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Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2007
=?Utf-8?B?U3RldmU=?=
 

Posts: n/a
Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing
Ok I couldn't find this anywhere so I'm going to ask.

I installed Windows Easy Transfer on my XP machine and transferred files to
my new Vista box (just files, not settings). My licensed music that I
downloaded from Zune and Wal-Mart do not play on my Vista box; get the
infamous License error. Does Windows Easy Transfer copy over the licenses,
and if so, what do I need to select to have this done?

-Steve

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007
John Shaw [MSFT]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing
No, Windows Easy Transfer does not copy licenses (also known as media usage
rights) for the songs that you download from online stores, such as Zune
Marketplace or Wal-Mart. You have to download new media usage rights for the
new PC.

The steps required to download media usage rights vary by online store and
the software program you used to download the songs. In some cases, you can
log on to the online store from within the software program and then try to
play the file on the new PC and the media usage rights will be downloaded
automatically. In other cases, you need to take some other action (such as
going to the store's website and authorizing the new PC or contacting the
store's customer support department).

Note that you should be using Zune Software to download new media usage
rights for any content that you downloaded from Zune Marketplace. You should
use Windows Media Player to download new media usage rights for content that
you purchased from any of the "PlaysForSure" online stores (such as URGE,
Napster, Wal*Mart, etc.).

For more information about downloading media usage rights in Windows Media
Player, see
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...11033.mspx#END.

--
John Shaw
Windows User Assistance team
Microsoft Corporation

"Steve" <Steve@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1A5EA082-B44D-4ED1-A3D8-5FCAC5C775BD@microsoft.com...
> Ok I couldn't find this anywhere so I'm going to ask.
>
> I installed Windows Easy Transfer on my XP machine and transferred files
> to
> my new Vista box (just files, not settings). My licensed music that I
> downloaded from Zune and Wal-Mart do not play on my Vista box; get the
> infamous License error. Does Windows Easy Transfer copy over the
> licenses,
> and if so, what do I need to select to have this done?
>
> -Steve
>


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
=?Utf-8?B?RWNob0xvY2F0aW9u?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing
I have never been so frustrated and angry in my life. The Windows Media team
really screwed up!

Lets say I buy 1000 songs on my computer today, and tomorrow I decide to
replace my computer. According to Microsoft's DRM rules it sounds like I can
only do this twice. I understand I shouldn't have it on several computers at
the same time, but I'm not trying to. Computers age, and we want the ability
to replace them. Microsoft DRM doesn't make allowances for that. That's so
stupid. So every 10 years or so I have to repurchase 1000s of songs that I
already own or keep a 10-year-old computer around as a glorified jukebox?

I just got a new Vista machine and none of the DRM content (purchased from
Walmart) from my old PC works on it. I have no way to unregister these files
from my old machine and register them with my new one. Windows Media Player
11 has no license backup option, and Walmart says I have to contact them to
do anything (implying that many time's there's nothing they can do).

This is the least user-friendly experience I have ever had. I am an expert
level user, and even so, it would take me days to figure this out and
transfer them. I feel like I've been ripped off!
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
zachd [MSFT]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing

"EchoLocation" <EchoLocation@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:662E5918-409E-4D5F-9F32-0893AD3802CD@microsoft.com...
>I have never been so frustrated and angry in my life.


There's a lot of confusion in this area. The thing to bear in mind is that
everything is made by people, not mindless automatons. So it's probably
either saner than you think or it makes more sense in some fashion than you
think.

> Lets say I buy 1000 songs on my computer today, and tomorrow I decide to
> replace my computer. According to Microsoft's DRM rules it sounds like I
> can
> only do this twice.


No, that would be an incorrect interpretation. Generally your store is
going to define your rule set.

> I understand I shouldn't have it on several computers at
> the same time, but I'm not trying to. Computers age, and we want the
> ability
> to replace them. Microsoft DRM doesn't make allowances for that.


Actually, it does, happily enough. =)

> I just got a new Vista machine and none of the DRM content (purchased from
> Walmart) from my old PC works on it. I have no way to unregister these
> files
> from my old machine and register them with my new one. Windows Media
> Player
> 11 has no license backup option, and Walmart says I have to contact them
> to
> do anything (implying that many time's there's nothing they can do).


I'm not certain if the Vista migration agents support DRM license transfer,
but any "good" store should allow you to restore your licenses (reissueing
them if necessary) onto the new machine. I know Urge and Zune do this, I
don't know about Walmart.

If Walmart does *not* do this, that seems like something you should either
ask them to change their policy on or take your business to a different
vendor. Since most providers are tending to support subscription models, it
would in theory be easy to replicate your purchased music store via
transferring your business to a new store that supports both license
reissuance and subscription.

