Dual boot XP Vista licencing

I need to have XP and Vista dual boot on 15 machines in a training
suite.

Current thinking is to get the machines (Dell) with XP installed under
their Vista Business downgrade rights. This apparently gives us the XP
and vista media and licences.

Install Vista on the second partition - job done.

Think of dual booting as a real time choice to exercise downgrade
rights :-)

If there's a glitch with that I can get Vista Upgrade licenses and
media low cost via a Charity deal (Open Licence, IIRC).

Clearly only one OS is active at once. Is the above within the EULA ?
Better options ?


Phil

According to the EULA both situations are not allowed. You need a full
license for each OS. When you exercise the downgrade right you can use
either OS but not both. When you use an upgrade license the OS you are
upgrading from has to be retired. To remain within the terms of the EULA you
would need one full XP license and one full Vista license for each computer.

--
Kerry Brown
MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/



"PhilT" <newsnet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:45f7c548-c839-4c34-9b11-5d350565ef79@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>I need to have XP and Vista dual boot on 15 machines in a training
> suite.
>
> Current thinking is to get the machines (Dell) with XP installed under
> their Vista Business downgrade rights. This apparently gives us the XP
> and vista media and licences.
>
> Install Vista on the second partition - job done.
>
> Think of dual booting as a real time choice to exercise downgrade
> rights :-)
>
> If there's a glitch with that I can get Vista Upgrade licenses and
> media low cost via a Charity deal (Open Licence, IIRC).
>
> Clearly only one OS is active at once. Is the above within the EULA ?
> Better options ?
>
>
> Phil

On May 19, 5:09 am, "Kerry Brown" <ke...@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m>
wrote:
> According to the EULA both situations are not allowed. You need a full
> license for each OS. When you exercise the downgrade right you can use
> either OS but not both.

Would I be right in assuming that the downgrade right is not a one way
process, ie if I downgrade because I want XP now can I subsequently
upgrade to Vista business without purchasing anything ?

If so does the subsequent upgrade in some way cancel the downgrade
rights from future use ie is it a one shot process ?

> When you use an upgrade license the OS you are
> upgrading from has to be retired. To remain within the terms of the EULA you
> would need one full XP license and one full Vista license for each computer.

I'll have to get my weasel to read it and Dell's interpretation of it.

Dell say "Customers may use one operating system at any single point
in time (cannot run both simultaneously unless an additional license
is purchased)." - as I don't intend to use virtualisation my dual
boot proposal complies with that interpretation.

I might also have a pile of Windows 2000 licenses to investigate as
potential start-off points for one of the boot options to upgrade to
XP or Vista.


Thanks,

Phil

a bit more data from the MS Partner Reseller Handbook............

"Windows Vista Enterprise is not available as a separate product. Its
right to use is granted to
customers who have the right to use Windows Vista Business with
Software Assurance.

Use in virtualized environments:
Customers who install Windows Vista Enterprise can install and use
additional copies of the
software, up to four virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware systems
on the licensed device.
They cannot use more than one copy per system. *They can install and
use a second copy of the
software* on the licensed device in place of one of the copies
permitted for use within virtual (or
otherwise emulated) hardware systems above, *for example, to
facilitate a multiboot setup*. They
can use any edition (Business, Enterprise, or Ultimate) *or an earlier
version of the software in place
of the licensed version for any of the additional copies permitted
above.* They must use either
Windows Vista Enterprise or Windows Vista Ultimate, or third-party
software, to run the hardware
virtualization software and to service the virtual (or otherwise
emulated) hardware systems
described above."

Microsoft licensing is overly complicated but in the end it all boils down
to each install needs a license. Here's the details of the downgrade option.

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...rencesheet.pdf

In the past Microsoft has interpreted having two OS' installed at the same
time as being simultaneous regardless of the fact that you may not actually
be using them at the same time. You mentioned charity earlier. This site may
be of interest.

http://www.techsoup.org/index.cfm?cg=header_tss&sg=home

--
Kerry Brown
MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/



"PhilT" <newsnet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:db3882e3-ce9d-410c-bac8-8402b89fce99@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 19, 5:09 am, "Kerry Brown" <ke...@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m>
> wrote:
>> According to the EULA both situations are not allowed. You need a full
>> license for each OS. When you exercise the downgrade right you can use
>> either OS but not both.
>
> Would I be right in assuming that the downgrade right is not a one way
> process, ie if I downgrade because I want XP now can I subsequently
> upgrade to Vista business without purchasing anything ?
>
> If so does the subsequent upgrade in some way cancel the downgrade
> rights from future use ie is it a one shot process ?
>
>> When you use an upgrade license the OS you are
>> upgrading from has to be retired. To remain within the terms of the EULA
>> you
>> would need one full XP license and one full Vista license for each
>> computer.
>
> I'll have to get my weasel to read it and Dell's interpretation of it.
>
> Dell say "Customers may use one operating system at any single point
> in time (cannot run both simultaneously unless an additional license
> is purchased)." - as I don't intend to use virtualisation my dual
> boot proposal complies with that interpretation.
>
> I might also have a pile of Windows 2000 licenses to investigate as
> potential start-off points for one of the boot options to upgrade to
> XP or Vista.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil

On May 19, 3:58 pm, "Kerry Brown" <ke...@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m>
wrote:
> Microsoft licensing is overly complicated but in the end it all boils down
> to each install needs a license. Here's the details of the downgrade option.
>
> http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...33e-4f11-8cbd-...

I've read that until my eyes fall out of their sockets. It does not
help that the Vista Business EULA does not actually contain the word
"downgrade" so it is of little help.

