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Can't connect to router with hidden ssid

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2007
George W. Barrowcliff
 

Posts: n/a
Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
I have the SSID on my wireless router disabled for transmitting.

My new (3 days) Vista Home Laptop could not see this router even though my
old XP Pro Laptop setting right next to it had 100%

I changed the ssid to transmit, then configured a profile and set it to be
the preferred connection for this router and everything worked great. I
reset the router to stop transmitting the ssid.

Whenever I power up the laptop, it will not connect to the hidden ssid
router. The configuration is still there as preferred but simply will not
connect until I change the router to transmit the ssid.

What can I do to force the connection when I am in the range of this router?

TIA


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2007
Steve Riley [MSFT]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
Vista behaves differently with non-broadcasting SSIDs:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb726942.aspx
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661

However, let me encourage you to re-enable broadcast and leave it on. Hiding
your SSID does *not* increase security.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...SecurityWatch/


--
Steve Riley
steve.riley@microsoft.com
http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com


"George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
news:eS#8I0JBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> I have the SSID on my wireless router disabled for transmitting.
>
> My new (3 days) Vista Home Laptop could not see this router even though my
> old XP Pro Laptop setting right next to it had 100%
>
> I changed the ssid to transmit, then configured a profile and set it to be
> the preferred connection for this router and everything worked great. I
> reset the router to stop transmitting the ssid.
>
> Whenever I power up the laptop, it will not connect to the hidden ssid
> router. The configuration is still there as preferred but simply will not
> connect until I change the router to transmit the ssid.
>
> What can I do to force the connection when I am in the range of this
> router?
>
> TIA
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2007
George W. Barrowcliff
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
I have pretty much concluded that I am going to have to leave the SSID in
the broadcast mode, but I have to disagree with you about increasing
security since none of the neighbors with Vista will be able to connect to
my router even if they new the passphrase since they cannot see it(LOL)

GWB

"Steve Riley [MSFT]" <steve.riley@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:e6skCELBIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Vista behaves differently with non-broadcasting SSIDs:
>
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb726942.aspx
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661
>
> However, let me encourage you to re-enable broadcast and leave it on.

Hiding
> your SSID does *not* increase security.
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...SecurityWatch/
>
>
> --
> Steve Riley
> steve.riley@microsoft.com
> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
>
>
> "George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
> news:eS#8I0JBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> > I have the SSID on my wireless router disabled for transmitting.
> >
> > My new (3 days) Vista Home Laptop could not see this router even though

my
> > old XP Pro Laptop setting right next to it had 100%
> >
> > I changed the ssid to transmit, then configured a profile and set it to

be
> > the preferred connection for this router and everything worked great. I
> > reset the router to stop transmitting the ssid.
> >
> > Whenever I power up the laptop, it will not connect to the hidden ssid
> > router. The configuration is still there as preferred but simply will

not
> > connect until I change the router to transmit the ssid.
> >
> > What can I do to force the connection when I am in the range of this
> > router?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> >



Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2007
Mick Murphy
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
Why not use at least a WEP Key for Security in your SSID.

"George W. Barrowcliff" wrote:

> I have pretty much concluded that I am going to have to leave the SSID in
> the broadcast mode, but I have to disagree with you about increasing
> security since none of the neighbors with Vista will be able to connect to
> my router even if they new the passphrase since they cannot see it(LOL)
>
> GWB
>
> "Steve Riley [MSFT]" <steve.riley@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:e6skCELBIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> > Vista behaves differently with non-broadcasting SSIDs:
> >
> > http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb726942.aspx
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661
> >
> > However, let me encourage you to re-enable broadcast and leave it on.

