Ambiguous message when exploring network

When I explore Network a yellow bar appears "File sharing is turned off.
Some network computers and devices might not be visible. Click to change..."

Why wouldn't I be able to see other computers and devices if I'm not
allowing incoming connections for file sharing? Core networking is active
which enables ICMP. No outgoing rules are active. Give me one example.

Hi Mike,

the reson for this is your able to see computers beacuse of LLTD
Link Layer Topology Discovery (LLTD) protocol operates over wired
(802.3 Ethernet) and wireless (802.11) media. As the protocol name
suggests, the core functions of LLTD enable applications to discover the
topology of a network. In addition, LLTD has optional QoS Extensions
that applications can use to diagnose problems, especially those
involving signal strength on wireless networks or bandwidth constraints
in home networks.
This is not with regard to file sharing.

Hope this Helps
Cheers !!


--
john_cena

-Shihan Sylvester Pietersz-
-(MCP,MCSA,MCSE+Security,MCSE+Messeging-
-MCTS,MCITP)-
-Systems -::-Engineer / Consultant Trainer- ::

On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:07:22 +1000, "Mike" <reply@to.group> wrote:

>When I explore Network a yellow bar appears "File sharing is turned off.
>Some network computers and devices might not be visible. Click to change..."
>
>Why wouldn't I be able to see other computers and devices if I'm not
>allowing incoming connections for file sharing? Core networking is active
>which enables ICMP. No outgoing rules are active. Give me one example.

Mike,

The ability to see other computers involves Server Message Blocks (SMBs) which
provide content for a service known as the browser (not to be confused with
Internet Explorer). There are up to 3 computers involved in the browser process
- the client computer (that you're sitting in front of), the browser server that
provides the browse list for your computer, and the master browser server.
<http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005...lways-see.html

Any one of those 3 computers, if SMBs are blocked, could cause problems with
exploring Network.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://networking.nitecruzr.net/

Dear john_cena,

Firewall rules for file sharing have no effect on LLTD. The network
discovery rules allow LLTD.

This still leaves my question unanswered.

Kind regards,
Mike.



"john_cena" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message
news:c4349aa64cbbe344bdc2bf88178f1a8d@nntp-gateway.com...
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> the reson for this is your able to see computers beacuse of LLTD
> Link Layer Topology Discovery (LLTD) protocol operates over wired
> (802.3 Ethernet) and wireless (802.11) media. As the protocol name
> suggests, the core functions of LLTD enable applications to discover the
> topology of a network. In addition, LLTD has optional QoS Extensions
> that applications can use to diagnose problems, especially those
> involving signal strength on wireless networks or bandwidth constraints
> in home networks.
> This is not with regard to file sharing.
>
> Hope this Helps
> Cheers !!
>
>
> --
> john_cena
>
> -Shihan Sylvester Pietersz-
> -(MCP,MCSA,MCSE+Security,MCSE+Messeging-
> -MCTS,MCITP)-
> -Systems -::-Engineer / Consultant Trainer- ::

"Chuck [MVP]" <none@example.net> wrote in message
news:mtg034h3k7svj3bs20cdk6q25ftdv8tg18@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:07:22 +1000, "Mike" <reply@to.group> wrote:
>
>>When I explore Network a yellow bar appears "File sharing is turned off.
>>Some network computers and devices might not be visible. Click to
>>change..."
>>
>>Why wouldn't I be able to see other computers and devices if I'm not
>>allowing incoming connections for file sharing? Core networking is active
>>which enables ICMP. No outgoing rules are active. Give me one example.
>
> Mike,
>
> The ability to see other computers involves Server Message Blocks (SMBs)
> which
> provide content for a service known as the browser (not to be confused
> with
> Internet Explorer). There are up to 3 computers involved in the browser
> process
> - the client computer (that you're sitting in front of), the browser
> server that
> provides the browse list for your computer, and the master browser server.
> <http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
> http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005...lways-see.html
>
> Any one of those 3 computers, if SMBs are blocked, could cause problems
> with
> exploring Network.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
> http://networking.nitecruzr.net/

Chuck,

I disagree with that. If I am blocking SMB on my computer that means that
the two other machines may not see me. It also means the master browser may
not see me, hence if someone queries it it wont return my name.

However I can see everybody else, since neither of the two other computers
have SMB blocked. When I query the master browser I get the other two
machines and myself. All three. I can see every machine that is responding
to SMB requests, regardless of the state of my firewall rules from file and
print sharing. The message makes no sense.

Mike.

