stop over complicating things

Hi Saran,

I'm still getting XP updates. I got one yesterday, in fact. I think MS is
contractually
forced to provide XP updates for a few years yet, in fact. Note, just bug
fixes, not
enhancements.

-- Larry Maturo

"Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
news:eRcpcwzvHHA.3508@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
>> Saran;
>> "literally trying to force everyone into using it instead of giving a
>> choice."
>> No one is being forced at all.
>> Windows XP will be probably be supported for several more years.
>> Your grouping Windows XP and Windows 2000 together can be misleading.
>
> Sorry then. But by cutting off thigns like updates for XP users IS a form
> of force, jsut not an absolute forcing (yet.)
>
>> By the time Windows XP is out of support, much new hardware and
>> software will not function with Windows XP as well.
>
> So in other words, we'll have to go to Vista, right? And this isn't a form
> of forcing?
>
>> If you are using Windows XP and it does what you need, there is no
>> reason to switch.
>
> Amen.
>
> -Saran
>

You wrote:
Well, not totally useless, but MS has removed a
ton of the functionality that Windows used to have with 2000, XP and IE6.

Do you mean functions, or the UI you liked to access the functions? If you
mean functions, what, other than the email problem you had, is missing? I'm
using Vista at home I haven't noticed anything missing yet.

-- Larry Maturo

"Larry Maturo" wrote in message

> Do you mean functions, or the UI you liked to access the functions? If
> you
> mean functions, what, other than the email problem you had, is missing?

Still trying to figure out his Window's Mail problem with "multiple
accounts"? I have five different "mail accounts" using WM under Vista.

Perhaps he meant "Identities"? I don't miss that because it's something I
never bothered with, even when using OE for e-mail accounts for three
different companies.

I'm still running Win2K Pro on my desktop, Vista on this laptop, 2003 AS on
two other boxes, and the only thing with Vista is having to dig around to
find out where they put things this time around.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Different is not always bad, it's just... well, different
1. Windows mail no longer supports different identities, TRUE, but that
doesn't mean it can't be used to manage multiple email accounts. set up
your multiple accounts in Windows Mail, then you can either sort by account,
or use the mail rules to automatically put mail from each different account
in separate folders. you might find not having to log in and out of 5
different identities just to check your mail a much more productive
solution. If that doesn't work, there are many other email programs to
choose from. some free, some not.

2. you can put your pictures anywhere you want. If you don't like the file
structure Vista defaults to, CHANGE IT. Open Windows explorer and right
click on your "Pictures" Folder. select properties, then click the location
tab. Enter anything you want (such as c:\pictures) and click move. Now
your "special Picture folder" is directly under the root drive, no
complicated file structure to worry about.

3. IE7. open IE7 and right click on the top toolbar. put a check next to
"Menu Bar" and your standard ie6 style menu bar is back. and if you haven't
got the hang of tabbed browsing yet, give it time. you will and you will
love it !


"flylake" <flylake@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:01A6500F-885F-4F02-A51A-C978F655AAC6@microsoft.com...
> OK, I'm an old fart and I've used Windows since 1983 (v1 beta). I've
> always
> been a Windows fan, until now. While there are some things I like about
> VISTA there are a ton that I just cannot stand. For example:
> 1. Outlook (now Windows mail) no longer supports multiple user accounts.
> I
> need to be able to see 5 different email accounts - 2 for work, my
> personal
> account, an account I use to be the administrator of a friend's web site,
> and
> the account I use to monitor my kid's online activity. Windows Mail
> doesn't
> support this so now I need to look for a 3rd party program to do what I
> need
> it to do. I'm not going to set up a separate user account for each email.
> What a stupid move.
> 2. Photo capture is a royal pain in the arse. It used to be real easy.
> Plug in the camera, turn it on and capture my photos. Now the new
> directory
> structure with tagging is so complex it is ridiculous. I copied 10
> pictures
> over from my camera and VISTA returned a page long directory structure
> when I
> was done. I couldn't begin to find my pictures after I closed the preveiw
> screen until I closed everything and used Explorer. And, geez, you guys
> have even ruined explorer. You've taken a lean directory searching
> machine
> and turned it into a fat slob of a program. Give us people that know how
> to
> use a directory the ability to bypass all this baloney.
> 3. IE 7 is also a pain to use. You took all the feartures of IE6 and
> stripped them off the main page, putting them in drop down menus. IE6 was
> so
> much simpler to navigate and use. Give us back menu buttons at the top of
> the screen. Having to navigate drop down menues for everything is a royal
> pain.
>
> In trying to copy the MAC OS you guys are creating such a complex file
> structure system where we are forced to use the built in directory tools,
> which are very complex, slow and add in a ton of garbage 99% of the people
> on
> this planet will never need or use. You took effective tools and reduced
> them to garbage. Your new add-ons are so cumbersome to use I'm finding for
> the first time in 10 years, I have to replace all the built in Microsoft
> applications with 3rd party software. The potential for disaster
> regarding
> future file compatibility and portability is enormous. Plus the expense
> is
> enormous. Why'd you have to go and mess everything up like that?
>
> If the functionality of Windows XP Pro and IE6 were a 9, I'd have to rate
> VISTA and IE7 a 4 or 5 at best. I hate to say it, but you guys are almost
> forcing me to switch to a MAC. If you're going to go the "point and
> click"
> route, then do it right. The new VISTA and IE7 are like a fat man. Tons
> of
> features, but all of them are slow, cumbersome and very un-clear
>
> Windows 2000 was great, XP even better, but with VISTA you've added a
> bunch
> of cool features encumbered by 1000lbs of useless fat.
>
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...ista.gen eral

