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Vista 64-bit clean install...

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2007
mjd
 

Posts: n/a
Vista 64-bit clean install...
Three parter:

I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ180E/B that came with Vista Home Premium. Like a
lot of people I was a little bit frustrated to find that I had bought a
64-bit machine that has a 32-bit operating system on it - AND CLEARLY NOT
MENTIONED IN THE LITERATURE! - and wanted to upgrade it to 64-bit. Of course
Sony doesn't support that (yet). So I bought Vista Ultimate Upgrade and
upgraded the Home Premium to Ultimate 32-bit, which Sony also didn't support,
seemlessly. Then I installed XP x64 in a dual boot configuration, and except
for HDAUDIO/MODEM drivers that worked out pretty good. Now I want to upgrade
the partition with Ultimate 32-bit to Ultimate 64-bit.

1. I am on my last day before failing to activate will cripple my computer.
Can I activate the 32-bit version and still be able to install and activate
the 64-bit version later, or am I at a decision point here?

2. I can only do a "clean install," which I'm expecting is going to require
me to insert a disk proving I am eligible for upgrade at some point...
a) it this true, or will it install without asking for a disk?
b) since this system came with Vista pre-installed, I don't have a disk.
If it asks for a disk what options do I have? Is there some disk I can create
with my pre-installed system that will suit for this purpose? If not, will
any of the XP Professional or XP 64-bit Professional disks suffice in this
case?

3. Why do I have to do a clean install? That's silly, right? It's still NTFS
file system, isn't it? If I can't upgrade from one version to the next which
both use the same file system without wiping the old drive first then what
else is going on in the install?

Thanks, as always!
Merrick
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2007
Carey Frisch [MVP]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista 64-bit clean install...
Since you already used your Vista Ultimate license to upgrade
from Vista Home Premium, you cannot use that same license
to install the 64-bit version. You would need to purchase a
new license for the second installation.

Ordering Additional Licenses for Windows Vista
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...e/default.mspx

32-bit and 64-bit Windows: frequently asked questions
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...01033.mspx#ERC

Installation choices for 64-bit consumer versions of Windows Vista
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932795/en-us

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"mjd" wrote:

Three parter:

I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ180E/B that came with Vista Home Premium. Like a
lot of people I was a little bit frustrated to find that I had bought a
64-bit machine that has a 32-bit operating system on it - AND CLEARLY NOT
MENTIONED IN THE LITERATURE! - and wanted to upgrade it to 64-bit. Of course
Sony doesn't support that (yet). So I bought Vista Ultimate Upgrade and
upgraded the Home Premium to Ultimate 32-bit, which Sony also didn't support,
seemlessly. Then I installed XP x64 in a dual boot configuration, and except
for HDAUDIO/MODEM drivers that worked out pretty good. Now I want to upgrade
the partition with Ultimate 32-bit to Ultimate 64-bit.

1. I am on my last day before failing to activate will cripple my computer.
Can I activate the 32-bit version and still be able to install and activate
the 64-bit version later, or am I at a decision point here?

2. I can only do a "clean install," which I'm expecting is going to require
me to insert a disk proving I am eligible for upgrade at some point...
a) it this true, or will it install without asking for a disk?
b) since this system came with Vista pre-installed, I don't have a disk.
If it asks for a disk what options do I have? Is there some disk I can create
with my pre-installed system that will suit for this purpose? If not, will
any of the XP Professional or XP 64-bit Professional disks suffice in this
case?

3. Why do I have to do a clean install? That's silly, right? It's still NTFS
file system, isn't it? If I can't upgrade from one version to the next which
both use the same file system without wiping the old drive first then what
else is going on in the install?

Thanks, as always!
Merrick
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2007
Rick Rogers
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista 64-bit clean install...
Hi Merrick,

> I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ180E/B that came with Vista Home Premium. Like a
> lot of people I was a little bit frustrated to find that I had bought a
> 64-bit machine that has a 32-bit operating system on it - AND CLEARLY NOT
> MENTIONED IN THE LITERATURE! - and wanted to upgrade it to 64-bit. Of
> course
> Sony doesn't support that (yet).


On the flip side, and I don't disagree with you over this deceptive
practice, if Sony sold a bunch of system with the 64-bit OS preinstalled,
then lots of people would be complaining about software they have that won't
run under it. I think the systems should be clearly labeled about having a
32 bit OS install.

> So I bought Vista Ultimate Upgrade and
> upgraded the Home Premium to Ultimate 32-bit, which Sony also didn't
> support,
> seemlessly. Then I installed XP x64 in a dual boot configuration, and
> except
> for HDAUDIO/MODEM drivers that worked out pretty good. Now I want to
> upgrade
> the partition with Ultimate 32-bit to Ultimate 64-bit.


No problem, but it's not truly an upgrade, but rather a clean install. There
is no upgrade path from 32 to 64 bit. The biggest concern is whether or not
64 bit drivers are available for your hardware. You want to verify this
before beginning to prevent needless frustration afterwards.

