stop over complicating things

<snip>
>
> Windows 2000 was great, XP even better, but with VISTA you've added a
> bunch
> of cool features encumbered by 1000lbs of useless fat.
>

Others have spoken to the specific issues with Mail and Photos. I'll pass on
that here.

Yes, it takes a while to get used to Vista. Using the Search tool helps alot
in terms of finding stuff without having to drill down through the UI. (Just
make sure you add folders to the search index that are excluded by default.
I search the Windows directory frequently... have to add that to Vista's
search index.) Can't find something in Control Panel? Use CP's search tool;
works great! The Help system is vastly improved over XP. There are way more
"admin type" tools in Vista. (Check out the Reliability and Performance
Monitor; scha-weeeet!)

The "eye candy" is not essential, no doubt. But once one has gotten used to
Aero's translucent borders... well, hey, they're not bad, imho. Flip 3D?
Ahhhh... don't use it that much. Do like the thumbnails when one hovers the
mouse over taskbar buttons. But essential? Naw.

As to Macs... well, I would love to get a Mac. Every time I price them,
though, they're so ridiculously more expensive than PC's that I just can't
bring myself to justify the cost. And they surely have their share of eye
candy. And they're not trouble free... just go and scan through some of the
forums on the Apple site... not much different that what one sees in this
NG.Lan

Over all, I've been very pleased with Vista. My mantra? Clean install.
Upgrades have worked for some, some folks with OEM boxes have had little or
no problems, but I'm a firm believer in the Vista Clean Install. FWIW.

Lang

-->Inline

"flylake" <flylake@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:01A6500F-885F-4F02-A51A-C978F655AAC6@microsoft.com...
> OK, I'm an old fart and I've used Windows since 1983 (v1 beta). I've
> always
> been a Windows fan, until now. While there are some things I like about
> VISTA there are a ton that I just cannot stand. For example:

-->You have a few years on me, I didn't start doing Windows until 2.0 came
out

> 1. Outlook (now Windows mail) no longer supports multiple user accounts.
> I
> need to be able to see 5 different email accounts - 2 for work, my
> personal
> account, an account I use to be the administrator of a friend's web site,
> and
> the account I use to monitor my kid's online activity. Windows Mail
> doesn't
> support this so now I need to look for a 3rd party program to do what I
> need
> it to do. I'm not going to set up a separate user account for each email.
> What a stupid move.

--> I must have a special version, as I have 6 accounts currently on Windows
Mail, the replacement for Outlook Express.

> 2. Photo capture is a royal pain in the arse. It used to be real easy.
> Plug in the camera, turn it on and capture my photos. Now the new
> directory
> structure with tagging is so complex it is ridiculous. I copied 10
> pictures
> over from my camera and VISTA returned a page long directory structure
> when I
> was done. I couldn't begin to find my pictures after I closed the preveiw
> screen until I closed everything and used Explorer. And, geez, you guys
> have even ruined explorer. You've taken a lean directory searching
> machine
> and turned it into a fat slob of a program. Give us people that know how
> to
> use a directory the ability to bypass all this baloney.

--> Haven't used it, call me old fashioned

> 3. IE 7 is also a pain to use. You took all the feartures of IE6 and
> stripped them off the main page, putting them in drop down menus. IE6 was
> so
> much simpler to navigate and use. Give us back menu buttons at the top of
> the screen. Having to navigate drop down menues for everything is a royal
> pain.

--> View ->Toolbars ->Menu Bar

Richard Urban wrote:
> What? You want to stay with XP for the next 20 years. I get it. Then
> you have the opportunity to complain when XP doesn't work with new
> hardware and you can complain that M/S can't even update their
> operating systems.
> You are just whining.

No you are putting words in my mouth, which I never uttered, which imho
borders on lying.

The big push for Vista to me feels like forcing. and until the DRM
issues, among other things are resolved (yeah right...), I will not be
using it for a primary OS. I will NEVER use an operating system that's
based on limited what I can do, especially with ontent that I purchase,
where as pirates that downlaod the same content (sometimes at better
quality), do so without any such restrictions.

Throw in the crazy WGA/activation scheme, and I don't know how one could
recommend this OS as a replacement for anything. Virtually anything
Vista can do can be done in XP and other OS's... Widgets (that MS ripped
off), Win Blinds, etc, have allowed you to do what Vista does for at
least half a decade. And from what I hear, DX 10 support for XP is well
on the way (though not necessarly from MS.)

As for future hardware compatiblity, it would be a bad move to drop
support in XP, and I don't really see that happening for a long time,
considering most drivers I've seen in recent hardwares I've purhased
also include 2000, NT4, and 98/ME drivers in addition to XP and Vista
x86 and x64 drivers.

