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English is not listed as a European language, why not?

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2008
Bass
 

Posts: n/a
English is not listed as a European language, why not?
There are also various spelling mistakes (e.g. "center" for centre, "color"
for colour) in the user interfaces. This appears to be a fault also in MS
Office, which claims to take its UI language from the Windows locale but in
the case of English this doesn't work. The interface language appears to be
American.

Using Windows Vista Home Premium
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-16-2008
Donald L McDaniel
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:29:01 -0700, Bass
<Bass@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>There are also various spelling mistakes (e.g. "center" for centre, "color"
>for colour) in the user interfaces.


These are NOT "spelling mistakes", but REGIONAL varieties of English
spellings.

>This appears to be a fault also in MS
>Office, which claims to take its UI language from the Windows locale but in
>the case of English this doesn't work. The interface language appears to be
>American.


Actually, it would be "American English", since we both speak the same
language, which is "English".

Anyway, This is because you have apparently installed an "English, US"
version of Vista Home Premium.

The "Locale" is installed when the OS is installed. If you purchased
a US edition of VHP, the locale will always be "English, U.S.", NOT
"English, UK", and vice versa.

>
>Using Windows Vista Home Premium


Just a dumb question:

Where did you purchase your copy of Vista? In the UK or Canada? If
so, you purchased the WRONG edition. You NEEDED an UK Edition of Home
Premium, if you wanted to stay with Home Premium and have an UK UI.

If you are willing to upgrade to Vista Ultimate, you will be able to
freely download any of the European GUIs (including the UK GUI)

They aren't included with any versions of Vista except Ultimate or
Enterprise. Even then, one must download them via Windows Update.
They will be found under "Windows Ultimate Extras". This section will
NOT appear in Vista Home Premium.

If you don't want to Update to Vista Ultimate, you will have to
purchase a UK copy of Vista Home Premium.

It would probably be just as cheap to upgrade to Ultimate as it would
be to purchase a UK edition.

Additionally, if you did this, you would have a minimum of 35
European/Far Eastern language packs available to you at no extra cost.

These language packs will change the UI language itself, not just the
keyboard input method.


--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2008
Bass
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
The Vista was pre-installed, I will get on to Sony who may be pre-installing
the wrong version.

The locale and all available regional options are set to English (Ireland)
in any case.

Back to the original question, when I click on Europe for multilanguage
packs in Office I get a good variety of languages offered, but not English.
This is bizarre. I am very happy to see Welsh and Irish catered for, but with
all due respect surely the 60M native English speakers (6 countries have
English as one of their official languages) deserve a little more
consideration. Does this mean there is no English UI offered for Office?

"Donald L McDaniel" wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:29:01 -0700, Bass
> <Bass@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> >There are also various spelling mistakes (e.g. "center" for centre, "color"
> >for colour) in the user interfaces.

>
> These are NOT "spelling mistakes", but REGIONAL varieties of English
> spellings.
>


In this "region" of the world they are incorrect spellings, pure and simple.
I for one get a little tired of every new computer arriving with printer
settings that block the printer or result in strange and useless paginations
(we use ISO standards), dates that are the wrong way round for us,
automatically set up news feeds telling me about daily life in Smalltown USA
and UIs "localised" to a locale that is 5000 km away. I would not object to
any of this if I lived in the US, or if I had ordered from a US supplier
directly but I don't. What you are saying is that this is a problem of the
equipment supplier, which may be true - but its Microsoft's UI I see, and
Microsoft could for example encourage or insist that their suppliers use the
appropriate versions for the region.

> >This appears to be a fault also in MS
> >Office, which claims to take its UI language from the Windows locale but in
> >the case of English this doesn't work. The interface language appears to be
> >American.