"For example, an end user who
downgrades to Windows XP Professional may
later return to Windows Vista Business software
provided that the end user deletes the Windows
XP Professional software from the PC."

seems to suggest switching between XP and Vista is out, but its a FAQ
not a license term.

>
> In the past Microsoft has interpreted having two OS' installed at the same
> time as being simultaneous regardless of the fact that you may not actually
> be using them at the same time. You mentioned charity earlier. This site may
> be of interest.
>
> http://www.techsoup.org/index.cfm?cg=header_tss&sg=home

we have the ability to buy either XP Pro upgrade or Vista Business
upgrade licenses via a charity donation scheme from Microsoft. I'm not
sure these help my current predicament much as they are only upgrades.
I have found a stack of Win2000 OEM licenses so maybe they'll go on
the 2nd partition along with one of the upgrades. At least that'll be
my recollection of what I do :-)

Personally if we have two legitimate licenses covering the use of two
OS then I'll take my chance in the English Courts as I can only use
one and I can easily demonstrate "on the balance of probabilities"
that I wasn't using two at the same time. I'll call it "virtualization
using GRUB, a Linux distro and two versions of Windows" perhaps.

Thanks.

Phil

There is another option to muddy the waters - removable HD trays,
sometimes called "mobile racks". If you argue that "install" means
to be in a computer, available for immediate bootup, then an OS
that is on a non-inserted HD tray is not simultaneously "installed".
Or if the OS is resident in an external eSATA enclosure and not
connected, it is not "installed" in the computer, and you could
switch OSes by switching between external eSATA hard drives.
"Mobile racks" cost about $25 for a tray/rack pair, and about
$17-$20 for extra trays. External eSATA enclosures with power
supplies and cooling fans cost about $30 over the cost of your
choice of SATA hard drive plus eSATA cable and a possible
SATA/eSATA adapter bracket.

*TimDaniels*

"PhilT" wrote:
>I need to have XP and Vista dual boot on 15 machines in a training
> suite.
>
> Current thinking is to get the machines (Dell) with XP installed under
> their Vista Business downgrade rights. This apparently gives us the XP
> and vista media and licences.
>
> Install Vista on the second partition - job done.
>
> Think of dual booting as a real time choice to exercise downgrade
> rights :-)
>
> If there's a glitch with that I can get Vista Upgrade licenses and
> media low cost via a Charity deal (Open Licence, IIRC).
>
> Clearly only one OS is active at once. Is the above within the EULA ?
> Better options ?

I agree the whole licensing issue is very vague and confusing. I was
explaining how it works based on many conversations with Microsoft licensing
spe******ts, mostly at partner events. It doesn't help that often different
Microsoft employees have slightly different interpretations. Personally I
recommend most of my customers buy OEM licenses for every install. I've
found this to be the least confusing license wise and in most cases also the
least expensive.

--
Kerry Brown
MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration
http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/



<pdthompson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:96617666-23f4-4e67-9e06-ae27784379ca@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 19, 3:58 pm, "Kerry Brown" <ke...@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m>
> wrote:
>> Microsoft licensing is overly complicated but in the end it all boils
>> down
>> to each install needs a license. Here's the details of the downgrade
>> option.
>>
>> http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...33e-4f11-8cbd-...
>
> I've read that until my eyes fall out of their sockets. It does not
> help that the Vista Business EULA does not actually contain the word
> "downgrade" so it is of little help.
>
> "For example, an end user who
> downgrades to Windows XP Professional may
> later return to Windows Vista Business software
> provided that the end user deletes the Windows
> XP Professional software from the PC."
>
> seems to suggest switching between XP and Vista is out, but its a FAQ
> not a license term.
>
>>
>> In the past Microsoft has interpreted having two OS' installed at the
>> same
>> time as being simultaneous regardless of the fact that you may not
>> actually
>> be using them at the same time. You mentioned charity earlier. This site
>> may
>> be of interest.
>>
>> http://www.techsoup.org/index.cfm?cg=header_tss&sg=home
>
> we have the ability to buy either XP Pro upgrade or Vista Business
> upgrade licenses via a charity donation scheme from Microsoft. I'm not
> sure these help my current predicament much as they are only upgrades.
> I have found a stack of Win2000 OEM licenses so maybe they'll go on
> the 2nd partition along with one of the upgrades. At least that'll be
> my recollection of what I do :-)
>
> Personally if we have two legitimate licenses covering the use of two
> OS then I'll take my chance in the English Courts as I can only use
> one and I can easily demonstrate "on the balance of probabilities"
> that I wasn't using two at the same time. I'll call it "virtualization
> using GRUB, a Linux distro and two versions of Windows" perhaps.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Phil

On May 19, 7:12 pm, "Timothy Daniels" <NoS...@SpamMeNot.com> wrote:
> There is another option to muddy the waters - removable HD trays,
> sometimes called "mobile racks".

nice idea Tim, I have used such a thing for HDD wiping

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/72253

less than $10 available is SATA or IDE


Phil.

On May 19, 7:27 pm, "Kerry Brown" <ke...@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m>
wrote:

> Microsoft employees have slightly different interpretations.

only the judge's opinion counts in the end :-)

if MS can't write a clear and defensible license agreement they're
going to lose in the infinitely unlikely event they take an end user
to court over a breach of EULA.

> Personally I
> recommend most of my customers buy OEM licenses for every install. I've
> found this to be the least confusing license wise and in most cases also the
> least expensive.

I think you open a new can of worms there if your clients are end
users rather than system builders they aren't entitled to use OEM
licences !

So let's not go there.

Thanks for the input.

Phil