1. If you would care to click on "Tools" in the upper right of IE7, and click
on "Menu Bar", you have your toolbar across the top similar to IE6.
2. I don't know what you are doing with Windows Explorer, it is easy to use,
and always has been!
3. Claiming that you are an "old fart" does not work; I am 59yo, and don't
have the whinges that you do!

"flylake" wrote:

> OK, I'm an old fart and I've used Windows since 1983 (v1 beta). I've always
> been a Windows fan, until now. While there are some things I like about
> VISTA there are a ton that I just cannot stand. For example:
> 1. Outlook (now Windows mail) no longer supports multiple user accounts. I
> need to be able to see 5 different email accounts - 2 for work, my personal
> account, an account I use to be the administrator of a friend's web site, and
> the account I use to monitor my kid's online activity. Windows Mail doesn't
> support this so now I need to look for a 3rd party program to do what I need
> it to do. I'm not going to set up a separate user account for each email.
> What a stupid move.
> 2. Photo capture is a royal pain in the arse. It used to be real easy.
> Plug in the camera, turn it on and capture my photos. Now the new directory
> structure with tagging is so complex it is ridiculous. I copied 10 pictures
> over from my camera and VISTA returned a page long directory structure when I
> was done. I couldn't begin to find my pictures after I closed the preveiw
> screen until I closed everything and used Explorer. And, geez, you guys
> have even ruined explorer. You've taken a lean directory searching machine
> and turned it into a fat slob of a program. Give us people that know how to
> use a directory the ability to bypass all this baloney.
> 3. IE 7 is also a pain to use. You took all the feartures of IE6 and
> stripped them off the main page, putting them in drop down menus. IE6 was so
> much simpler to navigate and use. Give us back menu buttons at the top of
> the screen. Having to navigate drop down menues for everything is a royal
> pain.
>
> In trying to copy the MAC OS you guys are creating such a complex file
> structure system where we are forced to use the built in directory tools,
> which are very complex, slow and add in a ton of garbage 99% of the people on
> this planet will never need or use. You took effective tools and reduced
> them to garbage. Your new add-ons are so cumbersome to use I'm finding for
> the first time in 10 years, I have to replace all the built in Microsoft
> applications with 3rd party software. The potential for disaster regarding
> future file compatibility and portability is enormous. Plus the expense is
> enormous. Why'd you have to go and mess everything up like that?
>
> If the functionality of Windows XP Pro and IE6 were a 9, I'd have to rate
> VISTA and IE7 a 4 or 5 at best. I hate to say it, but you guys are almost
> forcing me to switch to a MAC. If you're going to go the "point and click"
> route, then do it right. The new VISTA and IE7 are like a fat man. Tons of
> features, but all of them are slow, cumbersome and very un-clear
>
> Windows 2000 was great, XP even better, but with VISTA you've added a bunch
> of cool features encumbered by 1000lbs of useless fat.
>
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...ista.gen eral

"But by cutting off thigns like updates for XP users..."
And that is years away so really a non issue.
But some critics may try to make more of it than there is.

Computers or related technologies are not the only things that drop
support after a time.
Try to get replacement parts for an older appliance, automobile or
almost anything the manufacturer determines is past its support life.
They are not "forcing" you to buy a new product then either.