> Hiding
> > your SSID does *not* increase security.
> >
> > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...SecurityWatch/
> >
> >
> > --
> > Steve Riley
> > steve.riley@microsoft.com
> > http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
> > http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
> >
> >
> > "George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
> > news:eS#8I0JBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> > > I have the SSID on my wireless router disabled for transmitting.
> > >
> > > My new (3 days) Vista Home Laptop could not see this router even though

> my
> > > old XP Pro Laptop setting right next to it had 100%
> > >
> > > I changed the ssid to transmit, then configured a profile and set it to

> be
> > > the preferred connection for this router and everything worked great. I
> > > reset the router to stop transmitting the ssid.
> > >
> > > Whenever I power up the laptop, it will not connect to the hidden ssid
> > > router. The configuration is still there as preferred but simply will

> not
> > > connect until I change the router to transmit the ssid.
> > >
> > > What can I do to force the connection when I am in the range of this
> > > router?
> > >
> > > TIA
> > >
> > >

>
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2007
Sooner Al [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
"George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
news:%23MXKnKMBIHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>I have pretty much concluded that I am going to have to leave the SSID in
> the broadcast mode, but I have to disagree with you about increasing
> security since none of the neighbors with Vista will be able to connect to
> my router even if they new the passphrase since they cannot see it(LOL)
>
> GWB
>
>
>


If you secure the wireless segment with WPA2 or WPA and use a long random
key then your secure and your neighbors will not be able to access your
network. Personally I use a 63-character random ASCII key and use WPA-PSK
(AES) and broadcast my network SSID.

http://theillustratednetwork.mvps.or...sSecurity.html

--

Al Jarvi (MS-MVP Windows Networking)

Please post *ALL* questions and replies to the news group for the
mutual benefit of all of us...
The MS-MVP Program - http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights...
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2007
Barb Bowman
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
use WPA2 or at least WPA. generate a random pass phrase
the only way WPA can be broken is with a dictionary attack.

Vista has a wizard that will setup a wireless network and generate
this key for you. You plug in a USB key and then plug it into your
Vista and XP computers. If your router doesn't have a USB port and
is not WCN enabled, you can copy the key to the windows clipboard
and paste it into whatever admin pages used by your router.


On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 00:05:59 -0700, "George W. Barrowcliff"
<george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote:

>I have pretty much concluded that I am going to have to leave the SSID in
>the broadcast mode, but I have to disagree with you about increasing
>security since none of the neighbors with Vista will be able to connect to
>my router even if they new the passphrase since they cannot see it(LOL)
>
>GWB
>
>"Steve Riley [MSFT]" <steve.riley@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>news:e6skCELBIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Vista behaves differently with non-broadcasting SSIDs:
>>
>> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb726942.aspx
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661
>>
>> However, let me encourage you to re-enable broadcast and leave it on.

>Hiding
>> your SSID does *not* increase security.
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...SecurityWatch/
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Riley
>> steve.riley@microsoft.com
>> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
>> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
>>
>>
>> "George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
>> news:eS#8I0JBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> > I have the SSID on my wireless router disabled for transmitting.
>> >
>> > My new (3 days) Vista Home Laptop could not see this router even though

>my
>> > old XP Pro Laptop setting right next to it had 100%
>> >
>> > I changed the ssid to transmit, then configured a profile and set it to

>be
>> > the preferred connection for this router and everything worked great. I
>> > reset the router to stop transmitting the ssid.
>> >
>> > Whenever I power up the laptop, it will not connect to the hidden ssid
>> > router. The configuration is still there as preferred but simply will

>not
>> > connect until I change the router to transmit the ssid.
>> >
>> > What can I do to force the connection when I am in the range of this
>> > router?
>> >
>> > TIA
>> >
>> >

>

--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2007
Steve Riley [MSFT]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
As the others have indicated, be sure that you use WPA or WPA2 to secure
your wireless connections. (I'll admit, I was assuming you were doing this
already.)

SSIDs are network names, not passwords. Each time a station connects to a
wireless network, it issues an association frame. This frame contains, in
clear text, the SSID of the network. Furthermore, when you configure XP or
Vista to connect to networks with non-broadcast SSIDs, they will continually
poll for the network, using clear-text frames containing the SSID.

It is a very old, and very incorrect, assumption that hidden SSIDs increase
security. Those who still recommend this approach do not understand how the
802.11 wireless protocol works. When you use WPA or WPA2 to secure your
wireless network, you've built an environment that properly secured.
Knowledge of the SSID here is absolutely useless to an attacker.

