Microsoft Windows Vista Community Forums - Vistaheads
Recommended Download



Welcome to the Microsoft Windows Vista Community Forums - Vistaheads, YOUR Largest Resource for Windows Vista related information.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so , join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Driver Scanner

EULA Interpretation

microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation setup






Speedup My PC
Reply
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Mark
 

Posts: n/a
EULA Interpretation
Question 1:
I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
"To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that
is eligible for the upgrade."

Conundrum:
Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
perform the upgrade again.


Question 2:
Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
EULA:
Section 2. Installation and Use
"Before you use the software under a license... "
Section 4. Mandatory Activation
"Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
installation process is limited unless it is activated."

Conundrum:
Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a license")
with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this process
every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am never
identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
limitations.

Question 3:
Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
The software contians third party programs. The license terms with those
programs apply to your use of them.

Conundrum:
What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
end-user licensing rules?
Where are these agreements?
Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged" and
require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.

Fourth question:
How many licenses do I need to install Vista?
EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
"You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one
time."

Conundrum:
Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores. This
distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video card
has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more, processors
on my computer.

Last questions:
Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is unenforcable?
If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install the
software, is it a valid agreement?

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Carey Frisch [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: EULA Interpretation
Take the EULA to a local contract attorney and
he will offer his professional legal advice. This
is a peer-to-peer newsgroup and not a group of
legal jurists.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Mark" wrote:

Question 1:
I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
"To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that
is eligible for the upgrade."

Conundrum:
Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
perform the upgrade again.


Question 2:
Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
EULA:
Section 2. Installation and Use
"Before you use the software under a license... "
Section 4. Mandatory Activation
"Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
installation process is limited unless it is activated."

Conundrum:
Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a license")
with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this process
every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am never
identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
limitations.

Question 3:
Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
The software contians third party programs. The license terms with those
programs apply to your use of them.

Conundrum:
What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
end-user licensing rules?
Where are these agreements?
Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged" and
require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.

Fourth question:
How many licenses do I need to install Vista?
EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
"You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one
time."

Conundrum:
Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores. This
distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video card
has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more, processors
on my computer.

Last questions:
Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is unenforcable?
If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install the
software, is it a valid agreement?

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Mark
 

Posts: n/a
Re: EULA Interpretation
Thank you for your advice.
I thought it was a group on Installation & Setup issues
(which a EULA seems to best fit.)

Prior to discussing the matter with an attorney, it is prudent to determine
public opinion on interpretation to ensure all points of relevancy are
addressed.

My issue started with correctly re-installing Vista as an upgrade, but after
actually reading the EULA, I wasn't sure I could. Then the other points came
to light.

I will keep future rebuttals to myself so you don't deem me antagonistic.
Thanks, again.

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" wrote:

> Take the EULA to a local contract attorney and
> he will offer his professional legal advice. This
> is a peer-to-peer newsgroup and not a group of
> legal jurists.
>
> --
> Carey Frisch
> Microsoft MVP
> Windows Shell/User
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Mark" wrote:
>
> Question 1:
> I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
> EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
> "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that
> is eligible for the upgrade."
>
> Conundrum:
> Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
> upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
> perform the upgrade again.
>
>
> Question 2:
> Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
> EULA:
> Section 2. Installation and Use
> "Before you use the software under a license... "
> Section 4. Mandatory Activation
> "Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
> installation process is limited unless it is activated."
>
> Conundrum:
> Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a license")
> with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
> worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this process
> every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am never
> identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
> limitations.
>
> Question 3:
> Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
> EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
> The software contians third party programs. The license terms with those
> programs apply to your use of them.
>
> Conundrum:
> What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
> end-user licensing rules?
> Where are these agreements?
> Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged" and
> require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.
>
> Fourth question:
> How many licenses do I need to install Vista?
> EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
> "You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one
> time."
>
> Conundrum:
> Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores. This
> distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video card
> has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more, processors
> on my computer.
>
> Last questions:
> Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is unenforcable?
> If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install the
> software, is it a valid agreement?
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Bruce Chambers
 