On Tue, 20 May 2008 00:15:43 +1000, "Mike" <reply@to.group> wrote:

>"Chuck [MVP]" <none@example.net> wrote in message
>news:mtg034h3k7svj3bs20cdk6q25ftdv8tg18@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:07:22 +1000, "Mike" <reply@to.group> wrote:
>>
>>>When I explore Network a yellow bar appears "File sharing is turned off.
>>>Some network computers and devices might not be visible. Click to
>>>change..."
>>>
>>>Why wouldn't I be able to see other computers and devices if I'm not
>>>allowing incoming connections for file sharing? Core networking is active
>>>which enables ICMP. No outgoing rules are active. Give me one example.
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> The ability to see other computers involves Server Message Blocks (SMBs)
>> which
>> provide content for a service known as the browser (not to be confused
>> with
>> Internet Explorer). There are up to 3 computers involved in the browser
>> process
>> - the client computer (that you're sitting in front of), the browser
>> server that
>> provides the browse list for your computer, and the master browser server.
>> <http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
>> http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005...lways-see.html
>>
>> Any one of those 3 computers, if SMBs are blocked, could cause problems
>> with
>> exploring Network.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
>> http://networking.nitecruzr.net/
>
>Chuck,
>
>I disagree with that. If I am blocking SMB on my computer that means that
>the two other machines may not see me. It also means the master browser may
>not see me, hence if someone queries it it wont return my name.
>
>However I can see everybody else, since neither of the two other computers
>have SMB blocked. When I query the master browser I get the other two
>machines and myself. All three. I can see every machine that is responding
>to SMB requests, regardless of the state of my firewall rules from file and
>print sharing. The message makes no sense.
>
>Mike.

Mike,

I've long ago learned to disassociate "makes sense" from "Microsoft Windows".

Even so, the visibility of other computers is going to vary - widely - depending
upon the relative roles of the master browser (providing the browse list), the
target computer (server being sought), and source computer (where you are
examining the browse list). And in large LANs, the browser servicing the client
may be different from the master browser.

The message says "might not be visible". It's similar to "limited or no
connectivity", it's there to advise the less experienced users to look for a
possible problem.

If you're going to focus your knowledge on what "makes sense", I don't think
that you'll be using a computer a lot.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://networking.nitecruzr.net/

"Chuck [MVP]" <none@example.net> wrote in message
news:s480445p8h3m9c381tp9c6gpfp1qhqa27f@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 May 2008 00:15:43 +1000, "Mike" <reply@to.group> wrote:
>
>>"Chuck [MVP]" <none@example.net> wrote in message
>>news:mtg034h3k7svj3bs20cdk6q25ftdv8tg18@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 23:07:22 +1000, "Mike" <reply@to.group> wrote:
>>>
>>>>When I explore Network a yellow bar appears "File sharing is turned off.
>>>>Some network computers and devices might not be visible. Click to
>>>>change..."
>>>>
>>>>Why wouldn't I be able to see other computers and devices if I'm not
>>>>allowing incoming connections for file sharing? Core networking is
>>>>active
>>>>which enables ICMP. No outgoing rules are active. Give me one example.
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> The ability to see other computers involves Server Message Blocks (SMBs)
>>> which
>>> provide content for a service known as the browser (not to be confused
>>> with
>>> Internet Explorer). There are up to 3 computers involved in the browser
>>> process
>>> - the client computer (that you're sitting in front of), the browser
>>> server that
>>> provides the browse list for your computer, and the master browser
>>> server.
>>> <http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
>>> http://networking.nitecruzr.net/2005...lways-see.html
>>>
>>> Any one of those 3 computers, if SMBs are blocked, could cause problems
>>> with
>>> exploring Network.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
>>> http://networking.nitecruzr.net/
>>
>>Chuck,
>>
>>I disagree with that. If I am blocking SMB on my computer that means that
>>the two other machines may not see me. It also means the master browser
>>may
>>not see me, hence if someone queries it it wont return my name.
>>
>>However I can see everybody else, since neither of the two other computers
>>have SMB blocked. When I query the master browser I get the other two
>>machines and myself. All three. I can see every machine that is
>>responding
>>to SMB requests, regardless of the state of my firewall rules from file
>>and
>>print sharing. The message makes no sense.
>>
>>Mike.
>
> Mike,
>
> I've long ago learned to disassociate "makes sense" from "Microsoft
> Windows".
>
> Even so, the visibility of other computers is going to vary - widely -
> depending
> upon the relative roles of the master browser (providing the browse list),
> the
> target computer (server being sought), and source computer (where you are
> examining the browse list). And in large LANs, the browser servicing the
> client
> may be different from the master browser.
>
> The message says "might not be visible". It's similar to "limited or no
> connectivity", it's there to advise the less experienced users to look for
> a
> possible problem.
>
> If you're going to focus your knowledge on what "makes sense", I don't
> think
> that you'll be using a computer a lot.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
> http://networking.nitecruzr.net/

Hi Chuck,

I agree with you there - the only reason I am raising this issue is that
when the novice user clicks the message, it _unnecessarily_ enables the
firewall rules for network discovery, thus weakening the firewall. This is
undesirable behaviour.



Regards,

Mike.