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DVD Maker Problem

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2007
Tom Lake
 

Posts: n/a
DVD Maker Problem
I'm running Vista Ultimate on a Core 2 Duo E6800 with 4GB dual-channel RAM
and three 500 GB SATA hard drives (this isn't a bare minimum system). I'm
trying to burn a movie from DVD Maker, and it's been sitting there for hours
staying at 0%. How long should it take to convert and burn a 1 hour MPEG
video to DVD?

Tom Lake

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2007
Adam Albright
 

Posts: n/a
Re: DVD Maker Problem
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:13:16 -0400, "Tom Lake" <tlake@twcny.rr.com>
wrote:

>I'm running Vista Ultimate on a Core 2 Duo E6800 with 4GB dual-channel RAM
>and three 500 GB SATA hard drives (this isn't a bare minimum system). I'm
>trying to burn a movie from DVD Maker, and it's been sitting there for hours
>staying at 0%. How long should it take to convert and burn a 1 hour MPEG
>video to DVD?
>
>Tom Lake


Since I'm in the dark because the business version doesn't include DVD
Maker what exactly if anything are you seeing on screen as a indicator
of progress? Nothing but a progress bar that's stuck at 0%? If so,
sure sounds like the application is hung up if it hasn't changed for
hours.

I can give you some basic insights since I do video work
professionally. No, I don't use Movie Maker and most people shouldn't
either. I'm guessing DVD Maker is just as bad.

While it sounds simple, the question how long should it take to make a
DVD is actually complex since many variables are involved.

For starters, a up to specs DVD needs MPEG-2 for source files. If you
are dropping AVI, DivX, something else on the timeline then your
source files need to be converted. This process is called transcoding.
How long it takes depends on several variables. Some are listed below:

1. differences in file types from that of the project
2. difference between source's frame size and destination frame size
3. difference in source's frame rate
4. what filters, effects, transitions, corrections are applied
5. changes or additions in sound track
6. selected bitrate
7. the power of the encoder that has to compress the file

All of the above is just the first phase. After that the file or files
if you are placing more than one video on the DVD need to be converted
to image files that a DVD player understands. You can't just play a
raw MPEG-2 file in a DVD player.

If you are doing more advanced things like adding a menu system,
chapters, other bells and whistles more time is involved.

I can only give an example based on my experience. Not trying to be
coy, the first phase takes as long as it takes. Even on a fast system
transcoding a one hour project can take as little as 45 minutes or
literally overnight or in extreme cases 30 hours or more and that is
using professional grade software like Sony's Vegas. Average is a
ratio of between 4-1 to 8-1 depending on how many of the things I
ticked off are happening.

Second phase should go pretty fast. To covert a rendered (what
Microsoft calls published) file estimate anywhere between twenty
minutes to maybe an hour. The last phase, DVD Authoring again can get
involved and be rather time consuming, but that's done prior to the
imaging step and is really creative, more than anything else.

If you see nothing but 0% and don't get any feedback like what frame
it's at or actually see the video getting rendered (of course Vegas
does both) you're kind of in the dark.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2007
Tom Lake
 

Posts: n/a
Re: DVD Maker Problem
> Since I'm in the dark because the business version doesn't include DVD
> Maker what exactly if anything are you seeing on screen as a indicator
> of progress? Nothing but a progress bar that's stuck at 0%? If so,
> sure sounds like the application is hung up if it hasn't changed for
> hours.
>
> I can give you some basic insights since I do video work
> professionally. No, I don't use Movie Maker and most people shouldn't
> either. I'm guessing DVD Maker is just as bad.


Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, I get a small window with a progress bar
that also includes a numeric percent indicator. The progress bar shows no
fill-in and the percentage stays at 0%. When I click on the Cancel button,
however, a pop-up appears that warns me that the conversion hasn't completed
and allows me to resume. That indicates to me that the app hasn't totally
hung.
Since you have said it could take 30 hours or more in extreme cases, I'll
let
it run for a day or so to see if I get any indication at all. I'll let you
know
what I find.

Thanks again,

Tom Lake


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2007
Leon
 

Posts: n/a
Re: DVD Maker Problem
I also have a due core 6600 with 2GB Ram, and a 1 hour DVD can take upto 3
hours to burn to a DVD. If I publish the edited video from Windows Movie
Maker to my PC in HD 7Mps, this takes 3 hours. To then burn the DVD takes
another 3 hours.

If I burn an unedited video directly onto DVD with DVD Maker it takes 1
hour, and that is also the best quality on playback. Strange that the quick
way is the best quality

If I edit the video and then burn the DVD it takes much longer and I lose
frame rate quality and the video seems choppy.

