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very very slow network - sometimes

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007
A.Translator
 

Posts: n/a
very very slow network - sometimes
I have a small cabled network with three XP machines and one Vista Home Premium
laptop. Internet is no problem. The XP machines have no problem seeing Vista's
shared files. But the Vista laptop somtimes takes ages before it sees the XP
machines, sometimes it is almost immediate. That bugs me: there is no
consistency. With exactly the same settings Vista will sometimes take up to
half an hour (!) to see the XP machines and sometimes "only" minutes (once
Vista sees the XP boxes, it can drag files and things over normally).

Any ideas how to remedy this?

--
Groet,
Adriana
[ gooi de vuilnis weg als je me wilt mailen ]
www.spinsister.nl


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007
Chuck [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 10:44:06 +0100, A.Translator <transVUILlatoria@yaNIShoo.com>
wrote:

>I have a small cabled network with three XP machines and one Vista Home Premium
>laptop. Internet is no problem. The XP machines have no problem seeing Vista's
>shared files. But the Vista laptop somtimes takes ages before it sees the XP
>machines, sometimes it is almost immediate. That bugs me: there is no
>consistency. With exactly the same settings Vista will sometimes take up to
>half an hour (!) to see the XP machines and sometimes "only" minutes (once
>Vista sees the XP boxes, it can drag files and things over normally).
>
>Any ideas how to remedy this?


Adriana,

What exactly are you doing when you measure this mysterious time before one
computer "sees" the other? What do you do to change things, after that time,
until the next time? Are you turning computers off (which computers?), are you
rebooting computers (which computers?), do you log off computers (which
computers?)?

Where does the Vista computer "see" the XP computer? The Network window, or the
Network Map? These are 2 different things.

There are a number of issues which computers running Windows Vista can introduce
into a network.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/12/windows-xp-and-vista-on-lan-together.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/1...-together.html

The RWin Auto Tuning problem seems to affect local connections.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2007/06/autotuning-in-vista-maybe-not-ready-for.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2007/0...ready-for.html

And look at your protocol stack.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/fix-network-problems-but-clean-up.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...-clean-up.html

Finally, look at the network setup as a whole. Compare logs from "browstat
status", "ipconfig /all", "net config server", and "net config workstation",
from each computer. Read this article, and linked articles, and follow
instructions precisely (download browstat!) (note how to use the command window
in Vista):
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...#AskingForHelp

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-11-2007
A.Translator
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
Wow, that is a ton of information, lots of it way above my head, but I will
look into it. Thank you.

As I said, though: once it works, it works without a glitch, so I must be doing
something right.

>What exactly are you doing when you measure this mysterious time before one
>computer "sees" the other?


I am not a native English speaker, but thought that computers in networks saw
each other, ie recognised each other's existence and allowing each other to
transport files back and forth. Any way, that is what I mean by "seeing".

> What do you do to change things, after that time,
>until the next time? Are you turning computers off (which computers?), are
>ryou ebooting computers (which computers?), do you log off computers (which
>computers?)?


Once the network works, there is no time lap. The minutes-long wait occurs
after switching off the Vista machine. When restarting that one, the network is
sometimes accesible after several seconds or minutes, sometimes indeed only
after half an hour. I have been trying to find out if things get sped up by my
actively using the Vista machine, in stead of just staring at it. So far I
haven't noticed any difference (but I have no professional bench mark
instruments) with lots or less activity. I can't keep on looking at the
Network window (or folder, I mean the one that pops up after clicking "network"
in de Menu Start) so I do turn my attention to other things on the Vista.
Internet, Word, that sort of thing. And then, sometimes, when I go back to
Network, lo and behold the other computers are there. But sometimes they are
still invisible.

I am in the process of transporting files and settings from my Windows Desktop
to my Vista Laptop, so I do get to look in Network quite often.

--
Groet,
Adriana
[ gooi de vuilnis weg als je me wilt mailen ]
www.spinsister.nl


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007
Chuck [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 17:09:44 +0100, A.Translator <transVUILlatoria@yaNIShoo.com>
wrote:

>Wow, that is a ton of information, lots of it way above my head, but I will
>look into it. Thank you.
>
>As I said, though: once it works, it works without a glitch, so I must be doing
>something right.
>
>>What exactly are you doing when you measure this mysterious time before one
>>computer "sees" the other?

>
>I am not a native English speaker, but thought that computers in networks saw
>each other, ie recognised each other's existence and allowing each other to
>transport files back and forth. Any way, that is what I mean by "seeing".
>
>> What do you do to change things, after that time,
>>until the next time? Are you turning computers off (which computers?), are
>>ryou ebooting computers (which computers?), do you log off computers (which
>>computers?)?

>
>Once the network works, there is no time lap. The minutes-long wait occurs
>after switching off the Vista machine. When restarting that one, the network is
>sometimes accesible after several seconds or minutes, sometimes indeed only
>after half an hour. I have been trying to find out if things get sped up by my
>actively using the Vista machine, in stead of just staring at it. So far I
>haven't noticed any difference (but I have no professional bench mark
>instruments) with lots or less activity. I can't keep on looking at the
>Network window (or folder, I mean the one that pops up after clicking "network"
>in de Menu Start) so I do turn my attention to other things on the Vista.
>Internet, Word, that sort of thing. And then, sometimes, when I go back to
>Network, lo and behold the other computers are there. But sometimes they are
>still invisible.
>
>I am in the process of transporting files and settings from my Windows Desktop
>to my Vista Laptop, so I do get to look in Network quite often.


