Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:48:32 -0700
From: Bruce Chambers <firstname.lastname@example.org>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 184.108.40.206 (Windows/20071031)
Subject: Re: Post-install
References: <2DBD252C-4D6A-4B77-9EE2-BC9E5F05853B@microsoft.com> <#vuKuC7LIHA.5160@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>
<Hln2j.31364$9h.2685@trnddc07> <uD7P2p7LIHA.6108@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl> <b%n2j.8853$ch.6732@trnddc03>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071125-0, 11/25/2007), Outbound message
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24-117-23-132.cpe.cableone.net 220.127.116.11
nwrddc01.gnilink.net!cyclone2.gnilink.net!cyclone1 .gnilink.net!gnilink.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!msrtrans !TK2MSFTFEEDS02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTN
Xref: news.verizon.net microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup: 32909
X-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:49:07 EST (nwrddc01.gnilink.net)
"Bruce Chambers" <email@example.com> wrote in message...
> David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
> >> It's called a general, common sense security precaution.
> > That just makes me wonder where you're kickbacks are coming from. ;-)
> Unfounded accusations instead of rational arguments supported by
> documented facts?
I suppose it's beyond your ILLUSTRIOUS demeanor to SEE THE SMILEY-FACE.
Look again, knee-jerker. :-I assure you it is there and was there.
> Why do I bother?
Apparently, strictly to feed your ego and no other reason what-so-ever
unless you are selling something.
> > "Common Sense" security is good personal habits...
> ... And taking precautions against the day when something slips by
> those habits.
Nothing has slipped by mine in some 14 years on dozens of *connected*
PCs. But that doesn't matter, the issue is your rudeness and the sudden
assertion of your inherent superiority.
> > everything else
> > is a slowed-down, bogged-down, invaded PC that puts money in the
> > hands of the people make such claims as you.
> Not if one knows how to properly install and configure such products,
> and maintain a PC.
I'm sorry, Mr. Hurt Ego... but I simply asked you a question. "Why" does
the OP need anti-virus before getting on line for OS updates?
And your response appears to be, "Because he's automatically to be
considered a complete IDIOT."
And if you're saying A/V software does NOT slow boot time, you are lying.
And if you're saying it only does because the user has configured it incorrectly,
you are lying again.
> > Windows Update
> > is going to throw a virus out??
> Not intentionally, no.
What are the chances? A hundred billion to one? Actually, the chances
of acquiring ANY virus while web surfing anything but **** sites is about
1,000,000,000 to one. We all know that servers are protected and virii
come to end users through e-mails. Mal-ware is another issue.
> But all web sites are potentially capable of
> being compromised and exploited.
Oooo... run and be scared !! Buy some software & pretend you are safe !!
At about a 500,000 to one scare ratio... it's not even worthy of thought.
> Further, I wasn't aware that Windows
> Update was the sum total of the Internet.
Did anyone say that it was? (But you go ahead and make things up, I
understand your need to maintain superiority over NOTHING by inserting
false assumptions and directing the issue away from it's focus).
> When did that happen?
When the OP asked his question about obtaining updates. Otherwise, I
never would have asked mine of you. Really... perhaps you should take
a Valium or something. This is *not* a big issue. I just tossed out some
personal experiences as an end user to justify my question to you. No
need to go all Mount Vesuvius & last days of Pompeii on me....
> > Seriously... I had my own personal experiences with both the majors
> > 10 thru15 years ago, and deal with them a few times a week in service
> > PCs. I took ALL A/V out of my machines almost 10 years ago (and I
> > make this announcement a few times per month to see who tries to
> > hit me) and I've never been even slightly affected by viral activity on
> > any internet box I deal with... some of them online 24/7.
> > Corporate rules for a bunch of zombie users usually don't apply to
> > individuals who care enough about their time on the PC to add a
> > little conscious awareness to their surf & mail time in order to avoid
> > the massively increased boot, shutdown, and scanning times that can
> > completely ruin one's 'fun' with working on a really fast box.
> You've obviously never met an average home computer user, then, if you
> think they're going to take their time learning to properly secure their
I clarified my position by stating "individuals who care"... your response,
however, means that you have immediately classified the OP (and myself,
but the latter is not relevant) as a working dunce. That's presumtuous and
> There are several essential components to computer security: a
> knowledgeable and pro-active user,
That's my point. Thank you. 'Toaster' users need a firewall... and they
also have no clue as to why the toast burned while they were waiting
for their PC to boot if they have A/V, they don't know... they aren't the
people I'm talking about. However, with a couple of pointers, *anyone*
can run perfectly well without Anti-Virus protection.