Posts: n/a
Re: EULA Interpretation
Mark wrote:
> Question 1:
> I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
> EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
> "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that
> is eligible for the upgrade."
>
> Conundrum:
> Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
> upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
> perform the upgrade again.
>
>



Not so. The license for the older, qualifying product becomes part of
(or subsumed by) the upgrade license. It does not become revoked or
unusable. Were you to remove the Upgrade, the original qualifying
license remains valid.



> Question 2:
> Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
> EULA:
> Section 2. Installation and Use
> "Before you use the software under a license... "
> Section 4. Mandatory Activation
> "Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
> installation process is limited unless it is activated."
>
> Conundrum:
> Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a license")
> with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
> worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this process
> every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am never
> identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
> limitations.
>


If you don't mind formatting the hard drive and reinstalling
*everything* (starting with the older, qualifying OS) from scratch every
thirty days.... Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to avoid
purchasing a legitimate license.


> Question 3:
> Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
> EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
> The software contians third party programs. The license terms with those
> programs apply to your use of them.
>
> Conundrum:
> What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
> end-user licensing rules?
> Where are these agreements?


Within the Vista EULA.

> Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged" and
> require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.
>


On the contrary, a Federal Appeals court has determined that once
you've been informed that such EULAs exist, your proceeding with the
installation is tantamount to your tacit consent to be bound by them.



> Fourth question:
> How many licenses do I need to install Vista?
> EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
> "You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one
> time."
>
> Conundrum:
> Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores. This
> distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video card
> has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more, processors
> on my computer.
>


It's plain English. You can install a single license on a single
computer. The number of cores within the CPU are irrelevant.


> Last questions:
> Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is unenforcable?


Read the EULA; it makes this point clear: should any part of the EULA
be found unenforceable, the remainder remains in force.

> If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install the
> software, is it a valid agreement?
>


No.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Rick Rogers
 

Posts: n/a
Re: EULA Interpretation
Hi Mark,

"Mark" <Mark@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:78DD6960-9BC4-487D-92E7-7AD64DBD82A4@microsoft.com...
> Question 1:
> I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
> EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
> "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software
> that
> is eligible for the upgrade."
>
> Conundrum:
> Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
> upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
> perform the upgrade again.


It cannot be reinstalled for other usage while it is part of the upgrade
license. If necessary to reinstall the system cleanly, then the license
originally used for upgrading should be reused for installation.

> Question 2:
> Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
> EULA:
> Section 2. Installation and Use
> "Before you use the software under a license... "
> Section 4. Mandatory Activation
> "Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
> installation process is limited unless it is activated."
>
> Conundrum:
> Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a
> license")
> with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
> worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this
> process
> every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am never
> identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
> limitations.


Actually, it's not supposed to be used for trialware, nothing in the license
allows for this (trialware agreements state that there is a specific
free-use period, there is no such statement in a Windows EULA). The aim of
the delay is to allow for any initial hardware adjustments and for those
that don't have immediate access to the 'net or a phone for activation.
However, what you theorize is quite possible should you not mind starting
from scratch every 30 days (and don't forget about having to download and
reinstall updates!). Also, it is possible to extend the waiting period to
120 days.

> Question 3:
> Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
> EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
> The software contians third party programs. The license terms with those
> programs apply to your use of them.
>
> Conundrum:
> What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
> end-user licensing rules?


Generally with third party software, the first usage will prompt for
disclosure of the terms of use.

> Where are these agreements?


Presumably within the program, either in text format or as part of a program
file.

> Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged" and
> require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.


I'm not fully versed on this, but Vista's EULA is given prior to the
beginning of installation, and any third party programs that have one
disclose it prior to first use. From that perspective, it would seem as
though they are compliant with this condition as you see them (and often
must agree to them as a condition of use) prior to installation or use of
the software.

