Microsoft Windows Vista Community Forums - Vistaheads
Recommended Download



Welcome to the Microsoft Windows Vista Community Forums - Vistaheads, YOUR Largest Resource for Windows Vista related information.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so , join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Driver Scanner

Choppy Playback of Burned DVD

microsoft.public.windows.vista.music pictures video






Speedup My PC
Reply
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2007
MSUTech
 

Posts: n/a
Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
Hello All,

I have a lot of home movies that, through IEEE 1394, I put on our home
laptop. PREVIOUSLY I was able to select the setting of 2.1 mbps, for the
speed of the movie.

When I burn those 2.1 mbps movies to DVD, from Windows Vista, the dvds look
great.

NOW, in Windows Vista, I don't seem to have an option of what speed I want
to save these movies at, when I am transferring them from my video camera,
through IEEE 1394 - I think it defaults to 4 mbps.

MY PROBLEM: If I create a dvd from these new 4 mbps videos, that dvd is very
choppy and really hard to watch. I tried to use movie maker to drop it to 3
mbps, then create another dvd, but, the movie is still choppy.

Can someone help me determine the best way to take my home movies, from my
camera, and get them to DVD, without being so choppy?

thanks,
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2007
Adam Albright
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:36:13 -0700, MSUTech
<MSUTech@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>I have a lot of home movies that, through IEEE 1394, I put on our home
>laptop. PREVIOUSLY I was able to select the setting of 2.1 mbps, for the
>speed of the movie.
>
>When I burn those 2.1 mbps movies to DVD, from Windows Vista, the dvds look
>great.
>
>NOW, in Windows Vista, I don't seem to have an option of what speed I want
>to save these movies at, when I am transferring them from my video camera,
>through IEEE 1394 - I think it defaults to 4 mbps.
>
>MY PROBLEM: If I create a dvd from these new 4 mbps videos, that dvd is very
>choppy and really hard to watch. I tried to use movie maker to drop it to 3
>mbps, then create another dvd, but, the movie is still choppy.
>
>Can someone help me determine the best way to take my home movies, from my
>camera, and get them to DVD, without being so choppy?
>
>thanks,


Just for your information Mbps has nothing to do with speed, it is the
overall QUALITY at which the video is encoded at. The higher the
bitrate the better the quality, however don't get tricked into
assuming you can take a low bitrate source file and make it "better"
just by re encoding at a higher bitrate. That don't work.

Speed for videos is determined by the frame rate which is how many
frames happen per second of playback. For North America, Japan, a few
other countries (see map) the expected frame rate for DVD's is 29.970
frames a second which is based on NTSC specs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC

For the rest of the world it is PAL specs.

As far as your question choppy playback can be caused from several
things. The slower the bitrate the easier it is for the decoder. If
you try to play back a high bitrate video on a under powered PC your
computer may have trouble keeping up, thus choppy playback. How does
the DVD play on a set top DVD player?

You can also get choppy results if the source file is encoded at a low
frame rate. For example if you download some video off the web that
was made on a Web Cam, often they use very low frame rates of 12
frames or less per second. The trouble here is it doesn't matter what
the bitrate is, that just sets the quality and has zero impact on
frame rate. If that's the problem the solution is to increase the
frame rate.

Need more information. Brand, model of camera, what frame rate and
bitrate your source files are, are you using Movie Maker exclusively
or something else, things like that.

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2007
KDE
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
<CLIP>Just for your information Mbps has nothing to do with speed</CLIP>
But, It has everything to do with the DVD players ability to play back
smoothly or choppy.

Lowering the bitrate will decrease the quality, but will increase
compatibility with standalone DVD players. I burn and distribute 100's of
homemade DVD's and everytime I burn higher than 4Mbs, I get complaints from
people about choppy playback.

you have to determine what tradeoff you are willing to make to get a nice
quality DVD that most players can play.