>
> Actually, it would be "American English", since we both speak the same
> language, which is "English".
>
> Anyway, This is because you have apparently installed an "English, US"
> version of Vista Home Premium.
>
> The "Locale" is installed when the OS is installed. If you purchased
> a US edition of VHP, the locale will always be "English, U.S.", NOT
> "English, UK", and vice versa.
>
> >
> >Using Windows Vista Home Premium

>
> Just a dumb question:
>
> Where did you purchase your copy of Vista? In the UK or Canada? If
> so, you purchased the WRONG edition. You NEEDED an UK Edition of Home
> Premium, if you wanted to stay with Home Premium and have an UK UI.
>
> If you are willing to upgrade to Vista Ultimate, you will be able to
> freely download any of the European GUIs (including the UK GUI)
>
> They aren't included with any versions of Vista except Ultimate or
> Enterprise. Even then, one must download them via Windows Update.
> They will be found under "Windows Ultimate Extras". This section will
> NOT appear in Vista Home Premium.
>
> If you don't want to Update to Vista Ultimate, you will have to
> purchase a UK copy of Vista Home Premium.
>
> It would probably be just as cheap to upgrade to Ultimate as it would
> be to purchase a UK edition.
>
> Additionally, if you did this, you would have a minimum of 35
> European/Far Eastern language packs available to you at no extra cost.
>
> These language packs will change the UI language itself, not just the
> keyboard input method.
>
>
> --
> Donald L McDaniel
>
> How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
> something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
> keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
> 30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
> bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
> "cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
> decimal point.
>

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2008
Donald L McDaniel
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:08:00 -0700, Bass
<Bass@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>The Vista was pre-installed, I will get on to Sony who may be pre-installing
>the wrong version.


Good choice. I encourage you to do that FIRST.

>The locale and all available regional options are set to English (Ireland)
>in any case.


But language versions are NOT "locales". They are LANGUAGE packs,
which change the UI LANGUAGE to the installed version. These MUST be
downloaded from Microsoft, or you must order a language version
Installation media for the COUNTRY you are in.

LOCALE basically means "the GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION the OS is installed
in" (i.e., the "country of installation"), NOT the LANGUAGE the OS
is installed with.

>
>Back to the original question, when I click on Europe for multilanguage
>packs in Office I get a good variety of languages offered, but not English.
>This is bizarre. I am very happy to see Welsh and Irish catered for, but with
>all due respect surely the 60M native English speakers (6 countries have
>English as one of their official languages) deserve a little more
>consideration. Does this mean there is no English UI offered for Office?


Actually, there are MANY MORE than "60 millions of native English
speakers". Probably, 98% of US Citizens are "native English
speakers". Which 300 Millions of US Citizens are "native English
speakers." We outnumber you British English-speakers in Ireland and
Great Britain 5 to 1.

Maybe you should move to the Gaeltecht region, where you can learn
your native language, Irish Gaelic.

BTW, your last sentence makes no sense, since I am a "native English
speaker", and I've been using Office for quite some time, with English
as the UI language.

>
>"Donald L McDaniel" wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:29:01 -0700, Bass
>> <Bass@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> >There are also various spelling mistakes (e.g. "center" for centre, "color"
>> >for colour) in the user interfaces.

>>
>> These are NOT "spelling mistakes", but REGIONAL varieties of English
>> spellings.
>>

>
>In this "region" of the world they are incorrect spellings, pure and simple.


Irrelevant. They ARE correct for the American variety of our common
English language. As a general rule, we do not write "center" as
"centre", "color" as "colour". This is because we are not closely
associated with French speakers ("re" and "our" are both French
suffixes). If you can't accept this, I really feel sorry for you
because of your insular attitude.

>I for one get a little tired of every new computer


Such localizations are easy to accomplish from within any version of
Windows, as far as I know. All you have to do is install the correct
language pack.

>arriving with printer
>settings that block the printer or result in strange and useless paginations
>(we use ISO standards), dates that are the wrong way round for us,
>automatically set up news feeds telling me about daily life in Smalltown USA
>and UIs "localised" to a locale that is 5000 km away. I would not object to
>any of this if I lived in the US, or if I had ordered from a US supplier
>directly but I don't.


This is NOT Microsoft's fault. It is the fault of a user somewhere
along the line, or the fault of the OEM which sold the machines to
you.