-Zach
--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
=?Utf-8?B?RWNob0xvY2F0aW9u?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing
I understand you are trying to suggest that it is the vendor who sets the
policy. But remember, none of the users look at this as a vendor thing. We
look at it as a Microsoft thing. At the end of the day it's Microsoft vs.
Apple. If Apple's approach is easier to use (for whatever reasons), your
users are going to buy Ipods. If you're serious about competing in this
sector, you NEED to make this whole thing easier to use. Work with the
vendors and change your technology so it's easier for the vendors to use.

Microsoft DRM supports reissuance, but that is not the same thing as
unissuing from your old computer. If you reissue your licenses for a new PC,
the old PC can still play them. To get around that, most stores enforce a
limit on the number of computers you can reissue licenses to. I've seen this
documented in Windows Media Player's help. Walmart's limit is 2 computers.
In Media Player 10 it was at least possible to back up your licenses and
restore to a new PC. This did at least make the transfer process easier
(even though the 2 computer limit still applied). Within Media Player 11,
there is no utility that I know of for doing this.

My understanding is that all stores enforce at least some limit to the
number of times you can transfer songs to a new PC. And any limit is too
small if you ask me. I should be able to replace my computer with a new one
every day if i want to so long as I only have my songs on one computer at a
time. This is definitely a problem with the technology, not the vendors. If
the technology supported doing things properly, maybe the vendors wouldn't
have to have limits at all.

Apple doesn't do things this way. You can actually unregister your songs
from one computer (so that computer can no longer play them) and reregister
them on a new computer... all in one shot. I think that is a much smarter
(and easier to use) approach. Why hasn't Microsoft adopted a similar one?

By the way, when I try to play content licensed on my old computer from my
new one, I get a message at the bottom of Windows Media Player 11 that says
"Downloading media usage rights..." Then I get a pop-up that says "Media
Usage Rights Acquisition". Inside the popup it says "The website cannot
display the page". At that point there's nothing I can do. It looks like
it's trying to contact "musiclicenses.liquiddigitalmedia.com". That doesn't
seem very easy to use to me. I'm stuck going back to Walmart directly to
deal with this. What if I owned 10,000 songs from 3 different stores?

To me, the only easy-to-use approach is one where you copy your music to the
new PC, and the first time you try to play a song, it should automatically
take you to a website that allows you to transfer ALL of your song licenses
to a new computer in one shot. It should be super easy, otherwise DRM ijust
gets in the way. DRM needs to reward people like me who are trying to
purchase our music and make it very easy for us to do so.

There are TONS of messages on discussion groups all over the Internet on
this. Do some searches on Windows Media Player 11, and you'll see what I
mean. I'm not the only one having this problem.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
zachd [MSFT]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing

"EchoLocation" <EchoLocation@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:09134F10-9007-42BB-837C-B90E4161F7D4@microsoft.com...
> If you're serious about competing in this
> sector, you NEED to make this whole thing easier to use. Work with the
> vendors and change your technology so it's easier for the vendors to use.


Look at Urge and Zune. Vote with your wallet for vendors who support what
you want.

But I think the Urge and Zune models pretty much address almost everything
you're asking about.

> My understanding is that all stores enforce at least some limit to the
> number of times you can transfer songs to a new PC. And any limit is too
> small if you ask me. I should be able to replace my computer with a new
> one
> every day if i want to so long as I only have my songs on one computer at
> a
> time.


The likelihood that you would be doing this is small. Designing the market
around the 0.0001% case isn't effective. But most vendors can work with you
pretty effectively in case of errors/strangeness such as you are describing.

"One computer at a time" is kind of sad for home networks. My boss just
came up to today talking about how excited his (7 year old) son was about
WMP11 and had to install it to every machine in the house. So if you get an
Urge subscription but can only play the latest ****Bop on Lappy but not on
the upstairs desktop, it sucks

This is a complex field and tons of great minds are working on it.

> To me, the only easy-to-use approach is one where you copy your music to
> the
> new PC, and the first time you try to play a song, it should automatically
> take you to a website that allows you to transfer ALL of your song
> licenses
> to a new computer in one shot.


This should work fairly effectively with vendors who support this path.

> There are TONS of messages on discussion groups all over the Internet on
> this. Do some searches on Windows Media Player 11, and you'll see what I
> mean. I'm not the only one having this problem.


There's lots of information and misinformation, and generally random
searches in this arena are fairly to extremely useless, sadly.

It's a fascinating field that must get better. Urge and Zune should offer
an extremely better experience than the old fashions in this arena. If your
vendor doesn't support what you want, move to one that will.