"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:647ca39kibchqn27vmfuopfc75vsudrbpj@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:36:13 -0700, MSUTech
> <MSUTech@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>>Hello All,
>>
>>I have a lot of home movies that, through IEEE 1394, I put on our home
>>laptop. PREVIOUSLY I was able to select the setting of 2.1 mbps, for the
>>speed of the movie.
>>
>>When I burn those 2.1 mbps movies to DVD, from Windows Vista, the dvds
>>look
>>great.
>>
>>NOW, in Windows Vista, I don't seem to have an option of what speed I want
>>to save these movies at, when I am transferring them from my video camera,
>>through IEEE 1394 - I think it defaults to 4 mbps.
>>
>>MY PROBLEM: If I create a dvd from these new 4 mbps videos, that dvd is
>>very
>>choppy and really hard to watch. I tried to use movie maker to drop it to
>>3
>>mbps, then create another dvd, but, the movie is still choppy.
>>
>>Can someone help me determine the best way to take my home movies, from my
>>camera, and get them to DVD, without being so choppy?
>>
>>thanks,

>
> Just for your information Mbps has nothing to do with speed, it is the
> overall QUALITY at which the video is encoded at. The higher the
> bitrate the better the quality, however don't get tricked into
> assuming you can take a low bitrate source file and make it "better"
> just by re encoding at a higher bitrate. That don't work.
>
> Speed for videos is determined by the frame rate which is how many
> frames happen per second of playback. For North America, Japan, a few
> other countries (see map) the expected frame rate for DVD's is 29.970
> frames a second which is based on NTSC specs.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC
>
> For the rest of the world it is PAL specs.
>
> As far as your question choppy playback can be caused from several
> things. The slower the bitrate the easier it is for the decoder. If
> you try to play back a high bitrate video on a under powered PC your
> computer may have trouble keeping up, thus choppy playback. How does
> the DVD play on a set top DVD player?
>
> You can also get choppy results if the source file is encoded at a low
> frame rate. For example if you download some video off the web that
> was made on a Web Cam, often they use very low frame rates of 12
> frames or less per second. The trouble here is it doesn't matter what
> the bitrate is, that just sets the quality and has zero impact on
> frame rate. If that's the problem the solution is to increase the
> frame rate.
>
> Need more information. Brand, model of camera, what frame rate and
> bitrate your source files are, are you using Movie Maker exclusively
> or something else, things like that.
>



Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2007
Adam Albright
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:54:07 -0600, "KDE"
<knott_me@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:

><CLIP>Just for your information Mbps has nothing to do with speed</CLIP>
>But, It has everything to do with the DVD players ability to play back
>smoothly or choppy.
>
>Lowering the bitrate will decrease the quality, but will increase
>compatibility with standalone DVD players. I burn and distribute 100's of
>homemade DVD's and everytime I burn higher than 4Mbs, I get complaints from
>people about choppy playback.
>
>you have to determine what tradeoff you are willing to make to get a nice
>quality DVD that most players can play.
>

The suggested floor for DVDs is 6000 Mbps for a constant bitrate, can
be way lower if you use a variable bitrate. If you use 4000 Mbps or
less the quality isn't close to DVD specs.

If a DVD player can't handle 6000 Mbps then there is something wrong
with the DVD player or more likely the player has trouble with the
brand of DVD media you're using or the format. You're using + or - ?
Typically the problem most amateurs make is using too a high a
bitrate, over 8000 Mbps that for sure will freak out a lot of DVD
players and cause them to play back jerky or choppy.

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2007
Leon
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
I have a similar problem!

see "Frame rate quality loss using Windows Vista Ulitmate Movie Mak" thread.

Hope we can resolve this before I spend a couple of hundred dollars just to
get the same prblem on the next software availabel!



"Adam Albright" wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:54:07 -0600, "KDE"
> <knott_me@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> ><CLIP>Just for your information Mbps has nothing to do with speed</CLIP>
> >But, It has everything to do with the DVD players ability to play back
> >smoothly or choppy.
> >
> >Lowering the bitrate will decrease the quality, but will increase
> >compatibility with standalone DVD players. I burn and distribute 100's of
> >homemade DVD's and everytime I burn higher than 4Mbs, I get complaints from
> >people about choppy playback.
> >
> >you have to determine what tradeoff you are willing to make to get a nice
> >quality DVD that most players can play.
> >

> The suggested floor for DVDs is 6000 Mbps for a constant bitrate, can
> be way lower if you use a variable bitrate. If you use 4000 Mbps or
> less the quality isn't close to DVD specs.
>
> If a DVD player can't handle 6000 Mbps then there is something wrong
> with the DVD player or more likely the player has trouble with the
> brand of DVD media you're using or the format. You're using + or - ?
> Typically the problem most amateurs make is using too a high a
> bitrate, over 8000 Mbps that for sure will freak out a lot of DVD
> players and cause them to play back jerky or choppy.
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2007
Adam Albright
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 03:22:06 -0700, Leon
<Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I have a similar problem!
>
>see "Frame rate quality loss using Windows Vista Ulitmate Movie Mak" thread.
>
>Hope we can resolve this before I spend a couple of hundred dollars just to
>get the same prblem on the next software availabel!