> Fourth question:
> How many licenses do I need to install Vista?


One license is good for one install on one system. Not like this is anything
new.

> EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
> "You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one
> time."
>
> Conundrum:
> Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores. This
> distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video
> card
> has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more,
> processors
> on my computer.


"main processor" is the key. A processor on a video card is, by definition,
a gpu that is dedicated solely to the function of that card. You cannot
employ it otherwise to aid in system functions run by the OS. The license is
to run two physical central processing units (cpu's) on the licensed device,
regardless of the number of cores per processor.

> Last questions:
> Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is
> unenforcable?


Think of it this way: Just because you don't get caught speeding doesn't
mean you aren't breaking the law.

> If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install the
> software, is it a valid agreement?


To my knowledge, any change to an agreement already in place must be agreed
to by all parties involved.

There is never a clear cut answer on licensing questions. There will always
be matters of interpretation, intent, and literal translation. Not to
mention the application of local, regional, state, and federal laws in the
many countries where Vista is offered. Plus, as technology changes, there
may well be unintended circumstances that arise that are not currently
addressed.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Mark
 

Posts: n/a
Re: EULA Interpretation
Excellent feedback!
Thank you.

1. I did not find any third party products listed in the Vista EULA. Either
way, good come back on the federal issue.

2. Not sure on the enforcablility issue: The text "enforc" or a derivative
was not found within the EULA to cover uneforcable areas of the EULA.

"Bruce Chambers" wrote:

> Mark wrote:
> > Question 1:
> > I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
> > EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
> > "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that
> > is eligible for the upgrade."
> >
> > Conundrum:
> > Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
> > upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
> > perform the upgrade again.
> >
> >

>
>
> Not so. The license for the older, qualifying product becomes part of
> (or subsumed by) the upgrade license. It does not become revoked or
> unusable. Were you to remove the Upgrade, the original qualifying
> license remains valid.
>
>
>
> > Question 2:
> > Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
> > EULA:
> > Section 2. Installation and Use
> > "Before you use the software under a license... "
> > Section 4. Mandatory Activation
> > "Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
> > installation process is limited unless it is activated."
> >
> > Conundrum:
> > Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a license")
> > with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
> > worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this process
> > every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am never
> > identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
> > limitations.
> >

>
> If you don't mind formatting the hard drive and reinstalling
> *everything* (starting with the older, qualifying OS) from scratch every
> thirty days.... Seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to avoid
> purchasing a legitimate license.
>
>
> > Question 3:
> > Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
> > EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
> > The software contians third party programs. The license terms with those
> > programs apply to your use of them.
> >
> > Conundrum:
> > What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
> > end-user licensing rules?
> > Where are these agreements?

>
> Within the Vista EULA.
>
> > Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged" and
> > require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.
> >

>
> On the contrary, a Federal Appeals court has determined that once
> you've been informed that such EULAs exist, your proceeding with the
> installation is tantamount to your tacit consent to be bound by them.
>
>
>
> > Fourth question:
> > How many licenses do I need to install Vista?
> > EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
> > "You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one
> > time."
> >
> > Conundrum:
> > Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores. This
> > distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video card
> > has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more, processors
> > on my computer.
> >

>
> It's plain English. You can install a single license on a single
> computer. The number of cores within the CPU are irrelevant.
>
>
> > Last questions:
> > Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is unenforcable?

>
> Read the EULA; it makes this point clear: should any part of the EULA
> be found unenforceable, the remainder remains in force.
>
> > If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install the
> > software, is it a valid agreement?
> >

>
> No.
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers
>
> Help us help you:
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin
>
> Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
>

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Mark
 

Posts: n/a
Re: EULA Interpretation
Excellent feedback!
Thank you!

Only one comment:
If it is not supposed to be used as Trial Ware, why can it be installed
without a Product Key?