> a properly configured firewall,
Excellent item to have on board (unless it comes with the major A/V
> reliable and up-to-date antivirus software,
Completely and totally irrelevant if a human being understands how virus
are received and passed. You'll note that I am not saying, and have not
said, that it is not needed for some people. I'm saying it's a complete
waste of time for anyone with a brain who cares. Personally, I don't
like to speak to strangers as if they are complete Morons until they
have proven such. But my real point is, I don't think it's needed before
going on line to take a fresh OS install to MS for updates.
> and the prompt repair (via
> patches, hotfixes, or service packs) of any known vulnerabilities.
That's a given.... ho-hum... you sould like a broken (salesman) record.
(But ya' know what... I'd advise doing that manually, *not* automatically ;-).
> The weakest link in this "equation" is, and always will be, of
> course, the computer user.
My point again.... But they aren't *all* imbeciles and therefore shouldn't
be automatically, by default attitude, treated as such IMHO.
> Ultimately, it is incumbent upon each and every
> computer user to learn how to secure his/her own computer.
My point again. And all of them aren't _automatically_ IDIOTs, are they ???
> > Just a preference.... I prefer clean and fast and personally aware.
> > Others will prefer the snails pace, 'better safe than sorry' obliviousness.
> Again, all you would need do is learn to properly select, install, and
> configure protective software, and such products wouldn't perceptively
> slow down your system. Don't blame these products for your own lack of
You know something.... I'm actually just a little bored today, and generally
I really appreciate your posts... but you not only have failed to justify why
I should have A/V before updating a new OS install - but now, in addition
to telling me that I have NO ability.... you're also telling me that Anti-Virus
products DO NOT affect the boot-up and shut down time of the computer.
And if they do, it is the end users fault.
Well.... I'm sorry PCGod, but that is a lie. Please contain yourself. You
can not add Macaffee or Symanrec (or even AVG) to a PC and not
completely alter the operating characteristics... most expecially boot time.
Please don't assert that you can.
> > On a side note... for over 5 years now, I have been removing A/V from
> > the computers of clients for whom I do PC maintenance & support. In
> > the process I show them a couple of simple steps and *guarantee*
> > that if they follow those steps... I will come for FREE for up to 2 years
> > and remove any virus they catch. I'm on my 5th year of this service
> > and NO ONE has contracted a virus...
> No one has caught a virus, or no one has been stupid enough to let you
> touch their computers again?
Ah..... we have the 'intimidation' factor, coupled with the 'personal attack'
factor, coupled with the knee-jerking, "I've been insulted" syndrome.
Get a life, Dr. PC. Attacking your ally isn't solving anything except the
possible question as to whom has a personality larger than a slug's.
> > .... and by now I'm probably personally
> > supporting some 60-plus home and business PCs
> So, have you nothing to offer besides self-admittedly very limited
> experience (only 5 years and only 60 computers?) and crudely crafted
> insults? Come back when you've something like 15 to 20 years supporting
> hundreds of computers in various enterprise and home environments.
You like reading between the lines and being a presumptuous, pompous
ass, don't you ???
Perhaps that's why you treat people as if they're all completely nuts except
Well.... just for the fellow with the *very bad* insight... I'll explain:
I've only been offering my services publically, *with a warranty,* for 5 years...
Why should I feel obligated to offer more information on me while in search
of a valid response from YOU ?!?
For whatever it's worth to you or your small-minded opinion, I have been
computer savvy since my first TRS-80 and since ordering parts with
punch-cards on a tape-based IBMs in the mid 60s. I've been on UseNet
since it was Fido-Net, and I've been working with both Macs and PCs
for *well over* 20 years
You may play your game of superiority all you like.... but I will remind you,
this is the only reason I spoke at all. People deserve SOME respect.
Now you've made *me* knee-jerk.... sorry... but do stop being such an
I don't believe that it should be considered mandatory to install A/V software
before seeking Microsoft OS updates on a fresh install and I asked you why
you seemed to think it was? I'm sorry if that was offensive enough that you
felt it necessary to attack, belittle, and lie about me repetitively.
Have a nice day,
David B. Morgan (MAMS)
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901