Editing videos on a computer and making DVDs can be a complex task and
there are many pitfalls. I've got plenty of bumps and bruises to prove
it ;-)

As I've said before I'm using Vista Business which Microsoft didn't
see fit to include DVD Maker in. So I'm in the dark how good or bad it
performs. What I can tell you is at the heart of making good videos
that play as expected when making DVDs is the encoder. MPEG-2 encoders
which is the source file type DVDs MUST be encoded to prior to doing
the final DVD burning phase aren't free. They are licensed software.
Which one Microsoft includes if you have the Home Premium or Ultimate
version that include DVD Maker I have no idea. Some MPEG-2 encoders
are simply better, some WAY BETTER than others. I doubt Microsoft
includes a really good one.

Lets look deeper. An explanation of a few terms; GOP (Group of
Pictures) and the three types of frames that make up a video,
respectively called "I", "P" and "B" frames.

As most people already know a video is nothing more than a long series
of still images (frames) played back at a fast enough rate that tricks
the human eye into seeing motion. Under NTSC specs, a compliant MPEG-2
video has a frame rate of 29.970 frames per second. That's fast enough
to get smooth motion.

A GOP starts with an "I" frame, sometimes referred to as a key frame
usually followed by a number of "P" and "B" frames. Each GOP is
analyzed separately. GOPs can be just a single "I" frame or many
frames combined.

In "I" frames Spatial Compression removes redundancies within a single
frame of video. The encoder or the compressor a more accurate term
looks at each "I" frame separately regardless of the frames preceding
or following it. The frame is divided into blocks, which are then
transformed using discrete cosine transformation and get compressed at
about a 7:1 ratio.

With "P" frames which stands for Predicted Frames, these follow
I-Frames. A "P" frame's content and/or color has changed from the
preceding I-Frame. However since "P" frames only contains data that
has changed, they can't be displayed on their own needing a preceding
"I" frame to fill in the sequence's original content.

Trying to avoid getting too technical, "B" frames are bi-directional
predicted frames that remove more redundancies by looking at changes
in frame content or color based on both previous and subsequent frames
which require "I" frames surrounding by "P" frames. So a typical one
second of MPEG-2 video would like something like this:

A GOP: I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB

Ok, why should you care? How well the MPEG-2 encoder does this dance
the better the quality of the resulting video.

Another factor is bitrate. If you encode at a constant bitrate you
don't get efficient compression and in effect only increase file bloat
with no increase in video quality.

Generally "I" frames get compressed about 7:1, while "P" and "B"
frames can often get easily compressed at 20:1, even higher without
objectionable loss of quality.

So, (finally) we answer the question. Why do videos play choppy? If
the more common reasons already offered in another reply earlier
aren't to blame, then suspect the encoder.

Here's why: If nothing much is changing frame to frame then little if
any prediction is happening, so the encoder isn't guessing what it can
safely drop as redundancies in preceding frames. However if the action
in the video starts to get fast and heavy then the bitrate better be
high enough to handle it. If it isn't then the encoder is forced to
make more predictions and the quality of "P" and "B" frames will go
way down since the encoder isn't making good decisions and may drops
needed detail, hence choppy playback can be the result because your
eyes are starting to detect noticeable changes frame to frame.

So the bottom line is better encoders do a better job of encoding and
not only can you control the dance better, but you control what
bitrate and even can use two pass encoding and other things. Again, I
don't have Microsoft's DVD Maker so I don't know if it is capable of
offering good control or changes in what bitrate you get to use or
not.

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2007
Leon
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
That all sounds OK.... but, why is the quality all 100% if I do not edit the
video and encode the complete 1hr and burn to DVD?

The problem only occurs when I use Windows Moviemaker to edit. The project
is saved as a .MSWMM file.

So I think the frame rate is lost between the Moviemaker and the DVD Maker,
and that the DVD Maker is OK, as it does encode good quality unedited videos.

Any ideas?