-Saran

john bloe wrote:
> Windows mail seems to have dropped support for hotmail access too.
> That was I think very nice feature of Outlook Express.

Yes but it seems the advertisers* on the http:// version were loosing
out and we can't have that now can we.....



* Even though the ad blocker in my browser blocked them anyways.

I think you may be in for a shock. XP will not be supported for more than
five years and more likely two by MS and many processors will out distance
lesser bistros. Printer markers will soon stop supply update drivers because
they make no profit from printers and rely on ink sales. Video cards will
have to meet bigger demands and the older ones will not be supported and
that is only half of it.



"Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
news:eK%23aveWzHHA.3772@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Richard Urban wrote:
>> What? You want to stay with XP for the next 20 years. I get it. Then
>> you have the opportunity to complain when XP doesn't work with new
>> hardware and you can complain that M/S can't even update their
>> operating systems.
>> You are just whining.
>
> No you are putting words in my mouth, which I never uttered, which imho
> borders on lying.
>
> The big push for Vista to me feels like forcing. and until the DRM issues,
> among other things are resolved (yeah right...), I will not be using it
> for a primary OS. I will NEVER use an operating system that's based on
> limited what I can do, especially with ontent that I purchase, where as
> pirates that downlaod the same content (sometimes at better quality), do
> so without any such restrictions.
>
> Throw in the crazy WGA/activation scheme, and I don't know how one could
> recommend this OS as a replacement for anything. Virtually anything Vista
> can do can be done in XP and other OS's... Widgets (that MS ripped off),
> Win Blinds, etc, have allowed you to do what Vista does for at least half
> a decade. And from what I hear, DX 10 support for XP is well on the way
> (though not necessarly from MS.)
>
> As for future hardware compatiblity, it would be a bad move to drop
> support in XP, and I don't really see that happening for a long time,
> considering most drivers I've seen in recent hardwares I've purhased also
> include 2000, NT4, and 98/ME drivers in addition to XP and Vista x86 and
> x64 drivers.
>
> -Saran
>
>

Ian wrote:
> I think you may be in for a shock. XP will not be supported for more
> than five years and more likely two by MS and many processors will
> out distance lesser bistros. Printer markers will soon stop supply
> update drivers because they make no profit from printers and rely on
> ink sales. Video cards will have to meet bigger demands and the older
> ones will not be supported and that is only half of it.

Then why are some driver makers still supporting versions as far back as
NT 4 and 9x? At the least, any device I've bought in recent months
support as far back as 2000, so I very much doubt driver support will
just disappear in 5 years as you say. In practice, it's far from the
reality you paint.

-saran

> "Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
> news:eK%23aveWzHHA.3772@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>> What? You want to stay with XP for the next 20 years. I get it. Then
>>> you have the opportunity to complain when XP doesn't work with new
>>> hardware and you can complain that M/S can't even update their
>>> operating systems.
>>> You are just whining.
>>
>> No you are putting words in my mouth, which I never uttered, which
>> imho borders on lying.
>>
>> The big push for Vista to me feels like forcing. and until the DRM
>> issues, among other things are resolved (yeah right...), I will not
>> be using it for a primary OS. I will NEVER use an operating system
>> that's based on limited what I can do, especially with ontent that I
>> purchase, where as pirates that downlaod the same content (sometimes
>> at better quality), do so without any such restrictions.
>>
>> Throw in the crazy WGA/activation scheme, and I don't know how one
>> could recommend this OS as a replacement for anything. Virtually
>> anything Vista can do can be done in XP and other OS's... Widgets
>> (that MS ripped off), Win Blinds, etc, have allowed you to do what
>> Vista does for at least half a decade. And from what I hear, DX 10
>> support for XP is well on the way (though not necessarly from MS.)
>>
>> As for future hardware compatiblity, it would be a bad move to drop
>> support in XP, and I don't really see that happening for a long time,
>> considering most drivers I've seen in recent hardwares I've purhased
>> also include 2000, NT4, and 98/ME drivers in addition to XP and
>> Vista x86 and x64 drivers.
>>
>> -Saran

There are several variables that go into if and how much support a
manufacturer gives to their hardware.
If the manufacturer sees no financial benefit, it is a high
probability nothing will be done.
Sometimes manufacturers are not interested in supporting older
hardware.
But sometimes the older hardware gets supported as a result of
something developed for newer hardware and the cost for them to
support the older hardware may have little or no cost.