>What you are saying is that this is a problem of the
>equipment supplier,


Actually, what I am saying is that YOU probably failed to order your
machines with UK versions of the UI, rather than "English (Ireland)."
You actually want "English (U.K.)"

>which may be true - but its Microsoft's UI I see, and
>Microsoft could for example encourage or insist that their suppliers use the
>appropriate versions for the region.


As far as I know, Microsoft does do this (encourage that their
distributors use the appropriate versions for the region.)

How do you propose that Microsoft should accomplish "insisting" that
their OEMs use the appropriate versions for the region? They aren't a
governmental body, after all, and cannot make such demands. Blaming
Microsoft is kind of unhelpful. Better you should talk to your local
M.P. instead.


However, OEMs will almost always put the language version which YOU
order on their machines at the factory.

If they failed to do this, either you failed to order the correct
language version, or they hornswaggled you famously.
("hornswaggled" is one of our Americanisms, and means "rooked you", or
"flim-flammed you", or "cheated you through deception"), or they
simply made a mistake, in which case you should talk to them about the
version of Windows they installed.

>> >This appears to be a fault also in MS
>> >Office, which claims to take its UI language from the Windows locale but in
>> >the case of English this doesn't work. The interface language appears to be
>> >American.


If your Windows UI language version is "Engish (United States), Office
will use "English, (United States)" as its UI Language.

If your Windows UI language version is "English (Ireland)" Office will
use "English (Ireland)" as its UI language.

If your Windows UI language version is "English (U.K), Office will use
"English (U.K.) as its UI language.

Got the picture yet?

This is because Office takes its UI language from the INSTALLED
Windows Locale, not the EXPECTED Windows Locale.

After all, even Office (good as it is) cannot read the minds of its
users to determine the version of UI to use.

Apparently you have a US version of English as the Windows Locale.

Which means:

(Choose one below
1) You have an "English (United States)" language pack installed.
or
2) You have a version of Windows produced for the United States, which
installs the "English (U.S.)" UI language by default.
or
3) "English (Ireland)'s" UI language is closer to the "English (United
States)'s" UI language than it is to the "English (U.K.)'s" UI
language.
or
4) You have truly f***ed-up installations of Windows and Office.
or
5) all the above.


--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2008
Mick Murphy
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
Office comes in the language you bought it in, and nothing else!
--
Mick Murphy - Qld - Australia


"Bass" wrote:

> The Vista was pre-installed, I will get on to Sony who may be pre-installing
> the wrong version.
>
> The locale and all available regional options are set to English (Ireland)
> in any case.
>
> Back to the original question, when I click on Europe for multilanguage
> packs in Office I get a good variety of languages offered, but not English.
> This is bizarre. I am very happy to see Welsh and Irish catered for, but with
> all due respect surely the 60M native English speakers (6 countries have
> English as one of their official languages) deserve a little more
> consideration. Does this mean there is no English UI offered for Office?
>
> "Donald L McDaniel" wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:29:01 -0700, Bass
> > <Bass@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> >
> > >There are also various spelling mistakes (e.g. "center" for centre, "color"
> > >for colour) in the user interfaces.

> >
> > These are NOT "spelling mistakes", but REGIONAL varieties of English
> > spellings.
> >

>
> In this "region" of the world they are incorrect spellings, pure and simple.
> I for one get a little tired of every new computer arriving with printer
> settings that block the printer or result in strange and useless paginations
> (we use ISO standards), dates that are the wrong way round for us,
> automatically set up news feeds telling me about daily life in Smalltown USA
> and UIs "localised" to a locale that is 5000 km away. I would not object to
> any of this if I lived in the US, or if I had ordered from a US supplier
> directly but I don't. What you are saying is that this is a problem of the
> equipment supplier, which may be true - but its Microsoft's UI I see, and
> Microsoft could for example encourage or insist that their suppliers use the
> appropriate versions for the region.
>
> > >This appears to be a fault also in MS
> > >Office, which claims to take its UI language from the Windows locale but in
> > >the case of English this doesn't work. The interface language appears to be
> > >American.