"Adam Albright" wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 03:22:06 -0700, Leon
> <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >I have a similar problem!
> >
> >see "Frame rate quality loss using Windows Vista Ulitmate Movie Mak" thread.
> >
> >Hope we can resolve this before I spend a couple of hundred dollars just to
> >get the same prblem on the next software availabel!

>
> Editing videos on a computer and making DVDs can be a complex task and
> there are many pitfalls. I've got plenty of bumps and bruises to prove
> it ;-)
>
> As I've said before I'm using Vista Business which Microsoft didn't
> see fit to include DVD Maker in. So I'm in the dark how good or bad it
> performs. What I can tell you is at the heart of making good videos
> that play as expected when making DVDs is the encoder. MPEG-2 encoders
> which is the source file type DVDs MUST be encoded to prior to doing
> the final DVD burning phase aren't free. They are licensed software.
> Which one Microsoft includes if you have the Home Premium or Ultimate
> version that include DVD Maker I have no idea. Some MPEG-2 encoders
> are simply better, some WAY BETTER than others. I doubt Microsoft
> includes a really good one.
>
> Lets look deeper. An explanation of a few terms; GOP (Group of
> Pictures) and the three types of frames that make up a video,
> respectively called "I", "P" and "B" frames.
>
> As most people already know a video is nothing more than a long series
> of still images (frames) played back at a fast enough rate that tricks
> the human eye into seeing motion. Under NTSC specs, a compliant MPEG-2
> video has a frame rate of 29.970 frames per second. That's fast enough
> to get smooth motion.
>
> A GOP starts with an "I" frame, sometimes referred to as a key frame
> usually followed by a number of "P" and "B" frames. Each GOP is
> analyzed separately. GOPs can be just a single "I" frame or many
> frames combined.
>
> In "I" frames Spatial Compression removes redundancies within a single
> frame of video. The encoder or the compressor a more accurate term
> looks at each "I" frame separately regardless of the frames preceding
> or following it. The frame is divided into blocks, which are then
> transformed using discrete cosine transformation and get compressed at
> about a 7:1 ratio.
>
> With "P" frames which stands for Predicted Frames, these follow
> I-Frames. A "P" frame's content and/or color has changed from the
> preceding I-Frame. However since "P" frames only contains data that
> has changed, they can't be displayed on their own needing a preceding
> "I" frame to fill in the sequence's original content.
>
> Trying to avoid getting too technical, "B" frames are bi-directional
> predicted frames that remove more redundancies by looking at changes
> in frame content or color based on both previous and subsequent frames
> which require "I" frames surrounding by "P" frames. So a typical one
> second of MPEG-2 video would like something like this:
>
> A GOP: I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB
>
> Ok, why should you care? How well the MPEG-2 encoder does this dance
> the better the quality of the resulting video.
>
> Another factor is bitrate. If you encode at a constant bitrate you
> don't get efficient compression and in effect only increase file bloat
> with no increase in video quality.
>
> Generally "I" frames get compressed about 7:1, while "P" and "B"
> frames can often get easily compressed at 20:1, even higher without
> objectionable loss of quality.
>
> So, (finally) we answer the question. Why do videos play choppy? If
> the more common reasons already offered in another reply earlier
> aren't to blame, then suspect the encoder.
>
> Here's why: If nothing much is changing frame to frame then little if
> any prediction is happening, so the encoder isn't guessing what it can
> safely drop as redundancies in preceding frames. However if the action
> in the video starts to get fast and heavy then the bitrate better be
> high enough to handle it. If it isn't then the encoder is forced to
> make more predictions and the quality of "P" and "B" frames will go
> way down since the encoder isn't making good decisions and may drops
> needed detail, hence choppy playback can be the result because your
> eyes are starting to detect noticeable changes frame to frame.
>
> So the bottom line is better encoders do a better job of encoding and
> not only can you control the dance better, but you control what
> bitrate and even can use two pass encoding and other things. Again, I
> don't have Microsoft's DVD Maker so I don't know if it is capable of
> offering good control or changes in what bitrate you get to use or
> not.
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2007
John Lee Brown
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
What antivirus software are you running. I have discovered that it can
easily interfere with video editing so I shut it off during editing, also
while the computer is doing the edit you cannot do anything else.

