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Vista will not boot - work around

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2007
Richard Urban
 

Posts: n/a
Vista will not boot - work around
I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers. On
eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
of people who post here with a similar condition.

The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:

1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
turns out)

2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
partition/partitions

3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD

When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
is reserved at the beginning of the drive.

The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk chosen
by the user for the Vista install.

The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup, the
user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition). It
is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
recognized.

If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
takes the code from the DVD.

This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
code is written to the desired drive/partition.

Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out of
the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your other
drives.

Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to the
desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken up
by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked to
reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.

The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
drives if you so desire.

Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
"will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
machines.


--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


Reply With Quote
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2007
=?Utf-8?B?cmV0aXJlZCBmaXJl?=
 

Posts: n/a
RE: Vista will not boot - work around
I also saw the same issue and communicated to Microsoft, but have not
received resolve from them...... Also for-your-information....Complete PC
backup and restore feature on computers you mentioned will not work...You
will be able to make a Complete PC backup without issue, but the Complete PC
Restore will fail....The SATA-PATA issue is real and Microsoft is aware, but
no answer yet.....

"Richard Urban" wrote:

> I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers. On
> eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
> problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
> of people who post here with a similar condition.
>
> The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:
>
> 1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
> turns out)
>
> 2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
> partition/partitions
>
> 3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD
>
> When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
> is reserved at the beginning of the drive.
>
> The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
> unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
> have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
> filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk chosen
> by the user for the Vista install.
>
> The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup, the
> user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
> the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition). It
> is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
> recognized.
>
> If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
> takes the code from the DVD.
>
> This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
> DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
> that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
> code is written to the desired drive/partition.
>
> Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
> Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
> drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out of
> the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your other
> drives.
>
> Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to the
> desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
> You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken up
> by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked to
> reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.
>
> The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
> drives if you so desire.
>
> Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
> old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
> going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
> "will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
> the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
> machines.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban MVP
> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2007
Andyistic
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista will not boot - work around
Turns out this is what I do.
When I want to install Vista (or any O/S for that matter),
I remove ALL drives except for the drive to host the installation (and the
DVD units).
After the base system is installed, then I reconnect the other drives (quite
a few)
and let Windows find the new hardware and install drivers for all of it.
Quite a hassle, but it's necessary.

-- Andy


"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ONgaZ1cXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers. On
> eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
> problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
> of people who post here with a similar condition.
>
> The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:
>
> 1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
> turns out)
>
> 2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
> partition/partitions
>
> 3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD
>
> When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
> is reserved at the beginning of the drive.
>
> The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
> unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
> have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
> filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk
> chosen
> by the user for the Vista install.
>
> The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup,
> the
> user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
> the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition).
> It
> is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
> recognized.
>
> If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
> takes the code from the DVD.
>
> This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
> DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
> that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
> code is written to the desired drive/partition.
>
> Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
> Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
> drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out
> of
> the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your
> other
> drives.
>
> Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to
> the
> desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
> You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken
> up
> by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked
> to
> reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.
>
> The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
> drives if you so desire.
>
> Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
> old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
> going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
> "will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
> the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
> machines.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban MVP
> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>
>



Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2007
=?Utf-8?B?cmV0aXJlZCBmaXJl?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista will not boot - work around
This "workaround" will allow Vista to boot and operate, but WILL NOT solve
the Complert PC Backup and Restore issue.....Thus giving a false sence of
security..thinking one can do a complete backup and then depend on being able
to restore it....In my opinion this is unacceptable and the Vista code must
be changed to correct this, and new DVD's issued to those affected.....Lets
see how Microsoft respondsto this issue as they have known about this for
almost a month now....

"Andyistic" wrote:

> Turns out this is what I do.
> When I want to install Vista (or any O/S for that matter),
> I remove ALL drives except for the drive to host the installation (and the
> DVD units).
> After the base system is installed, then I reconnect the other drives (quite
> a few)
> and let Windows find the new hardware and install drivers for all of it.
> Quite a hassle, but it's necessary.
>
> -- Andy
>
>
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ONgaZ1cXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers. On
> > eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
> > problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
> > of people who post here with a similar condition.
> >
> > The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:
> >
> > 1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
> > turns out)
> >
> > 2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
> > partition/partitions
> >
> > 3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD
> >
> > When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
> > is reserved at the beginning of the drive.
> >
> > The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
> > unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
> > have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
> > filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk
> > chosen
> > by the user for the Vista install.
> >
> > The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup,
> > the
> > user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
> > the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition).
> > It
> > is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
> > recognized.
> >
> > If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
> > takes the code from the DVD.
> >
> > This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
> > DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
> > that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
> > code is written to the desired drive/partition.
> >
> > Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
> > Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
> > drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out
> > of
> > the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your
> > other
> > drives.
> >
> > Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to
> > the
> > desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
> > You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken
> > up
> > by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked
> > to
> > reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.
> >
> > The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
> > drives if you so desire.
> >
> > Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
> > old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
> > going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
> > "will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
> > the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
> > machines.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Richard Urban MVP
> > Microsoft Windows Shell/User
> >
> >