> >
> > Actually, it would be "American English", since we both speak the same
> > language, which is "English".
> >
> > Anyway, This is because you have apparently installed an "English, US"
> > version of Vista Home Premium.
> >
> > The "Locale" is installed when the OS is installed. If you purchased
> > a US edition of VHP, the locale will always be "English, U.S.", NOT
> > "English, UK", and vice versa.
> >
> > >
> > >Using Windows Vista Home Premium

> >
> > Just a dumb question:
> >
> > Where did you purchase your copy of Vista? In the UK or Canada? If
> > so, you purchased the WRONG edition. You NEEDED an UK Edition of Home
> > Premium, if you wanted to stay with Home Premium and have an UK UI.
> >
> > If you are willing to upgrade to Vista Ultimate, you will be able to
> > freely download any of the European GUIs (including the UK GUI)
> >
> > They aren't included with any versions of Vista except Ultimate or
> > Enterprise. Even then, one must download them via Windows Update.
> > They will be found under "Windows Ultimate Extras". This section will
> > NOT appear in Vista Home Premium.
> >
> > If you don't want to Update to Vista Ultimate, you will have to
> > purchase a UK copy of Vista Home Premium.
> >
> > It would probably be just as cheap to upgrade to Ultimate as it would
> > be to purchase a UK edition.
> >
> > Additionally, if you did this, you would have a minimum of 35
> > European/Far Eastern language packs available to you at no extra cost.
> >
> > These language packs will change the UI language itself, not just the
> > keyboard input method.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Donald L McDaniel
> >
> > How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
> > something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
> > keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
> > 30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
> > bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
> > "cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
> > decimal point.
> >

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2008
Curious
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
If using Office 2007 the following link should help you to change the
language:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../cc179091.aspx

"Mick Murphy" <MickMurphy@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:98314DB8-9246-466C-8B5A-30C74744FD01@microsoft.com...
> Office comes in the language you bought it in, and nothing else!
> --
> Mick Murphy - Qld - Australia
>
>
> "Bass" wrote:
>
>> The Vista was pre-installed, I will get on to Sony who may be
>> pre-installing
>> the wrong version.
>>
>> The locale and all available regional options are set to English
>> (Ireland)
>> in any case.
>>
>> Back to the original question, when I click on Europe for multilanguage
>> packs in Office I get a good variety of languages offered, but not
>> English.
>> This is bizarre. I am very happy to see Welsh and Irish catered for, but
>> with
>> all due respect surely the 60M native English speakers (6 countries have
>> English as one of their official languages) deserve a little more
>> consideration. Does this mean there is no English UI offered for Office?
>>
>> "Donald L McDaniel" wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:29:01 -0700, Bass
>> > <Bass@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >There are also various spelling mistakes (e.g. "center" for centre,
>> > >"color"
>> > >for colour) in the user interfaces.
>> >
>> > These are NOT "spelling mistakes", but REGIONAL varieties of English
>> > spellings.
>> >