"Leon" <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:99A0CE20-C53E-4220-913C-AA935FC1C858@microsoft.com...
> That all sounds OK.... but, why is the quality all 100% if I do not edit
> the
> video and encode the complete 1hr and burn to DVD?
>
> The problem only occurs when I use Windows Moviemaker to edit. The project
> is saved as a .MSWMM file.
>
> So I think the frame rate is lost between the Moviemaker and the DVD
> Maker,
> and that the DVD Maker is OK, as it does encode good quality unedited
> videos.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> "Adam Albright" wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 03:22:06 -0700, Leon
>> <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I have a similar problem!
>> >
>> >see "Frame rate quality loss using Windows Vista Ulitmate Movie Mak"
>> >thread.
>> >
>> >Hope we can resolve this before I spend a couple of hundred dollars just
>> >to
>> >get the same prblem on the next software availabel!

>>
>> Editing videos on a computer and making DVDs can be a complex task and
>> there are many pitfalls. I've got plenty of bumps and bruises to prove
>> it ;-)
>>
>> As I've said before I'm using Vista Business which Microsoft didn't
>> see fit to include DVD Maker in. So I'm in the dark how good or bad it
>> performs. What I can tell you is at the heart of making good videos
>> that play as expected when making DVDs is the encoder. MPEG-2 encoders
>> which is the source file type DVDs MUST be encoded to prior to doing
>> the final DVD burning phase aren't free. They are licensed software.
>> Which one Microsoft includes if you have the Home Premium or Ultimate
>> version that include DVD Maker I have no idea. Some MPEG-2 encoders
>> are simply better, some WAY BETTER than others. I doubt Microsoft
>> includes a really good one.
>>
>> Lets look deeper. An explanation of a few terms; GOP (Group of
>> Pictures) and the three types of frames that make up a video,
>> respectively called "I", "P" and "B" frames.
>>
>> As most people already know a video is nothing more than a long series
>> of still images (frames) played back at a fast enough rate that tricks
>> the human eye into seeing motion. Under NTSC specs, a compliant MPEG-2
>> video has a frame rate of 29.970 frames per second. That's fast enough
>> to get smooth motion.
>>
>> A GOP starts with an "I" frame, sometimes referred to as a key frame
>> usually followed by a number of "P" and "B" frames. Each GOP is
>> analyzed separately. GOPs can be just a single "I" frame or many
>> frames combined.
>>
>> In "I" frames Spatial Compression removes redundancies within a single
>> frame of video. The encoder or the compressor a more accurate term
>> looks at each "I" frame separately regardless of the frames preceding
>> or following it. The frame is divided into blocks, which are then
>> transformed using discrete cosine transformation and get compressed at
>> about a 7:1 ratio.
>>
>> With "P" frames which stands for Predicted Frames, these follow
>> I-Frames. A "P" frame's content and/or color has changed from the
>> preceding I-Frame. However since "P" frames only contains data that
>> has changed, they can't be displayed on their own needing a preceding
>> "I" frame to fill in the sequence's original content.
>>
>> Trying to avoid getting too technical, "B" frames are bi-directional
>> predicted frames that remove more redundancies by looking at changes
>> in frame content or color based on both previous and subsequent frames
>> which require "I" frames surrounding by "P" frames. So a typical one
>> second of MPEG-2 video would like something like this:
>>
>> A GOP: I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB
>>
>> Ok, why should you care? How well the MPEG-2 encoder does this dance
>> the better the quality of the resulting video.
>>
>> Another factor is bitrate. If you encode at a constant bitrate you
>> don't get efficient compression and in effect only increase file bloat
>> with no increase in video quality.
>>
>> Generally "I" frames get compressed about 7:1, while "P" and "B"
>> frames can often get easily compressed at 20:1, even higher without
>> objectionable loss of quality.
>>
>> So, (finally) we answer the question. Why do videos play choppy? If
>> the more common reasons already offered in another reply earlier
>> aren't to blame, then suspect the encoder.
>>
>> Here's why: If nothing much is changing frame to frame then little if
>> any prediction is happening, so the encoder isn't guessing what it can
>> safely drop as redundancies in preceding frames. However if the action
>> in the video starts to get fast and heavy then the bitrate better be
>> high enough to handle it. If it isn't then the encoder is forced to
>> make more predictions and the quality of "P" and "B" frames will go
>> way down since the encoder isn't making good decisions and may drops
>> needed detail, hence choppy playback can be the result because your
>> eyes are starting to detect noticeable changes frame to frame.
>>
>> So the bottom line is better encoders do a better job of encoding and
>> not only can you control the dance better, but you control what
>> bitrate and even can use two pass encoding and other things. Again, I
>> don't have Microsoft's DVD Maker so I don't know if it is capable of
>> offering good control or changes in what bitrate you get to use or
>> not.
>>
>>


Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2007
Leon
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
Hi,

I use McAfee.