>
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2007
Chad Harris
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista will not boot - work around
This explains what we have been seeing and hearing on this group and other
ones for months and why the workarounds have been like yours.

It would be nice if there were a way to correct it in a service pack, but
I'm not sure that's possible. You have to wonder though, Richard, how this
wasn't picked up and corrected prior to RTM.

This is nice work.

CH


"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ONgaZ1cXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers. On
> eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
> problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
> of people who post here with a similar condition.
>
> The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:
>
> 1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
> turns out)
>
> 2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
> partition/partitions
>
> 3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD
>
> When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
> is reserved at the beginning of the drive.
>
> The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
> unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
> have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
> filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk
> chosen
> by the user for the Vista install.
>
> The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup,
> the
> user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
> the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition).
> It
> is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
> recognized.
>
> If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
> takes the code from the DVD.
>
> This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
> DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
> that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
> code is written to the desired drive/partition.
>
> Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
> Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
> drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out
> of
> the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your
> other
> drives.
>
> Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to
> the
> desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
> You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken
> up
> by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked
> to
> reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.
>
> The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
> drives if you so desire.
>
> Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
> old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
> going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
> "will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
> the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
> machines.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban MVP
> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>
>


Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007
CZ
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista will not boot - work around
>> 1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
>> turns out)


Richard:

Does that apply to two SATA disks or only to a mix of SATA and PATA disks?

I assume that you are using Vista to create the partitions.
I have used XP to create the partitions and have not had the problem.

My 1.5 yrs old Dell Dimension 9100 with two SATA disks:
Disk 00 has one primary partition and an ext partition
Disk 01 has an ext partition only

I have installed Vista RTM several times without the 8 MB issue when using
the Vista DVD boot method to install Vista.


>> I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers.
>> On

eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
of people who post here with a similar condition.

The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:

1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
turns out)

2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
partition/partitions

3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD

When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
is reserved at the beginning of the drive.

The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk chosen
by the user for the Vista install.

The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup, the
user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition). It
is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
recognized.

If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
takes the code from the DVD.

This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
code is written to the desired drive/partition.

Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out of
the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your other
drives.

Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to the
desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken up
by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked to
reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.

The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
drives if you so desire.

Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
"will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
machines.

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007
andy
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista will not boot - work around
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 14:51:32 -0500, "Richard Urban"
<richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers. On
>eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
>problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
>of people who post here with a similar condition.
>
>The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:
>
>1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
>turns out)
>
>2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
>partition/partitions
>
>3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD
>
>When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
>is reserved at the beginning of the drive.
>
>The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
>unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
>have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
>filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk chosen
>by the user for the Vista install.

This makes no sense. Boot code cannot be written to unallocated disk
space. It has to be written to a valid file system.

>
>The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup, the
>user finds that Vista will not boot.

This is because the BIOS is booting from a hard disk that does not
contain the system partition. If you go into BIOS setup and change the
hard disk that the BIOS boots, then Vista will boot.


> Vista is looking for the boot code on
>the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition). It
>is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
>recognized.
>
>If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine.

This means that there is in fact valid boot code on one of the hard
disks, namely, the one that the BIOS told Windows setup is the disk
that it is set to boot. Otherwise, the operating system would not be
able to boot at all. The startup code (i.e., the code that issues the
"Press any key to boot from the CD/DVD") on the DVD does the same
thing that Windows setup does, namely, identifies the boot disk from
the BIOS. Then it boots that disk if no key is pressed.

> Startup
>takes the code from the DVD.
>
>This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
>DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
>that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
>code is written to the desired drive/partition.

The problem is the motherboard BIOS. If it provides the wrong
information to Windows Vista or XP setup, there is nothing Windows
setup can do to fix it other than to allow the user to manually
specify which disk should contain the system partition.