> 1. I am on my last day before failing to activate will cripple my
> computer.
> Can I activate the 32-bit version and still be able to install and
> activate
> the 64-bit version later, or am I at a decision point here?


Your license will allow you to use either 32 or 64 bit. If you activate one
and later remove it and install the other, you will merely need to
reactivate. This will likely require the use of the phone option, but
activation will still be allowed.

> 2. I can only do a "clean install," which I'm expecting is going to
> require
> me to insert a disk proving I am eligible for upgrade at some point...


No, that is incorrect. Unlike previous versions of Windows, a Vista upgrade
Product key requires that you begin installation from within a running
instance of the qualifying OS. If you attempt a clean install by booting the
disk, when you enter the product key you will receive an error message
telling you such. There is a known workaround that involves installing Vista
twice, but that is a lengthy process.

> a) it this true, or will it install without asking for a disk?


See above, as this has changed.

> b) since this system came withVista pre-installed, I don't have a disk.
> If it asks for a disk what options do I have?


Again, any upgrade installation has to be started from within a qualifying
OS. So having a system disk is immaterial.

> Is there some disk I can create with my pre-installed system that will
> suit for this purpose? If not, will
> any of the XP Professional or XP 64-bit Professional disks suffice in this
> case?
>
> 3. Why do I have to do a clean install? That's silly, right? It's still
> NTFS
> file system, isn't it? If I can't upgrade from one version to the next
> which
> both use the same file system without wiping the old drive first then what
> else is going on in the install?


It has nothing to do with the file system (which, incidentally, will not
change). Installing a 64-bit OS is not like an upgrade, it cannot simply
change system files and structure. In fact, it is an entirely new manner of
handling the system hardware using a different matrix of addressing
hardware, and wider data paths to funnel information to the memory and
system processor.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

"mjd" <mjd@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FB49063B-2BCF-4955-91C4-8A3FEF8E8022@microsoft.com...
> Three parter:
>


>
>
> Thanks, as always!
> Merrick


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2007
John Barnes
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista 64-bit clean install...
The 64-bit upgrade allows installation from the DVD, but the qualifying os
must be on the computer.

"Rick Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:eoHfvnA3HHA.5852@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Hi Merrick,
>
>> I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ180E/B that came with Vista Home Premium. Like a
>> lot of people I was a little bit frustrated to find that I had bought a
>> 64-bit machine that has a 32-bit operating system on it - AND CLEARLY NOT
>> MENTIONED IN THE LITERATURE! - and wanted to upgrade it to 64-bit. Of
>> course
>> Sony doesn't support that (yet).

>
> On the flip side, and I don't disagree with you over this deceptive
> practice, if Sony sold a bunch of system with the 64-bit OS preinstalled,
> then lots of people would be complaining about software they have that
> won't run under it. I think the systems should be clearly labeled about
> having a 32 bit OS install.
>
>> So I bought Vista Ultimate Upgrade and
>> upgraded the Home Premium to Ultimate 32-bit, which Sony also didn't
>> support,
>> seemlessly. Then I installed XP x64 in a dual boot configuration, and
>> except
>> for HDAUDIO/MODEM drivers that worked out pretty good. Now I want to
>> upgrade
>> the partition with Ultimate 32-bit to Ultimate 64-bit.

>
> No problem, but it's not truly an upgrade, but rather a clean install.
> There is no upgrade path from 32 to 64 bit. The biggest concern is whether
> or not 64 bit drivers are available for your hardware. You want to verify
> this before beginning to prevent needless frustration afterwards.
>
>> 1. I am on my last day before failing to activate will cripple my
>> computer.
>> Can I activate the 32-bit version and still be able to install and
>> activate
>> the 64-bit version later, or am I at a decision point here?

>
> Your license will allow you to use either 32 or 64 bit. If you activate
> one and later remove it and install the other, you will merely need to
> reactivate. This will likely require the use of the phone option, but
> activation will still be allowed.
>
>> 2. I can only do a "clean install," which I'm expecting is going to
>> require
>> me to insert a disk proving I am eligible for upgrade at some point...

>
> No, that is incorrect. Unlike previous versions of Windows, a Vista
> upgrade Product key requires that you begin installation from within a
> running instance of the qualifying OS. If you attempt a clean install by
> booting the disk, when you enter the product key you will receive an error
> message telling you such. There is a known workaround that involves
> installing Vista twice, but that is a lengthy process.
>
>> a) it this true, or will it install without asking for a disk?

>
> See above, as this has changed.
>
>> b) since this system came withVista pre-installed, I don't have a disk.
>> If it asks for a disk what options do I have?

>
> Again, any upgrade installation has to be started from within a qualifying
> OS. So having a system disk is immaterial.
>
>> Is there some disk I can create with my pre-installed system that will
>> suit for this purpose? If not, will
>> any of the XP Professional or XP 64-bit Professional disks suffice in
>> this case?
>>
>> 3. Why do I have to do a clean install? That's silly, right? It's still
>> NTFS
>> file system, isn't it? If I can't upgrade from one version to the next
>> which
>> both use the same file system without wiping the old drive first then
>> what
>> else is going on in the install?