Read it as best you can, and ask questions. Writing about it from scratch is
not something I try to do frequently. Most of it I wrote to explain the details
to myself, so I sympathise with you when you say "way above my head", because it
feels that way to me too sometimes. There are an almost infinite amount of
details, that make YOUR network work the way YOU want it to (when you get them
right of course).

There's no magical, built-in ability of "computers in networks to see each
other". What YOU observe in My Network Places ("Network" in Vista) is the
output of a painfully complex subsystem known as the NT Browser (please don't
confuse this with Internet Explorer etc). The browser is a peer-peer resource
enumeration facility. I think this article is a bit lighter on technical
detail.
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...lways-see.html

I really like the RWin Auto Tuning issue right now, as one factor in your
problem. If that's not a possible improvement, then run the logs I suggest and
we'll peruse them. But give the article above a read too, as it is the core of
your symptoms.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007
A.Translator
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
Chuck [MVP] schreef op 12-11-2007
> I really like the RWin Auto Tuning issue right now, as one factor in your
> problem. If that's not a possible improvement


I will try the logs once I got my nerve back:
just went into the command prompt in Vista and typed:
netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=disabled {enter}

(it was never the Internet that wasn't accessible, just my local network)

then restarted and tried again: no improvements in network speed.
By then I was sweating heavily and feeling very nervous so I thought I'd turn
this autotuning back on by typing in the command window:

netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=enabled {enter}

On which Windows responed: cannot execute command, incorrect parameter. (or
words to that effect; my Windows speaks Dutch).

So how do I get things back to where they were?

I think I'd rather put up with the long wait before I can get files from other
computers in the network than go trough this nerve wracking experience again.

Hey, wait! Just restarted the Vista laptop again, after (unsuccesfully) trying
to re-enable autotuning, and the whole network is instantly visible and
accesible! Was the autotuning the cause after all? Do I have to go and look for
a new modem/router now?

Just tried again and restarted the Vista laptop: back to the old situation,
network not yet visible. Does the command only work the once? One 'session'? Is
that why I couldn't / shouldn't try to turn autotuning back on?

Thanks a lot for your patience and information.

--
Groet,
Adriana
[ gooi de vuilnis weg als je me wilt mailen ]
www.spinsister.nl


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2007
A.Translator
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
A.Translator schreef op 12-11-2007
> netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=enabled {enter}


Should this have been
netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=normal?

--
Groet,
Adriana
[ gooi de vuilnis weg als je me wilt mailen ]
www.spinsister.nl


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2007
Jeffrey Randow
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=enabled

---
Jeffrey Randow
jeffreycentex@gmail.com
Windows Networking MVP 2001-2006
http://www.networkblog.net

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:54:24 +0100, A.Translator
<transVUILlatoria@yaNIShoo.com> wrote:

>A.Translator schreef op 12-11-2007
>> netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=enabled {enter}

>
>Should this have been
>netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=normal?

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2007
Chuck [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:45:57 -0600, Jeffrey Randow <jeffreycentex@gmail.com>
wrote:

>netsh int tcp set global autotuninglevel=enabled


I don't think anybody knows what Microsoft did with this one.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/934430

Manually determine whether Windows Scaling is being handled incorrectly by the
firewall device. To do this, follow these steps:
1. Click Start button, click All Programs, click Accessories, and then
click Command Prompt.
2. At the command prompt, type the following command, and then press ENTER:
netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled
This command disables the Receive Window Auto-Tuning feature.
3. Try to make a non-HTTP network connection.

Note If the connectivity problem is resolved, contact the manufacturer of the
firewall device for steps to correct the issue.
4. At a command prompt, type the following command, and then press ENTER:
netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=normal
This command enables Receive Window Auto-Tuning again so that you can take
advantage of the increase in network throughput performance that this option
provides

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2007
Chuck [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 11:54:24 +0100, A.Translator <transVUILlatoria@yaNIShoo.com>
wrote:

>A.Translator schreef op 12-11-2007
>> netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=enabled {enter}

>
>Should this have been
>netsh interface tcp set global autotuning=normal?


http://support.microsoft.com/kb/934430

Manually determine whether Windows Scaling is being handled incorrectly by the
firewall device. To do this, follow these steps:
1. Click Start button, click All Programs, click Accessories, and then
click Command Prompt.
2. At the command prompt, type the following command, and then press ENTER:
netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled
This command disables the Receive Window Auto-Tuning feature.
3. Try to make a non-HTTP network connection.

Note If the connectivity problem is resolved, contact the manufacturer of the
firewall device for steps to correct the issue.
4. At a command prompt, type the following command, and then press ENTER:
netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=normal
This command enables Receive Window Auto-Tuning again so that you can take
advantage of the increase in network throughput performance that this option
provides

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2007
A.Translator
 

Posts: n/a
Re: very very slow network - sometimes
Chuck [MVP] schreef op 13-11-2007
> At the command prompt, type the following command, and then press ENTER:
> netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled
> This command disables the Receive Window Auto-Tuning feature.
> 3. Try to make a non-HTTP network connection.


> Note If the connectivity problem is resolved, contact the manufacturer of the
> firewall device for steps to correct the issue.
> 4. At a command prompt, type the following command, and then press ENTER:
> netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=normal
> This command enables Receive Window Auto-Tuning again so that you can take
> advantage of the increase in network throughput performance that this option
> provides


I did all that, and performance seems improved (i.e. the XP-machines show up
within seconds/minutes on the Vista-machine now - nothing like the half hour I
had to wait before), but in fact nothing has changed, since I put auto-tuning
back to normal. Baffling, but I am happy and grateful for your help.

--
Groet,
Adriana
[ gooi de vuilnis weg als je me wilt mailen ]
www.spinsister.nl


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