I do not run any other applications while the DVD is encoded. I have a Intel
Dual Core 6600 (2x2.4GHz) pc with 2GB RAM. So I think that should be enough

What I do not understand that in one instance it is working great, but not
if I edited the movie.


"John Lee Brown" wrote:

> What antivirus software are you running. I have discovered that it can
> easily interfere with video editing so I shut it off during editing, also
> while the computer is doing the edit you cannot do anything else.
>
> "Leon" <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:99A0CE20-C53E-4220-913C-AA935FC1C858@microsoft.com...
> > That all sounds OK.... but, why is the quality all 100% if I do not edit
> > the
> > video and encode the complete 1hr and burn to DVD?
> >
> > The problem only occurs when I use Windows Moviemaker to edit. The project
> > is saved as a .MSWMM file.
> >
> > So I think the frame rate is lost between the Moviemaker and the DVD
> > Maker,
> > and that the DVD Maker is OK, as it does encode good quality unedited
> > videos.
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> > "Adam Albright" wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 03:22:06 -0700, Leon
> >> <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have a similar problem!
> >> >
> >> >see "Frame rate quality loss using Windows Vista Ulitmate Movie Mak"
> >> >thread.
> >> >
> >> >Hope we can resolve this before I spend a couple of hundred dollars just
> >> >to
> >> >get the same prblem on the next software availabel!
> >>
> >> Editing videos on a computer and making DVDs can be a complex task and
> >> there are many pitfalls. I've got plenty of bumps and bruises to prove
> >> it ;-)
> >>
> >> As I've said before I'm using Vista Business which Microsoft didn't
> >> see fit to include DVD Maker in. So I'm in the dark how good or bad it
> >> performs. What I can tell you is at the heart of making good videos
> >> that play as expected when making DVDs is the encoder. MPEG-2 encoders
> >> which is the source file type DVDs MUST be encoded to prior to doing
> >> the final DVD burning phase aren't free. They are licensed software.
> >> Which one Microsoft includes if you have the Home Premium or Ultimate
> >> version that include DVD Maker I have no idea. Some MPEG-2 encoders
> >> are simply better, some WAY BETTER than others. I doubt Microsoft
> >> includes a really good one.
> >>
> >> Lets look deeper. An explanation of a few terms; GOP (Group of
> >> Pictures) and the three types of frames that make up a video,
> >> respectively called "I", "P" and "B" frames.
> >>
> >> As most people already know a video is nothing more than a long series
> >> of still images (frames) played back at a fast enough rate that tricks
> >> the human eye into seeing motion. Under NTSC specs, a compliant MPEG-2
> >> video has a frame rate of 29.970 frames per second. That's fast enough
> >> to get smooth motion.
> >>
> >> A GOP starts with an "I" frame, sometimes referred to as a key frame
> >> usually followed by a number of "P" and "B" frames. Each GOP is
> >> analyzed separately. GOPs can be just a single "I" frame or many
> >> frames combined.
> >>
> >> In "I" frames Spatial Compression removes redundancies within a single
> >> frame of video. The encoder or the compressor a more accurate term
> >> looks at each "I" frame separately regardless of the frames preceding
> >> or following it. The frame is divided into blocks, which are then
> >> transformed using discrete cosine transformation and get compressed at
> >> about a 7:1 ratio.
> >>
> >> With "P" frames which stands for Predicted Frames, these follow
> >> I-Frames. A "P" frame's content and/or color has changed from the
> >> preceding I-Frame. However since "P" frames only contains data that
> >> has changed, they can't be displayed on their own needing a preceding
> >> "I" frame to fill in the sequence's original content.
> >>
> >> Trying to avoid getting too technical, "B" frames are bi-directional
> >> predicted frames that remove more redundancies by looking at changes
> >> in frame content or color based on both previous and subsequent frames
> >> which require "I" frames surrounding by "P" frames. So a typical one
> >> second of MPEG-2 video would like something like this:
> >>
> >> A GOP: I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB
> >>
> >> Ok, why should you care? How well the MPEG-2 encoder does this dance
> >> the better the quality of the resulting video.
> >>
> >> Another factor is bitrate. If you encode at a constant bitrate you
> >> don't get efficient compression and in effect only increase file bloat
> >> with no increase in video quality.
> >>
> >> Generally "I" frames get compressed about 7:1, while "P" and "B"
> >> frames can often get easily compressed at 20:1, even higher without
> >> objectionable loss of quality.
> >>
> >> So, (finally) we answer the question. Why do videos play choppy? If
> >> the more common reasons already offered in another reply earlier
> >> aren't to blame, then suspect the encoder.
> >>
> >> Here's why: If nothing much is changing frame to frame then little if
> >> any prediction is happening, so the encoder isn't guessing what it can
> >> safely drop as redundancies in preceding frames. However if the action
> >> in the video starts to get fast and heavy then the bitrate better be
> >> high enough to handle it. If it isn't then the encoder is forced to
> >> make more predictions and the quality of "P" and "B" frames will go
> >> way down since the encoder isn't making good decisions and may drops
> >> needed detail, hence choppy playback can be the result because your
> >> eyes are starting to detect noticeable changes frame to frame.
> >>
> >> So the bottom line is better encoders do a better job of encoding and
> >> not only can you control the dance better, but you control what
> >> bitrate and even can use two pass encoding and other things. Again, I
> >> don't have Microsoft's DVD Maker so I don't know if it is capable of
> >> offering good control or changes in what bitrate you get to use or
> >> not.
> >>
> >>