"Tom Lake" wrote:

> > Since I'm in the dark because the business version doesn't include DVD
> > Maker what exactly if anything are you seeing on screen as a indicator
> > of progress? Nothing but a progress bar that's stuck at 0%? If so,
> > sure sounds like the application is hung up if it hasn't changed for
> > hours.
> >
> > I can give you some basic insights since I do video work
> > professionally. No, I don't use Movie Maker and most people shouldn't
> > either. I'm guessing DVD Maker is just as bad.

>
> Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, I get a small window with a progress bar
> that also includes a numeric percent indicator. The progress bar shows no
> fill-in and the percentage stays at 0%. When I click on the Cancel button,
> however, a pop-up appears that warns me that the conversion hasn't completed
> and allows me to resume. That indicates to me that the app hasn't totally
> hung.
> Since you have said it could take 30 hours or more in extreme cases, I'll
> let
> it run for a day or so to see if I get any indication at all. I'll let you
> know
> what I find.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Tom Lake
>
>
>

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2007
Adam Albright
 

Posts: n/a
Re: DVD Maker Problem
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 03:18:01 -0700, Leon
<Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>I also have a due core 6600 with 2GB Ram, and a 1 hour DVD can take upto 3
>hours to burn to a DVD. If I publish the edited video from Windows Movie
>Maker to my PC in HD 7Mps, this takes 3 hours. To then burn the DVD takes
>another 3 hours.
>
>If I burn an unedited video directly onto DVD with DVD Maker it takes 1
>hour, and that is also the best quality on playback. Strange that the quick
>way is the best quality


The cause for that is probably transcoding. Transcoding is the process
where the file format is converted from one type to another. If the
source file or any intermediate step is different than what you start
with then it can introduce some additional re compression step which
often will cause quality to suffer. If you have a choice when
importing from your camera the source file should be in a high quality
DV format like DV AVI. If it starts out as MPEG then you edit, you're
recompressing a file that was already compressed.

Ideally, you should begin with DV AVI, do whatever editing, feature
enhancement you want, then render (publish) to a MPEG-2, then that
finally is used to make the files you see in the Video TS (video Title
Set) folders, which are VOB files which stands for Video Object Base.
More specifics on how a DVD is structured here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/vob?cat=technology

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2007
John Lee Brown
 

Posts: n/a
Re: DVD Maker Problem
Windows Move Maker use .wmv format instead of mpeg 2.
"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:3sm3b3pq1ltih1evj8m21e74o7vsv3i1jd@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 03:18:01 -0700, Leon
> <Leon@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>>I also have a due core 6600 with 2GB Ram, and a 1 hour DVD can take upto 3
>>hours to burn to a DVD. If I publish the edited video from Windows Movie
>>Maker to my PC in HD 7Mps, this takes 3 hours. To then burn the DVD takes
>>another 3 hours.
>>
>>If I burn an unedited video directly onto DVD with DVD Maker it takes 1
>>hour, and that is also the best quality on playback. Strange that the
>>quick
>>way is the best quality

>
> The cause for that is probably transcoding. Transcoding is the process
> where the file format is converted from one type to another. If the
> source file or any intermediate step is different than what you start
> with then it can introduce some additional re compression step which
> often will cause quality to suffer. If you have a choice when
> importing from your camera the source file should be in a high quality
> DV format like DV AVI. If it starts out as MPEG then you edit, you're
> recompressing a file that was already compressed.
>
> Ideally, you should begin with DV AVI, do whatever editing, feature
> enhancement you want, then render (publish) to a MPEG-2, then that
> finally is used to make the files you see in the Video TS (video Title
> Set) folders, which are VOB files which stands for Video Object Base.
> More specifics on how a DVD is structured here:
>
> http://www.answers.com/topic/vob?cat=technology
>


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2007
Adam Albright
 

Posts: n/a
Re: DVD Maker Problem
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:50:05 -0400, "John Lee Brown"
<johnlbrown53@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>Windows Move Maker use .wmv format instead of mpeg 2.


You can't make a compliant DVD from WMV. The DVD specs call for a
MPEG-2 file. THAT is part of reason Movie Maker in my opinion is a
toy.

http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/DVD/Book_B/Video.html

There is nothing wrong with the WMV file format. In fact I use it all
the time, but for the RIGHT purpose like for video streaming or
exclusive playback off a computer. It wasn't designed for DVD
creation. In fact once you create a video that will end up on a DVD
Movie Maker exports it to WMV, but DVD Maker then needs to transcode
it. That's double compression, and that is always bad and should be
avoided wherever possible.

One thing that separates professional grade video editors from toys
like Movie Maker is professional grade editors ALWAYS export to MPEG-2
if your intended target is making a DVD. Why? That is what the specs
call for! The point is you then should be able to take the finished
MPEG-2 file and drop it into any professional grade DVD Authoring
program and continue the process of making chapters, menu pages, etc..
Then the DVD Authoring program finishes the process creating VOB files
that actually end up on the DVD.

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