--
Steve Riley
steve.riley@microsoft.com
http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com


"George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
news:#MXKnKMBIHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> I have pretty much concluded that I am going to have to leave the SSID in
> the broadcast mode, but I have to disagree with you about increasing
> security since none of the neighbors with Vista will be able to connect to
> my router even if they new the passphrase since they cannot see it(LOL)
>
> GWB
>
> "Steve Riley [MSFT]" <steve.riley@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:e6skCELBIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Vista behaves differently with non-broadcasting SSIDs:
>>
>> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb726942.aspx
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661
>>
>> However, let me encourage you to re-enable broadcast and leave it on.

> Hiding
>> your SSID does *not* increase security.
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...SecurityWatch/
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Riley
>> steve.riley@microsoft.com
>> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
>> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
>>
>>
>> "George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
>> news:eS#8I0JBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> > I have the SSID on my wireless router disabled for transmitting.
>> >
>> > My new (3 days) Vista Home Laptop could not see this router even though

> my
>> > old XP Pro Laptop setting right next to it had 100%
>> >
>> > I changed the ssid to transmit, then configured a profile and set it to

> be
>> > the preferred connection for this router and everything worked great.
>> > I
>> > reset the router to stop transmitting the ssid.
>> >
>> > Whenever I power up the laptop, it will not connect to the hidden ssid
>> > router. The configuration is still there as preferred but simply will

> not
>> > connect until I change the router to transmit the ssid.
>> >
>> > What can I do to force the connection when I am in the range of this
>> > router?
>> >
>> > TIA
>> >
>> >

>
>

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2007
Sergio G.
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
I agree with the non-broadcasting SSID false-security argument. However, in
my case I do not have control of the router. The most strange behaivor I see
is this one: I know that the wifi network is working, I have a profile
created (that had worked in the past), and I can see an "Unnamed Network"
entry on the available network list, that I am sure is the one on my profile.
So this probably is a new issue.
Why Vista, having a corresponding profile cannot make itself aware that the
"Unnamed Network" is the same as the one on the profile?? This is an
intermitent problem. Sometimes I reboot. Sometimes I have to erase the
profile, created again, and then connect.
Any ideas? Thanks!!

"Steve Riley [MSFT]" wrote:

> As the others have indicated, be sure that you use WPA or WPA2 to secure
> your wireless connections. (I'll admit, I was assuming you were doing this
> already.)
>
> SSIDs are network names, not passwords. Each time a station connects to a
> wireless network, it issues an association frame. This frame contains, in
> clear text, the SSID of the network. Furthermore, when you configure XP or
> Vista to connect to networks with non-broadcast SSIDs, they will continually
> poll for the network, using clear-text frames containing the SSID.
>
> It is a very old, and very incorrect, assumption that hidden SSIDs increase
> security. Those who still recommend this approach do not understand how the
> 802.11 wireless protocol works. When you use WPA or WPA2 to secure your
> wireless network, you've built an environment that properly secured.
> Knowledge of the SSID here is absolutely useless to an attacker.
>
> --
> Steve Riley
> steve.riley@microsoft.com
> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
>
>
> "George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
> news:#MXKnKMBIHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> > I have pretty much concluded that I am going to have to leave the SSID in
> > the broadcast mode, but I have to disagree with you about increasing
> > security since none of the neighbors with Vista will be able to connect to
> > my router even if they new the passphrase since they cannot see it(LOL)
> >
> > GWB
> >
> > "Steve Riley [MSFT]" <steve.riley@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:e6skCELBIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> >> Vista behaves differently with non-broadcasting SSIDs:
> >>
> >> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb726942.aspx
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661
> >>
> >> However, let me encourage you to re-enable broadcast and leave it on.