A few suggestions:
1. Contact the manufacturer and explain your needs.
2. If they fail to meet your needs, purchase what does from a
competitor.
3. Then send a letter to the original manufacturer explaining what
you bought and why you bought from a competitor.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
news:%234bGZAXzHHA.4800@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Ian wrote:
>> I think you may be in for a shock. XP will not be supported for
>> more
>> than five years and more likely two by MS and many processors will
>> out distance lesser bistros. Printer markers will soon stop supply
>> update drivers because they make no profit from printers and rely
>> on
>> ink sales. Video cards will have to meet bigger demands and the
>> older
>> ones will not be supported and that is only half of it.
>
> Then why are some driver makers still supporting versions as far
> back as NT 4 and 9x? At the least, any device I've bought in recent
> months support as far back as 2000, so I very much doubt driver
> support will just disappear in 5 years as you say. In practice, it's
> far from the reality you paint.
>
> -saran
>
>> "Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
>> news:eK%23aveWzHHA.3772@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>>> What? You want to stay with XP for the next 20 years. I get it.
>>>> Then
>>>> you have the opportunity to complain when XP doesn't work with
>>>> new
>>>> hardware and you can complain that M/S can't even update their
>>>> operating systems.
>>>> You are just whining.
>>>
>>> No you are putting words in my mouth, which I never uttered, which
>>> imho borders on lying.
>>>
>>> The big push for Vista to me feels like forcing. and until the DRM
>>> issues, among other things are resolved (yeah right...), I will
>>> not
>>> be using it for a primary OS. I will NEVER use an operating system
>>> that's based on limited what I can do, especially with ontent that
>>> I
>>> purchase, where as pirates that downlaod the same content
>>> (sometimes
>>> at better quality), do so without any such restrictions.
>>>
>>> Throw in the crazy WGA/activation scheme, and I don't know how one
>>> could recommend this OS as a replacement for anything. Virtually
>>> anything Vista can do can be done in XP and other OS's... Widgets
>>> (that MS ripped off), Win Blinds, etc, have allowed you to do what
>>> Vista does for at least half a decade. And from what I hear, DX 10
>>> support for XP is well on the way (though not necessarly from MS.)
>>>
>>> As for future hardware compatiblity, it would be a bad move to
>>> drop
>>> support in XP, and I don't really see that happening for a long
>>> time,
>>> considering most drivers I've seen in recent hardwares I've
>>> purhased
>>> also include 2000, NT4, and 98/ME drivers in addition to XP and
>>> Vista x86 and x64 drivers.
>>>
>>> -Saran
>
>

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
> There are several variables that go into if and how much support a
> manufacturer gives to their hardware.
> If the manufacturer sees no financial benefit, it is a high
> probability nothing will be done.

Yes but XP still has many users, and will have for quite sometime,
seeing how Vista is shaping out. Many people just don't go to Vista
because of the DRM issues (being restricted), while others have other
reasons (bloat, annoyances, etc)... if manufactures were to just cut off
XP users, even if it's 5 years from now, they would likely loose more
money as the users would of bought from vendor X would go to Y who still
has XP (and probably 2000) drivers.

And lets not forget, while there are plenty of changes in Vista
internally, from what I've seen, the basic driver setup is still similar
to XP and 2000, so it would not be impossible to make a driver that
works on both platforms, as long as the hardware is physically able ot
function on XP/2000.

Either way, I wouldn't so easily count XP out.


> Sometimes manufacturers are not interested in supporting older
> hardware.
> But sometimes the older hardware gets supported as a result of
> something developed for newer hardware and the cost for them to
> support the older hardware may have little or no cost.

Ok, but I'm talking about newer hardwards I've puchased, some in the
last month.