I understand a time limit for activation, just not the prior comment

Thanks, again!


"Rick Rogers" wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> "Mark" <Mark@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:78DD6960-9BC4-487D-92E7-7AD64DBD82A4@microsoft.com...
> > Question 1:
> > I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
> > EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
> > "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software
> > that
> > is eligible for the upgrade."
> >
> > Conundrum:
> > Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
> > upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
> > perform the upgrade again.

>
> It cannot be reinstalled for other usage while it is part of the upgrade
> license. If necessary to reinstall the system cleanly, then the license
> originally used for upgrading should be reused for installation.
>
> > Question 2:
> > Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
> > EULA:
> > Section 2. Installation and Use
> > "Before you use the software under a license... "
> > Section 4. Mandatory Activation
> > "Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
> > installation process is limited unless it is activated."
> >
> > Conundrum:
> > Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a
> > license")
> > with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
> > worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this
> > process
> > every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am never
> > identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
> > limitations.

>
> Actually, it's not supposed to be used for trialware, nothing in the license
> allows for this (trialware agreements state that there is a specific
> free-use period, there is no such statement in a Windows EULA). The aim of
> the delay is to allow for any initial hardware adjustments and for those
> that don't have immediate access to the 'net or a phone for activation.
> However, what you theorize is quite possible should you not mind starting
> from scratch every 30 days (and don't forget about having to download and
> reinstall updates!). Also, it is possible to extend the waiting period to
> 120 days.
>
> > Question 3:
> > Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
> > EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
> > The software contians third party programs. The license terms with those
> > programs apply to your use of them.
> >
> > Conundrum:
> > What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
> > end-user licensing rules?

>
> Generally with third party software, the first usage will prompt for
> disclosure of the terms of use.
>
> > Where are these agreements?

>
> Presumably within the program, either in text format or as part of a program
> file.
>
> > Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged" and
> > require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.

>
> I'm not fully versed on this, but Vista's EULA is given prior to the
> beginning of installation, and any third party programs that have one
> disclose it prior to first use. From that perspective, it would seem as
> though they are compliant with this condition as you see them (and often
> must agree to them as a condition of use) prior to installation or use of
> the software.
>
> > Fourth question:
> > How many licenses do I need to install Vista?

>
> One license is good for one install on one system. Not like this is anything
> new.
>
> > EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
> > "You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one
> > time."
> >
> > Conundrum:
> > Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores. This
> > distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video
> > card
> > has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more,
> > processors
> > on my computer.

>
> "main processor" is the key. A processor on a video card is, by definition,
> a gpu that is dedicated solely to the function of that card. You cannot
> employ it otherwise to aid in system functions run by the OS. The license is
> to run two physical central processing units (cpu's) on the licensed device,
> regardless of the number of cores per processor.
>
> > Last questions:
> > Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is
> > unenforcable?

>
> Think of it this way: Just because you don't get caught speeding doesn't
> mean you aren't breaking the law.
>
> > If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install the
> > software, is it a valid agreement?

>
> To my knowledge, any change to an agreement already in place must be agreed
> to by all parties involved.
>
> There is never a clear cut answer on licensing questions. There will always
> be matters of interpretation, intent, and literal translation. Not to
> mention the application of local, regional, state, and federal laws in the
> many countries where Vista is offered. Plus, as technology changes, there
> may well be unintended circumstances that arise that are not currently
> addressed.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Bruce Chambers
 

Posts: n/a
Re: EULA Interpretation
Mark wrote:
> Excellent feedback!
> Thank you.
>
> 1. I did not find any third party products listed in the Vista EULA. Either
> way, good come back on the federal issue.
>
> 2. Not sure on the enforcablility issue: The text "enforc" or a derivative
> was not found within the EULA to cover uneforcable areas of the EULA.
>


True, and I can't find the standard "separability" disclaimer that's
been a part of every standard contract I've read in the last 20 years or
so. It may be that I'm wrong on this point, unless the state
(Washington) laws alluded to make such a disclaimer unnecessary.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Mark
 

Posts: n/a
RE: EULA Interpretation
I appreciate the straight forward answers!

