VPN was invented to do. A VPN that doesn't allow
mapping freely to and from all machines on it seems rather lame as a
"virtual personal network!"
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2008
Barb Bowman
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
that's too bad. (I got rid of my old pocket pc's because of the
security issue. I didn't want to compromise the security of my
network for one device. )

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:38:53 -0700 (PDT), "nospam_paquette@uwo.ca"
<paquette@uwo.ca> wrote:

>In particular, a copy of Pocket PCs--one running CE 2003 as I remember
>and the other, also a cell phone, running Windows Mobile 5. Neither
>has provision for WPA.

--

Barb Bowman
MS-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2008
nospam_paquette@uwo.ca
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
On Jul 22, 2:30 pm, Barb Bowman <b...@nospam.com> wrote:
> that's too bad. (I got rid of my old pocket pc's because of the
> security issue. I didn't want to compromise the security of my
> network for one device. )
>
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:38:53 -0700 (PDT), "nospam_paque...@uwo.ca"
>
> <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote:
> >In particular, a copy of Pocket PCs--one running CE 2003 as I remember
> >and the other, also a cell phone, running Windows Mobile 5. Neither
> >has provision for WPA.

>
> --
>
> Barb Bowman
> MS-MVPhttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspxhttp://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com


I hear you!

Any thoughts on why (I am quite sure our VPN is configured to act as a
router) I can't/shouldn't be able to VPN into a home machine from a
hotel room???
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2008
nospam_paquette@uwo.ca
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't map across dual NAT routers connected to same DSL modem
On Jul 23, 9:38 am, "nospam_paque...@uwo.ca" <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2:30 pm, Barb Bowman <b...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > that's too bad. (I got rid of my old pocket pc's because of the
> > security issue. I didn't want to compromise the security of my
> > network for one device. )

>
> > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:38:53 -0700 (PDT), "nospam_paque...@uwo.ca"

>
> > <paque...@uwo.ca> wrote:
> > >In particular, a copy of Pocket PCs--one running CE 2003 as I remember
> > >and the other, also a cell phone, running Windows Mobile 5. Neither
> > >has provision for WPA.

>
> > --

>
> > Barb Bowman
> > MS-MVPhttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx...

>
> I hear you!
>
> Any thoughts on why (I am quite sure our VPN is configured to act as a
> router) I can't/shouldn't be able to VPN into a home machine from a
> hotel room???


PS--once I figured out where the settings were on my second router,
this process worked like a charm--of course the chain is only as good
as its weakest link and that's WEP at the moment. I'll have to try to
budget for new handhelds sometime in the not-too-distant future.
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