Since this is more about DRM design than about anything technical, I'll have
to bow out of this discussion now. Like I said, if your store doesn't
support your usage model, Urge should. There was a lot of freedom given in
the MS DRM model, and some vendors may not have supported what you would
consider "enough". Vote with your feet and wallet. Since there's
competition in this space, sticking with a sad insufficient provider does no
one any good. =)

-Zach
--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2007
=?Utf-8?B?RWNob0xvY2F0aW9u?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing
Are you refering to the subscription models? Yes I suppose the subscription
models do. I looked at Urge and they make no mention what-so-ever of how
their pay-per-track service handles transfering to newly-purchased computers.
I can find no mention at all on Zune's website either. The information just
isn't easily findable. I'd call that confusing wouldn't you?

Are you basically suggesting subscription services only? Do you know of any
pay-per-song services that support a proper implementation of DRM that allows
me to transfer music to my newly purchased computer?

> The likelihood that you would be doing this is small. Designing the market
> around the 0.0001% case isn't effective. But most vendors can work with you
> pretty effectively in case of errors/strangeness such as you are describing.


I find this to be a ridiculous statement. What you are in effect stating is
that 0.0001% of users replace their old computers with new ones from time to
time. I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the Windows Vista team on
that one. Aren't they banking on us replacing our computers with new ones?
Are you saying the Vista team is hoping to sell 0.0001% of users on Vista? I
don't think so. So in effect you're designing this with the assumption
"hey... most users will never upgrade their PCs... it's cool".

I wish to make it clear that I'm actually a Microsoft fan boy (albeit a
frustrated one at the moment).
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2007
zachd [MSFT]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing


"EchoLocation" <EchoLocation@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C9B01FE2-AFE4-40CE-8BE4-B15CF5138E12@microsoft.com...
> Are you refering to the subscription models? Yes I suppose the
> subscription
> models do. I looked at Urge and they make no mention what-so-ever of how
> their pay-per-track service handles transfering to newly-purchased
> computers.
> I can find no mention at all on Zune's website either. The information
> just
> isn't easily findable. I'd call that confusing wouldn't you?


I found that in the URGE FAQ under the "How do I move my URGE account to a
different computer?" question.

I found the answer on Zune.net by searching for "Restore Licenses".
http://www.zune.net/en-us/support/ho...sagerights.htm

Looks like they cover this case...

> Are you basically suggesting subscription services only? Do you know of
> any
> pay-per-song services that support a proper implementation of DRM that
> allows
> me to transfer music to my newly purchased computer?


I really don't follow this area. Looks like both URGE and Zune do. I would
suggest you follow up with their support/staff for answers to their
questions - I'm really not involved in those areas at all. =)

>> The likelihood that you would be doing this is small. Designing the
>> market
>> around the 0.0001% case isn't effective. But most vendors can work with
>> you
>> pretty effectively in case of errors/strangeness such as you are
>> describing.


> I find this to be a ridiculous statement. What you are in effect stating
> is
> that 0.0001% of users replace their old computers with new ones from time
> to
> time.


Replacing your computer every day is the .00001% case. Replacing your
computer in five years is the ... 99% case. =)

> I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the Windows Vista team on
> that one. Aren't they banking on us replacing our computers with new
> ones?
> Are you saying the Vista team is hoping to sell 0.0001% of users on Vista?
> I
> don't think so. So in effect you're designing this with the assumption
> "hey... most users will never upgrade their PCs... it's cool".


Other way around - URGE and Zune bear in mind that you're going to do this
and as far as I'm aware allow you to Restore / Reissue licenses pretty
straight-forwardly.

I have not had any one I know mention any issues with getting their licenses
reissued as needed.


I think we both can agree that not allowing you move computers every year or
so is dumb. I don't think the people working in this area *should* be dumb
or be assumed to be dumb. If your vendor doesn't support this - and I would
contact them first before making any assumptions here -- ... well, yeah.

Again, you are asking very specific product questions. I am not involved
with those implementation decisions. I would strongly suggest you contact
the service(s) you are interested in and directly inquire to make sure you
meet your needs if you don't think they do. I'm pretty sure URGE and Zune
are sane, but asking me these kinds of questions versus asking them via
their "Contact Us" links is not nearly as educational. =)

-Zach
--
Speaking for myself only.
See http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2007
=?Utf-8?B?RWNob0xvY2F0aW9u?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Windows Easy Transfer - Music Licensing
I will ask them. I still don't think the information is readily available or
very clear. The URGE FAQ you mentioned gives me a 404 error (broken link).
It's not clear if "moving your URGE account" applies to subscription accounts
only.

As for Zune it does not mention whether or not restoring licenses would work
on another computer. It seems to be referring to a case in which you are
restoring to the machine that made the purchase. If it allows you to restore
to other computers as many times as you want, then this would be a good
option.

Again, I would just suggest that users don't care who is at fault. When
they buy music they just want it to work. I think one of the reasons that
Ipods have been so successful is that you do not have these kinds of problems
with them.
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