The crux of my post was Question 1 and as stated, it appears that instead of
the old OS license being revoked by the upgrade, it is instead a part of the
current license (the "path" for upgrade.) While I don't think it is that
clear in the EULA, I can live with it and perform re-installs when needed.
(Even if it's a pain: the price of upgrading.)

Some other posts have led me to believe that the old OS was "banned" from
use, but that may only be activation of the old OS which I do not think is
required to perform the upgrade. (But, that's another post.)

Thanks again.
"Mark" wrote:

> Question 1:
> I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
> EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
> "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that
> is eligible for the upgrade."
>
> Conundrum:
> Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
> upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
> perform the upgrade again.
>
>
> Question 2:
> Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
> EULA:
> Section 2. Installation and Use
> "Before you use the software under a license... "
> Section 4. Mandatory Activation
> "Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
> installation process is limited unless it is activated."
>
> Conundrum:
> Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a license")
> with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
> worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this process
> every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am never
> identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
> limitations.
>
> Question 3:
> Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
> EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
> The software contians third party programs. The license terms with those
> programs apply to your use of them.
>
> Conundrum:
> What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
> end-user licensing rules?
> Where are these agreements?
> Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged" and
> require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.
>
> Fourth question:
> How many licenses do I need to install Vista?
> EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
> "You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one
> time."
>
> Conundrum:
> Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores. This
> distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video card
> has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more, processors
> on my computer.
>
> Last questions:
> Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is unenforcable?
> If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install the
> software, is it a valid agreement?
>

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2007
Rick Rogers
 

Posts: n/a
Re: EULA Interpretation
Funny, I asked the same question of the licensing group. Never got a
straight answer.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"Mark" <Mark@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C3DBBAE0-B76D-47AB-8D38-74C00DDF050A@microsoft.com...
> Excellent feedback!
> Thank you!
>
> Only one comment:
> If it is not supposed to be used as Trial Ware, why can it be installed
> without a Product Key?
>
> I understand a time limit for activation, just not the prior comment
>
> Thanks, again!
>
>
> "Rick Rogers" wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> "Mark" <Mark@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:78DD6960-9BC4-487D-92E7-7AD64DBD82A4@microsoft.com...
>> > Question 1:
>> > I need to know if I can re-install Vista legally:
>> > EULA: Section 13. Upgrading
>> > "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software
>> > that
>> > is eligible for the upgrade."
>> >
>> > Conundrum:
>> > Once the upgrade is installed, the software license (eligible for
>> > upgrade) is revoked and unusable. It cannot legally be re-installed to
>> > perform the upgrade again.

>>
>> It cannot be reinstalled for other usage while it is part of the upgrade
>> license. If necessary to reinstall the system cleanly, then the license
>> originally used for upgrading should be reused for installation.
>>
>> > Question 2:
>> > Am I the End-User if I do not provide a Product Key?
>> > EULA:
>> > Section 2. Installation and Use
>> > "Before you use the software under a license... "
>> > Section 4. Mandatory Activation
>> > "Your right to use the software after the time specified in the
>> > installation process is limited unless it is activated."
>> >
>> > Conundrum:
>> > Vista can be installed as Trial Ware (thereby not using "under a
>> > license")
>> > with a 30-day limit before functionality decreases. While this would be
>> > worthless to daily use of my computer. Could I not simply repeat this
>> > process
>> > every 30 days and restore a backup of my data? In this manner, I am
>> > never
>> > identified as the "End-User" per the agreement and not subject to it's
>> > limitations.