If you want to see if a motherboard has this problem, just run
Windows XP setup (up to the point in the initial text phase that shows
the disks and their partitions), and see which partition is assigned
C:. Then reboot the computer, go into BIOS setup and change the disk
that the BIOS boots (i.e., the first disk in the list of drives under
Hard Disk Boot Priority (Award/Phoenix) or Hard Disk Drives (AMI)).
Run Windows XP setup again and check which disk now has the C:
partition. If the same disk has the C: partition, then the motherboard
BIOS has the problem. If the new disk has the C: partition, then the
motherboard BIOS is okay.

>
>Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
>Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
>drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out of
>the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your other
>drives.
>
>Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to the
>desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
>You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken up
>by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked to
>reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.
>
>The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
>drives if you so desire.
>
>Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
>old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
>going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
>"will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
>the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
>machines.


Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007
Richard Urban
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista will not boot - work around
CZ,

I just assisted a fellow yesterday in the
microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation group who had 2 SATA drives.

When he reinstalled with the 2nd SATA drive disconnected his system booted
fine.

It may well be dependent on motherboard, chipset, SATA implementation or
some other thing. But, it has been happening way too frequently.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"CZ" <CZ@no99spam.com> wrote in message
news:O7arZ$gXHHA.1216@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> 1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
>>> turns out)

>
> Richard:
>
> Does that apply to two SATA disks or only to a mix of SATA and PATA disks?
>
> I assume that you are using Vista to create the partitions.
> I have used XP to create the partitions and have not had the problem.
>
> My 1.5 yrs old Dell Dimension 9100 with two SATA disks:
> Disk 00 has one primary partition and an ext partition
> Disk 01 has an ext partition only
>
> I have installed Vista RTM several times without the 8 MB issue when using
> the Vista DVD boot method to install Vista.
>
>
>>> I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers.
>>> On

> eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
> problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
> of people who post here with a similar condition.
>
> The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:
>
> 1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
> turns out)
>
> 2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
> partition/partitions
>
> 3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD
>
> When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
> is reserved at the beginning of the drive.
>
> The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
> unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
> have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
> filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk
> chosen
> by the user for the Vista install.
>
> The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup,
> the
> user finds that Vista will not boot. Vista is looking for the boot code on
> the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition).
> It
> is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
> recognized.
>
> If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine. Startup
> takes the code from the DVD.
>
> This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
> DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
> that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
> code is written to the desired drive/partition.
>
> Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
> Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
> drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out
> of
> the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your
> other
> drives.
>
> Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to
> the
> desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
> You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken
> up
> by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked
> to
> reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.
>
> The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
> drives if you so desire.
>
> Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
> old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
> going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
> "will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
> the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
> machines.
>


Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2007
Richard Urban
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista will not boot - work around
Andy,

I have found the written code in the 8 meg unallocated space by using a hex
editor. In some cases (three) this has caused the 2nd drive to become
unusable as well, as it somehow altered the partition table for that drive.
The entire drive has showed up under Acronis Disk Director as being
unrecognized. Previously it was a logical drive with one partition,
formatted as NTFS.

You're right. It makes no sense and should not happen. But it **is**
happening, as many who work these groups can attest to. I first saw this
during a beta 2 install, and it has persisted right through to RTM code.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"andy" <bogusaddress@bogusaddress.123> wrote in message
newsi9lu25a62okk9t36bsob7gel57745pv2h@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 14:51:32 -0500, "Richard Urban"
> <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I have installed the various versions of Vista on 56 various computers. On
>>eight of those computers I have run into, and solved, this nasty boot
>>problem. I have also assisted with this problem for a rather large handful
>>of people who post here with a similar condition.
>>
>>The problem concerns computers with the following configuration/condition:
>>
>>1. A computer with multiple hard drives (any mix of S-ATA or PATA it
>>turns out)
>>
>>2. Any of the 2nd, or higher, drives has been setup as having a logical
>>partition/partitions
>>
>>3. The user installs Vista by booting from the DVD
>>
>>When a drive is setup with a logical partition, 8 meg of unallocated space
>>is reserved at the beginning of the drive.
>>
>>The Vista installer, it appears, will start installing boot code to the
>>unallocated space on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th drive. I have used a hex editor and
>>have found this code there. This 8 meg of unallocated space is quickly
>>filled and the installer places the remainder of the code on the disk
>>chosen
>>by the user for the Vista install.

> This makes no sense. Boot code cannot be written to unallocated disk
> space. It has to be written to a valid file system.
>
>>
>>The Vista install completes and the user removes the DVD. Upon startup,
>>the
>>user finds that Vista will not boot.