-saran


> "Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
> news:%234bGZAXzHHA.4800@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Ian wrote:
>>> I think you may be in for a shock. XP will not be supported for
>>> more
>>> than five years and more likely two by MS and many processors will
>>> out distance lesser bistros. Printer markers will soon stop supply
>>> update drivers because they make no profit from printers and rely
>>> on
>>> ink sales. Video cards will have to meet bigger demands and the
>>> older
>>> ones will not be supported and that is only half of it.
>>
>> Then why are some driver makers still supporting versions as far
>> back as NT 4 and 9x? At the least, any device I've bought in recent
>> months support as far back as 2000, so I very much doubt driver
>> support will just disappear in 5 years as you say. In practice, it's
>> far from the reality you paint.
>>
>> -saran
>>
>>> "Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
>>> news:eK%23aveWzHHA.3772@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>>>> What? You want to stay with XP for the next 20 years. I get it.
>>>>> Then
>>>>> you have the opportunity to complain when XP doesn't work with
>>>>> new
>>>>> hardware and you can complain that M/S can't even update their
>>>>> operating systems.
>>>>> You are just whining.
>>>>
>>>> No you are putting words in my mouth, which I never uttered, which
>>>> imho borders on lying.
>>>>
>>>> The big push for Vista to me feels like forcing. and until the DRM
>>>> issues, among other things are resolved (yeah right...), I will
>>>> not
>>>> be using it for a primary OS. I will NEVER use an operating system
>>>> that's based on limited what I can do, especially with ontent that
>>>> I
>>>> purchase, where as pirates that downlaod the same content
>>>> (sometimes
>>>> at better quality), do so without any such restrictions.
>>>>
>>>> Throw in the crazy WGA/activation scheme, and I don't know how one
>>>> could recommend this OS as a replacement for anything. Virtually
>>>> anything Vista can do can be done in XP and other OS's... Widgets
>>>> (that MS ripped off), Win Blinds, etc, have allowed you to do what
>>>> Vista does for at least half a decade. And from what I hear, DX 10
>>>> support for XP is well on the way (though not necessarly from MS.)
>>>>
>>>> As for future hardware compatiblity, it would be a bad move to
>>>> drop
>>>> support in XP, and I don't really see that happening for a long
>>>> time,
>>>> considering most drivers I've seen in recent hardwares I've
>>>> purhased
>>>> also include 2000, NT4, and 98/ME drivers in addition to XP and
>>>> Vista x86 and x64 drivers.
>>>>
>>>> -Saran

Have it your way but you did not say what hard ware. I grant you that
exceptions will always be found but people normally show difficulties now
over many Video Cards, Printers and Scanners.




"Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
news:%234bGZAXzHHA.4800@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Ian wrote:
>> I think you may be in for a shock. XP will not be supported for more
>> than five years and more likely two by MS and many processors will
>> out distance lesser bistros. Printer markers will soon stop supply
>> update drivers because they make no profit from printers and rely on
>> ink sales. Video cards will have to meet bigger demands and the older
>> ones will not be supported and that is only half of it.
>
> Then why are some driver makers still supporting versions as far back as
> NT 4 and 9x? At the least, any device I've bought in recent months support
> as far back as 2000, so I very much doubt driver support will just
> disappear in 5 years as you say. In practice, it's far from the reality
> you paint.
>
> -saran
>
>> "Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
>> news:eK%23aveWzHHA.3772@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>>> What? You want to stay with XP for the next 20 years. I get it. Then
>>>> you have the opportunity to complain when XP doesn't work with new
>>>> hardware and you can complain that M/S can't even update their
>>>> operating systems.
>>>> You are just whining.
>>>
>>> No you are putting words in my mouth, which I never uttered, which
>>> imho borders on lying.
>>>
>>> The big push for Vista to me feels like forcing. and until the DRM
>>> issues, among other things are resolved (yeah right...), I will not
>>> be using it for a primary OS. I will NEVER use an operating system
>>> that's based on limited what I can do, especially with ontent that I
>>> purchase, where as pirates that downlaod the same content (sometimes
>>> at better quality), do so without any such restrictions.
>>>
>>> Throw in the crazy WGA/activation scheme, and I don't know how one
>>> could recommend this OS as a replacement for anything. Virtually
>>> anything Vista can do can be done in XP and other OS's... Widgets
>>> (that MS ripped off), Win Blinds, etc, have allowed you to do what
>>> Vista does for at least half a decade. And from what I hear, DX 10
>>> support for XP is well on the way (though not necessarly from MS.)
>>>
>>> As for future hardware compatiblity, it would be a bad move to drop
>>> support in XP, and I don't really see that happening for a long time,
>>> considering most drivers I've seen in recent hardwares I've purhased
>>> also include 2000, NT4, and 98/ME drivers in addition to XP and
>>> Vista x86 and x64 drivers.
>>>
>>> -Saran
>
>
>

Ian wrote:
> Have it your way but you did not say what hard ware. I grant you that
> exceptions will always be found but people normally show difficulties
> now over many Video Cards, Printers and Scanners.

Really? I work as a consultant, and just two weeks ago installed around
100 systems, including all the peripherals (video, etc), as well as
printers, scanners, and such. All sorts of different makes and models
through out the office, most systems on XP Pro and 2000, and not one
problem. Almost a dozen of those sytems ran Vista and nothing but
headaches.

If there any real concerns it's Vista's hardware support, not XP's.
Manufactures would have to be insane to drop support for XP and maybe
even 2000, as they'd loose a lot of customers, even a couple years down
the road.

--
SK