>
>

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2007
John Lee Brown
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Choppy Playback of Burned DVD
When you edit you are converting the video but when you are going straight
to DVD you are not always converting the video. It is during that conversion
that choppiness and video/voice out of sync happen.
"Leon" <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4A8C8645-0674-4345-899B-CEEDAAD0557C@microsoft.com...
> Hi,
>
> I use McAfee.
>
> I do not run any other applications while the DVD is encoded. I have a
> Intel
> Dual Core 6600 (2x2.4GHz) pc with 2GB RAM. So I think that should be
> enough
>
> What I do not understand that in one instance it is working great, but not
> if I edited the movie.
>
>
> "John Lee Brown" wrote:
>
>> What antivirus software are you running. I have discovered that it can
>> easily interfere with video editing so I shut it off during editing, also
>> while the computer is doing the edit you cannot do anything else.
>>
>> "Leon" <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:99A0CE20-C53E-4220-913C-AA935FC1C858@microsoft.com...
>> > That all sounds OK.... but, why is the quality all 100% if I do not
>> > edit
>> > the
>> > video and encode the complete 1hr and burn to DVD?
>> >
>> > The problem only occurs when I use Windows Moviemaker to edit. The
>> > project
>> > is saved as a .MSWMM file.
>> >
>> > So I think the frame rate is lost between the Moviemaker and the DVD
>> > Maker,
>> > and that the DVD Maker is OK, as it does encode good quality unedited
>> > videos.
>> >
>> > Any ideas?
>> >
>> >
>> > "Adam Albright" wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 03:22:06 -0700, Leon
>> >> <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I have a similar problem!
>> >> >
>> >> >see "Frame rate quality loss using Windows Vista Ulitmate Movie Mak"
>> >> >thread.
>> >> >
>> >> >Hope we can resolve this before I spend a couple of hundred dollars
>> >> >just
>> >> >to
>> >> >get the same prblem on the next software availabel!
>> >>
>> >> Editing videos on a computer and making DVDs can be a complex task and
>> >> there are many pitfalls. I've got plenty of bumps and bruises to prove
>> >> it ;-)
>> >>
>> >> As I've said before I'm using Vista Business which Microsoft didn't
>> >> see fit to include DVD Maker in. So I'm in the dark how good or bad it
>> >> performs. What I can tell you is at the heart of making good videos
>> >> that play as expected when making DVDs is the encoder. MPEG-2 encoders
>> >> which is the source file type DVDs MUST be encoded to prior to doing
>> >> the final DVD burning phase aren't free. They are licensed software.
>> >> Which one Microsoft includes if you have the Home Premium or Ultimate
>> >> version that include DVD Maker I have no idea. Some MPEG-2 encoders
>> >> are simply better, some WAY BETTER than others. I doubt Microsoft
>> >> includes a really good one.
>> >>
>> >> Lets look deeper. An explanation of a few terms; GOP (Group of
>> >> Pictures) and the three types of frames that make up a video,
>> >> respectively called "I", "P" and "B" frames.
>> >>
>> >> As most people already know a video is nothing more than a long series
>> >> of still images (frames) played back at a fast enough rate that tricks
>> >> the human eye into seeing motion. Under NTSC specs, a compliant MPEG-2
>> >> video has a frame rate of 29.970 frames per second. That's fast enough
>> >> to get smooth motion.
>> >>
>> >> A GOP starts with an "I" frame, sometimes referred to as a key frame
>> >> usually followed by a number of "P" and "B" frames. Each GOP is
>> >> analyzed separately. GOPs can be just a single "I" frame or many
>> >> frames combined.
>> >>
>> >> In "I" frames Spatial Compression removes redundancies within a single
>> >> frame of video. The encoder or the compressor a more accurate term