> This is because the BIOS is booting from a hard disk that does not
> contain the system partition. If you go into BIOS setup and change the
> hard disk that the BIOS boots, then Vista will boot.
>
>
>> Vista is looking for the boot code on
>>the drive where the user had chosen to install Vista (system partition).
>>It
>>is not there. Part of it resides on another drive where it is not
>>recognized.
>>
>>If the user puts the DVD into the drive tray, Vista boots fine.

> This means that there is in fact valid boot code on one of the hard
> disks, namely, the one that the BIOS told Windows setup is the disk
> that it is set to boot. Otherwise, the operating system would not be
> able to boot at all. The startup code (i.e., the code that issues the
> "Press any key to boot from the CD/DVD") on the DVD does the same
> thing that Windows setup does, namely, identifies the boot disk from
> the BIOS. Then it boots that disk if no key is pressed.
>
>> Startup
>>takes the code from the DVD.
>>
>>This should not occur, but it is too late to change the code on the Vista
>>DVD's at this point. The work around is to physically disconnect any drive
>>that you do not want the Vista installer to touch. In this way, all of the
>>code is written to the desired drive/partition.

> The problem is the motherboard BIOS. If it provides the wrong
> information to Windows Vista or XP setup, there is nothing Windows
> setup can do to fix it other than to allow the user to manually
> specify which disk should contain the system partition.
>
> If you want to see if a motherboard has this problem, just run
> Windows XP setup (up to the point in the initial text phase that shows
> the disks and their partitions), and see which partition is assigned
> C:. Then reboot the computer, go into BIOS setup and change the disk
> that the BIOS boots (i.e., the first disk in the list of drives under
> Hard Disk Boot Priority (Award/Phoenix) or Hard Disk Drives (AMI)).
> Run Windows XP setup again and check which disk now has the C:
> partition. If the same disk has the C: partition, then the motherboard
> BIOS has the problem. If the new disk has the C: partition, then the
> motherboard BIOS is okay.
>
>>
>>Upon arriving at the Windows desktop, go to system management | Disk
>>Management and change the drive letters for your CD drive, DVD drive, USB
>>drives, card readers etc. to the end of the alphabet. This gets them out
>>of
>>the way prior to you shutting down the computer and reconnecting your
>>other
>>drives.
>>
>>Now, shut down your computer and reconnect your drives. Upon booting to
>>the
>>desktop, you will see that the new drives are recognized and initialized.
>>You will also see that the drive letters are in sequence, and not broken
>>up
>>by the various other drives (you previously moved them). You may be asked
>>to
>>reboot so the changes can be made permanent. Do so if directed.
>>
>>The next time you boot to the desktop you can rearrange those re-lettered
>>drives if you so desire.
>>
>>Now, I am not certain how pervasive this problem is but I have seen it on
>>old/new motherboards from 3 major M/B manufacturers. It is not, of course,
>>going to affect those who purchase a new computer with Vista on it. It
>>"will" affect those who upgrade or build their own computers, as these are
>>the users who are more likely to have multiple drives installed in their
>>machines.

>


Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2007
SugarDaddy
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista will not boot - work around
On Mar 4, 9:26 am, "Richard Urban"
<richardurbanREMOVET...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> You're right. It makes no sense and should not happen. But it **is**
> happening, as many who work these groups can attest to. I first saw this
> during a beta 2 install, and it has persisted right through to RTM code.


It absolutely is happening. I am having the same if not similar
issue.

I have 2 PATA drives (neither of which ever had an OS installed) and 1
SATA drive which used to have XP on it before I installed Vista 64
where it created the 'Windows.old' folder. When booting without the
Vista DVD in the drive, I get the "ntoskrnl.exe is missing or corrupt"
error message. Booting with the DVD in the drive (not booting FROM
the DVD), it boots into Vista fine from the boot partition. In Disk
Management, it says that my Master PATA drive contains the system
partition while the singular SATA drive contains the boot partition
and all that other good stuff. I tried disabling the IDE controller
in the BIOS and running a repair from the Vista DVD, but it didn't
work. It recognized a problem, said it would fix it, but didn't.
After I did that, I couldn't even boot with the DVD in the drive. I
had to re-enable the IDE controller in the BIOS to get it back to it's
old faulty behavior rather than the current completely broken
behavior.

Needless to say, this is incredibly frustrating behavior. I want my 3
drives to be C, D and E, but they're C, F, and H. I can't change them
to the configuration I want because the system partition resides on F,
which I want to be D.

So the solution is what? Format the SATA, disconnect the 2 PATA and
reinstall? Is this not the hackiest, worst Windows boot scheme ever?
Yuck.

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