> > Hiding
> >> your SSID does *not* increase security.
> >>
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...SecurityWatch/
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steve Riley
> >> steve.riley@microsoft.com
> >> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
> >> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
> >>
> >>
> >> "George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
> >> news:eS#8I0JBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> > I have the SSID on my wireless router disabled for transmitting.
> >> >
> >> > My new (3 days) Vista Home Laptop could not see this router even though

> > my
> >> > old XP Pro Laptop setting right next to it had 100%
> >> >
> >> > I changed the ssid to transmit, then configured a profile and set it to

> > be
> >> > the preferred connection for this router and everything worked great.
> >> > I
> >> > reset the router to stop transmitting the ssid.
> >> >
> >> > Whenever I power up the laptop, it will not connect to the hidden ssid
> >> > router. The configuration is still there as preferred but simply will

> > not
> >> > connect until I change the router to transmit the ssid.
> >> >
> >> > What can I do to force the connection when I am in the range of this
> >> > router?
> >> >
> >> > TIA
> >> >
> >> >

> >
> >

>

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2007
Barb Bowman
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Can't connect to router with hidden ssid
why not ask the person that controls the router to change the
setting?

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:57:03 -0700, Sergio G. <Sergio
G.@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I agree with the non-broadcasting SSID false-security argument. However, in
>my case I do not have control of the router. The most strange behaivor I see
>is this one: I know that the wifi network is working, I have a profile
>created (that had worked in the past), and I can see an "Unnamed Network"
>entry on the available network list, that I am sure is the one on my profile.
>So this probably is a new issue.
>Why Vista, having a corresponding profile cannot make itself aware that the
>"Unnamed Network" is the same as the one on the profile?? This is an
>intermitent problem. Sometimes I reboot. Sometimes I have to erase the
>profile, created again, and then connect.
>Any ideas? Thanks!!
>
>"Steve Riley [MSFT]" wrote:
>
>> As the others have indicated, be sure that you use WPA or WPA2 to secure
>> your wireless connections. (I'll admit, I was assuming you were doing this
>> already.)
>>
>> SSIDs are network names, not passwords. Each time a station connects to a
>> wireless network, it issues an association frame. This frame contains, in
>> clear text, the SSID of the network. Furthermore, when you configure XP or
>> Vista to connect to networks with non-broadcast SSIDs, they will continually
>> poll for the network, using clear-text frames containing the SSID.
>>
>> It is a very old, and very incorrect, assumption that hidden SSIDs increase
>> security. Those who still recommend this approach do not understand how the
>> 802.11 wireless protocol works. When you use WPA or WPA2 to secure your
>> wireless network, you've built an environment that properly secured.
>> Knowledge of the SSID here is absolutely useless to an attacker.
>>
>> --
>> Steve Riley
>> steve.riley@microsoft.com
>> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
>> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
>>
>>
>> "George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
>> news:#MXKnKMBIHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> > I have pretty much concluded that I am going to have to leave the SSID in
>> > the broadcast mode, but I have to disagree with you about increasing
>> > security since none of the neighbors with Vista will be able to connect to
>> > my router even if they new the passphrase since they cannot see it(LOL)
>> >
>> > GWB
>> >
>> > "Steve Riley [MSFT]" <steve.riley@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> > news:e6skCELBIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> >> Vista behaves differently with non-broadcasting SSIDs:
>> >>
>> >> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb726942.aspx
>> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929661
>> >>
>> >> However, let me encourage you to re-enable broadcast and leave it on.
>> > Hiding
>> >> your SSID does *not* increase security.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tec...SecurityWatch/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Steve Riley
>> >> steve.riley@microsoft.com
>> >> http://blogs.technet.com/steriley
>> >> http://www.protectyourwindowsnetwork.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "George W. Barrowcliff" <george.barrowcliff@flash.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:eS#8I0JBIHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> >> > I have the SSID on my wireless router disabled for transmitting.
>> >> >
>> >> > My new (3 days) Vista Home Laptop could not see this router even though
>> > my
>> >> > old XP Pro Laptop setting right next to it had 100%
>> >> >
>> >> > I changed the ssid to transmit, then configured a profile and set it to
>> > be
>> >> > the preferred connection for this router and everything worked great.
>> >> > I
>> >> > reset the router to stop transmitting the ssid.
>> >> >
>> >> > Whenever I power up the laptop, it will not connect to the hidden ssid
>> >> > router. The configuration is still there as preferred but simply will
>> > not
>> >> > connect until I change the router to transmit the ssid.
>> >> >
>> >> > What can I do to force the connection when I am in the range of this
>> >> > router?
>> >> >
>> >> > TIA
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >

>>

--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
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