>> >> looks at each "I" frame separately regardless of the frames preceding
>> >> or following it. The frame is divided into blocks, which are then
>> >> transformed using discrete cosine transformation and get compressed at
>> >> about a 7:1 ratio.
>> >>
>> >> With "P" frames which stands for Predicted Frames, these follow
>> >> I-Frames. A "P" frame's content and/or color has changed from the
>> >> preceding I-Frame. However since "P" frames only contains data that
>> >> has changed, they can't be displayed on their own needing a preceding
>> >> "I" frame to fill in the sequence's original content.
>> >>
>> >> Trying to avoid getting too technical, "B" frames are bi-directional
>> >> predicted frames that remove more redundancies by looking at changes
>> >> in frame content or color based on both previous and subsequent frames
>> >> which require "I" frames surrounding by "P" frames. So a typical one
>> >> second of MPEG-2 video would like something like this:
>> >>
>> >> A GOP: I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB I BB P BB P BB P BB P BB
>> >>
>> >> Ok, why should you care? How well the MPEG-2 encoder does this dance
>> >> the better the quality of the resulting video.
>> >>
>> >> Another factor is bitrate. If you encode at a constant bitrate you
>> >> don't get efficient compression and in effect only increase file bloat
>> >> with no increase in video quality.
>> >>
>> >> Generally "I" frames get compressed about 7:1, while "P" and "B"
>> >> frames can often get easily compressed at 20:1, even higher without
>> >> objectionable loss of quality.
>> >>
>> >> So, (finally) we answer the question. Why do videos play choppy? If
>> >> the more common reasons already offered in another reply earlier
>> >> aren't to blame, then suspect the encoder.
>> >>
>> >> Here's why: If nothing much is changing frame to frame then little if
>> >> any prediction is happening, so the encoder isn't guessing what it can
>> >> safely drop as redundancies in preceding frames. However if the action
>> >> in the video starts to get fast and heavy then the bitrate better be
>> >> high enough to handle it. If it isn't then the encoder is forced to
>> >> make more predictions and the quality of "P" and "B" frames will go
>> >> way down since the encoder isn't making good decisions and may drops
>> >> needed detail, hence choppy playback can be the result because your
>> >> eyes are starting to detect noticeable changes frame to frame.
>> >>
>> >> So the bottom line is better encoders do a better job of encoding and
>> >> not only can you control the dance better, but you control what
>> >> bitrate and even can use two pass encoding and other things. Again, I
>> >> don't have Microsoft's DVD Maker so I don't know if it is capable of
>> >> offering good control or changes in what bitrate you get to use or
>> >> not.
>> >>
>> >>

>>
>>


Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Burned DVD wont playback correctly =?Utf-8?B?UGhpbCBI?= microsoft.public.windows.vista.general 9 06-28-2008 22:58
Burned DVD won't play in a DVD player dawgskitten microsoft.public.windows.vista.music pictures video 4 07-10-2007 03:35
MiniDV to DVD: Choppy video playback? ShocWave microsoft.public.windows.vista.music pictures video 3 05-28-2007 01:05
DVD Maker DVD Scenes half green when burned =?Utf-8?B?SmVmZg==?= microsoft.public.windows.vista.general 4 03-10-2007 07:17
Reading burned DVD-R Discs in DVD-RW dirve is futile =?Utf-8?B?ZHNlYW1hbg==?= microsoft.public.windows.vista.general 7 03-01-2007 12:23




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:45.




Driver Scanner - Free Scan Now

Vistaheads.com is part of the Heads Network. See also XPHeads.com , Win7Heads.com and Win8Heads.com.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin for phpBBStyles.com.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120