>>
>> In this "region" of the world they are incorrect spellings, pure and
>> simple.
>> I for one get a little tired of every new computer arriving with printer
>> settings that block the printer or result in strange and useless
>> paginations
>> (we use ISO standards), dates that are the wrong way round for us,
>> automatically set up news feeds telling me about daily life in Smalltown
>> USA
>> and UIs "localised" to a locale that is 5000 km away. I would not object
>> to
>> any of this if I lived in the US, or if I had ordered from a US supplier
>> directly but I don't. What you are saying is that this is a problem of
>> the
>> equipment supplier, which may be true - but its Microsoft's UI I see, and
>> Microsoft could for example encourage or insist that their suppliers use
>> the
>> appropriate versions for the region.
>>
>> > >This appears to be a fault also in MS
>> > >Office, which claims to take its UI language from the Windows locale
>> > >but in
>> > >the case of English this doesn't work. The interface language appears
>> > >to be
>> > >American.
>> >
>> > Actually, it would be "American English", since we both speak the same
>> > language, which is "English".
>> >
>> > Anyway, This is because you have apparently installed an "English, US"
>> > version of Vista Home Premium.
>> >
>> > The "Locale" is installed when the OS is installed. If you purchased
>> > a US edition of VHP, the locale will always be "English, U.S.", NOT
>> > "English, UK", and vice versa.
>> >
>> > >
>> > >Using Windows Vista Home Premium
>> >
>> > Just a dumb question:
>> >
>> > Where did you purchase your copy of Vista? In the UK or Canada? If
>> > so, you purchased the WRONG edition. You NEEDED an UK Edition of Home
>> > Premium, if you wanted to stay with Home Premium and have an UK UI.
>> >
>> > If you are willing to upgrade to Vista Ultimate, you will be able to
>> > freely download any of the European GUIs (including the UK GUI)
>> >
>> > They aren't included with any versions of Vista except Ultimate or
>> > Enterprise. Even then, one must download them via Windows Update.
>> > They will be found under "Windows Ultimate Extras". This section will
>> > NOT appear in Vista Home Premium.
>> >
>> > If you don't want to Update to Vista Ultimate, you will have to
>> > purchase a UK copy of Vista Home Premium.
>> >
>> > It would probably be just as cheap to upgrade to Ultimate as it would
>> > be to purchase a UK edition.
>> >
>> > Additionally, if you did this, you would have a minimum of 35
>> > European/Far Eastern language packs available to you at no extra cost.
>> >
>> > These language packs will change the UI language itself, not just the
>> > keyboard input method.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Donald L McDaniel
>> >
>> > How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
>> > something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
>> > keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
>> > 30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
>> > bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
>> > "cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
>> > decimal point.
>> >


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2008
Nigel Molesworth
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:26:45 -0700, Donald L McDaniel
<orthocross@comcast.invalid> wrote:

>Actually, it would be "American English", since we both speak the same
>language, which is "English".


If only that were true

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Donald L McDaniel
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:36:46 +0000, Nigel Molesworth
<reply@thegroup.email.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:26:45 -0700, Donald L McDaniel
><orthocross@comcast.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Actually, it would be "American English", since we both speak the same
>>language, which is "English".

>
>If only that were true


Nigel, if it weren't true, you would not have been able to understand
a word I wrote.

Have a little common sense, ok?
There is nothing wrong with intelligence, but intelligence without
common sense is like a gold ring in the nose of a pig.

It may be gold, but it surely won't improve the smell, appearance, or
eating habits of a pig, will it?

In the same way, intelligence without common sense is more harmful
than good.

Donald L McDaniel

--
Donald L McDaniel

How can so many otherwise very intelligent people screw up
something so simple so badly? If you stick a computer
keyboard in front of most people, they'll suddenly drop
30 points off their IQs. Much like placing a "Pork Barrel"
bill in front of a politician: He'll forget all about
"cooperation" the minute he counts the zeroes before the
decimal point.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Nigel Molesworth
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 01:47:30 -0700, Donald L McDaniel
<orthocross@comcast.invalid> wrote:

>>>Actually, it would be "American English", since we both speak the same
>>>language, which is "English".

>>
>>If only that were true

>
>Nigel, if it weren't true, you would not have been able to understand
>a word I wrote.


Lighten up, it was a joke!

However, if I said that I walked along the pavement to the shops, wearing my
pants, a vest and suspenders. Then I can assure you that someone in the UK
would get a totally different image.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2008
Michael A. Covington
 

Posts: n/a
Re: English is not listed as a European language, why not?
"Bass" <Bass@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2EE08508-F560-4F17-B2B5-E30D8F69C15B@microsoft.com...
> The Vista was pre-installed, I will get on to Sony who may be
> pre-installing
> the wrong version.
>
> The locale and all available regional options are set to English (Ireland)
> in any case.
>
> Back to the original question, when I click on Europe for multilanguage
> packs in Office I get a good variety of languages offered, but not
> English.


Until recent decades Britain did not consider itself part of Europe.



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