>>
>> Actually, it's not supposed to be used for trialware, nothing in the
>> license
>> allows for this (trialware agreements state that there is a specific
>> free-use period, there is no such statement in a Windows EULA). The aim
>> of
>> the delay is to allow for any initial hardware adjustments and for those
>> that don't have immediate access to the 'net or a phone for activation.
>> However, what you theorize is quite possible should you not mind
>> starting
>> from scratch every 30 days (and don't forget about having to download and
>> reinstall updates!). Also, it is possible to extend the waiting period to
>> 120 days.
>>
>> > Question 3:
>> > Am I accountable to third-party software installed by Vista?
>> > EULA: Section 19. Third Party Software
>> > The software contians third party programs. The license terms with
>> > those
>> > programs apply to your use of them.
>> >
>> > Conundrum:
>> > What third party software am I complicit to obey a different set of
>> > end-user licensing rules?

>>
>> Generally with third party software, the first usage will prompt for
>> disclosure of the terms of use.
>>
>> > Where are these agreements?

>>
>> Presumably within the program, either in text format or as part of a
>> program
>> file.
>>
>> > Federal rulings state I cannot be held to EULAs that are "packaged"
>> > and
>> > require installation prior to agreement, yet this EULA states I am.

>>
>> I'm not fully versed on this, but Vista's EULA is given prior to the
>> beginning of installation, and any third party programs that have one
>> disclose it prior to first use. From that perspective, it would seem as
>> though they are compliant with this condition as you see them (and often
>> must agree to them as a condition of use) prior to installation or use of
>> the software.
>>
>> > Fourth question:
>> > How many licenses do I need to install Vista?

>>
>> One license is good for one install on one system. Not like this is
>> anything
>> new.
>>
>> > EULA: Section 2.a Licensed Device
>> > "You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at
>> > one
>> > time."
>> >
>> > Conundrum:
>> > Most current platforms have one main processor with multiple cores.
>> > This
>> > distinction is not clearly defined in the EULA. Additionally, my video
>> > card
>> > has two processors. That means I have a total of three, or more,
>> > processors
>> > on my computer.

>>
>> "main processor" is the key. A processor on a video card is, by
>> definition,
>> a gpu that is dedicated solely to the function of that card. You cannot
>> employ it otherwise to aid in system functions run by the OS. The license
>> is
>> to run two physical central processing units (cpu's) on the licensed
>> device,
>> regardless of the number of cores per processor.
>>
>> > Last questions:
>> > Am I held accountable to a EULA if the agreement as written is
>> > unenforcable?

>>
>> Think of it this way: Just because you don't get caught speeding doesn't
>> mean you aren't breaking the law.
>>
>> > If Microsoft can change the EULA without my knowledge after I install
>> > the
>> > software, is it a valid agreement?

>>
>> To my knowledge, any change to an agreement already in place must be
>> agreed
>> to by all parties involved.
>>
>> There is never a clear cut answer on licensing questions. There will
>> always
>> be matters of interpretation, intent, and literal translation. Not to
>> mention the application of local, regional, state, and federal laws in
>> the
>> many countries where Vista is offered. Plus, as technology changes, there
>> may well be unintended circumstances that arise that are not currently
>> addressed.
>>
>> --
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>>
>>


Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
50 Years of the Multiverse Interpretation Steve General Technology News 0 07-07-2007 02:32
Office and EULA thussey microsoft.public.windows.vista.mail 2 06-19-2007 05:02
Toolbar EULA =?Utf-8?B?S3VydGlz?= microsoft.public.windows.vista.general 2 04-03-2007 23:24
More on the EULA Bill Condie microsoft.public.windows.vista.general 4 03-01-2007 03:38
Vista EULA Beck microsoft.public.windows.vista.general 1 02-28-2007 23:06




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:41.




Driver Scanner - Free Scan Now

Vistaheads.com is part of the Heads Network. See also XPHeads.com , Win7Heads.com and Win8Heads.com.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin for phpBBStyles.com.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120