>
> It has nothing to do with the file system (which, incidentally, will not
> change). Installing a 64-bit OS is not like an upgrade, it cannot simply
> change system files and structure. In fact, it is an entirely new manner
> of handling the system hardware using a different matrix of addressing
> hardware, and wider data paths to funnel information to the memory and
> system processor.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
> My thoughts http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com
>
> "mjd" <mjd@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:FB49063B-2BCF-4955-91C4-8A3FEF8E8022@microsoft.com...
>> Three parter:
>>

>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, as always!
>> Merrick

>


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2007
Generator
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista 64-bit clean install...

i would not upgrade to 64bit os.. on a notebook..not yet anyhow..ok for
pc,s but i have heard 64bit os for laptops are not great alot of driver
issues,, thats what i have read.


--
Generator
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007
mjd
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista 64-bit clean install...
True enough, but it's really just a matter of doing your homework. I ran into
the same issues with XP64 on this computer. It was dual booting Vista
Ultimate 32-bit and XP 64 Professional. XP64 runs great with only three real
issues:

1. No audio drivers (for the OEM audio - I could pick up a USB audio device
that supports XP64 and be all set when booting XP64)
2. No MODEM driver (can't really find a way to care much about that).
3. The video drivers are fine - had to fiddle with an nVidia INF file to get
that installed - but since it's not via Sony it doesn't support the hardware
keys for screen brightness, overhead display connection, etc. Still not too
much to worry about.

The big XP64 problem is that if there is no support now there's no reason to
expect there ever will be.

Vista-64, which is now in place of Vista-32, only has the video issue, which
is identical, and I also can't seem to get the proper driver for my Intel
82801HEM SATA Raid controller set up. Since I'm not expecting to set up Raid
on my laptop anytime soon, it's again not much of a big deal. However, this
seems to be the pathway to my Sony memory stick and SD Flash readers, but
again no big deal.

Those ARE likely to be resolved at some point, and aren't show stoppers now.

BTW - any news on native support for the nVidia 8400M GT (not via INF
fiddling, like I did) or the Intel 82801HEM SATA Raid controller (please,
don't tell me to get iata76_enu.exe from Intel - that successfully configured
every other Intel device, but not this one) would be greatly appreciated!

"Generator" wrote:

>
> i would not upgrade to 64bit os.. on a notebook..not yet anyhow..ok for
> pc,s but i have heard 64bit os for laptops are not great alot of driver
> issues,, thats what i have read.
>
>
> --
> Generator
>

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2007
John Barnes
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista 64-bit clean install...
Doesn't look like the video is supported either in released or beta drivers
for 64-bit. Vista64 does have better driver support than XP64, but does not
have the stability advantages xp64 offered over native xp86. XP64 was built
on the server code base, while both Vista86 and Vista64 are built on the
same code base. I am running Vista64 on one machine, because I can, but I
see no advantages for me and it does not seem as stable as my Vista32 and
far less stable than the XP64 machine IMHO

"mjd" <mjd@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C12889D4-B520-4B27-86FF-AE92EB385CF8@microsoft.com...
> True enough, but it's really just a matter of doing your homework. I ran
> into
> the same issues with XP64 on this computer. It was dual booting Vista
> Ultimate 32-bit and XP 64 Professional. XP64 runs great with only three
> real
> issues:
>
> 1. No audio drivers (for the OEM audio - I could pick up a USB audio
> device
> that supports XP64 and be all set when booting XP64)
> 2. No MODEM driver (can't really find a way to care much about that).
> 3. The video drivers are fine - had to fiddle with an nVidia INF file to
> get
> that installed - but since it's not via Sony it doesn't support the
> hardware
> keys for screen brightness, overhead display connection, etc. Still not
> too
> much to worry about.
>
> The big XP64 problem is that if there is no support now there's no reason
> to
> expect there ever will be.
>
> Vista-64, which is now in place of Vista-32, only has the video issue,
> which
> is identical, and I also can't seem to get the proper driver for my Intel
> 82801HEM SATA Raid controller set up. Since I'm not expecting to set up
> Raid
> on my laptop anytime soon, it's again not much of a big deal. However,
> this
> seems to be the pathway to my Sony memory stick and SD Flash readers, but
> again no big deal.
>
> Those ARE likely to be resolved at some point, and aren't show stoppers
> now.
>
> BTW - any news on native support for the nVidia 8400M GT (not via INF
> fiddling, like I did) or the Intel 82801HEM SATA Raid controller (please,
> don't tell me to get iata76_enu.exe from Intel - that successfully
> configured
> every other Intel device, but not this one) would be greatly appreciated!
>
> "Generator" wrote:
>
>>
>> i would not upgrade to 64bit os.. on a notebook..not yet anyhow..ok for
>> pc,s but i have heard 64bit os for laptops are not great alot of driver
>> issues,, thats what i have read.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Generator
>>


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