"So in other words, we'll have to go to Vista..."
Correct, only if and when you choose.
Have you bought anything new recently because the manufacturer does
not economically support a fix?
If so, are they forcing you to purchase new because of their lack of
support?
How old is it at that point?

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
news:eRcpcwzvHHA.3508@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
>> Saran;
>> "literally trying to force everyone into using it instead of giving
>> a
>> choice."
>> No one is being forced at all.
>> Windows XP will be probably be supported for several more years.
>> Your grouping Windows XP and Windows 2000 together can be
>> misleading.
>
> Sorry then. But by cutting off thigns like updates for XP users IS a
> form of force, jsut not an absolute forcing (yet.)
>
>> By the time Windows XP is out of support, much new hardware and
>> software will not function with Windows XP as well.
>
> So in other words, we'll have to go to Vista, right? And this isn't
> a form of forcing?
>
>> If you are using Windows XP and it does what you need, there is no
>> reason to switch.
>
> Amen.
>
> -Saran

Larry;
Updates for windows XP will be around for a while, guessing is not
really necessary:
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifeselectindex

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"Larry Maturo" <lmaturo@imceda.com> wrote in message
news:O8QhDp0vHHA.736@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hi Saran,
>
> I'm still getting XP updates. I got one yesterday, in fact. I
> think MS is contractually
> forced to provide XP updates for a few years yet, in fact. Note,
> just bug fixes, not
> enhancements.
>
> -- Larry Maturo

"...is that it is no longer supported"
Surely you do not mean that about Windows XP since it is simply not
true.
There are still years of good supported life in Windows XP.

"Plus, you can't buy a computer anymore with anything but VISTA on
it."
Incorrect and you will continue to be able to for some time.
Similar as when Windows XP was released, you can still buy computers
with the previous operating systems.
This applies to the major OEMs, local dealers and even the stand alone
copies of Windows XP available in stores just about everywhere.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
http://www.dts-l.org


"flylake" <flylake@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1F3A0114-3EFC-488F-BB7A-8BB07F45DFB1@microsoft.com...
> Saran,
>
> Good points. The only problem with going back to XP Pro (and I have
> a ton
> of unused copies here) is that it is no longer supported. If you
> stay with
> XP Pro, 2-3 years down the road you are going to find yourself in a
> major
> hurt trying to get caught up. Plus, you can't buy a computer
> anymore with
> anything but VISTA on it.
>
> That's why I thought MAC. The compatibility with Windows software
> is better
> than ever, and the OS is still vaguely UNIX based so keeping up and
> data
> compatibility shouldn't be an issue. Honestly, I am so disappointed
> in MS
> I'm going to liquidate all my stock holdings. VISTA is a huge slap
> in the
> face to anyone that just wants a clean reliable OS to work with.
> To me an
> OS is like a football field or even gas for your car. It is a tool
> that lets
> you get done what you want to get done. I don't want my gas tank
> dictating
> to me how I should drive or where I should go. It just ain't right.
>
>
> "Saran" wrote:
>
>> flylake wrote:
>> > OK, I'm an old fart and I've used Windows since 1983 (v1 beta).
>> > I've
>> > always been a Windows fan, until now. While there are some
>> > things I
>> > like about VISTA there are a ton that I just cannot stand. For
>> > example:
>>
>> Welcome to the club. You are member # 1,678,429,531
>>
>> > 1. Outlook (now Windows mail) no longer supports multiple user
>> > accounts. I need to be able to see 5 different email accounts -
>> > 2
>> > for work, my personal account, an account I use to be the
>> > administrator of a friend's web site, and the account I use to
>> > monitor my kid's online activity. Windows Mail doesn't support
>> > this
>> > so now I need to look for a 3rd party program to do what I need
>> > it to
>> > do. I'm not going to set up a separate user account for each
>> > email.
>> > What a stupid move.
>>
>> If this is true, they've completely crippled what used to be OE.
>> Another
>> great reason not to up (err, down) grade.
>>
>> > 2. Photo capture is a royal pain in the arse. It used to be
>> > real
>> > easy. Plug in the camera, turn it on and capture my photos. Now
>> > the
>> > new directory structure with tagging is so complex it is
>> > ridiculous.
>> > I copied 10 pictures over from my camera and VISTA returned a
>> > page
>> > long directory structure when I was done. I couldn't begin to
>> > find
>> > my pictures after I closed the preveiw screen until I closed
>> > everything and used Explorer.
>>
>> Why am I not suprised.
>>
>> > And, geez, you guys have even ruined explorer. You've taken
>> > a lean directory searching machine and turned
>> > it into a fat slob of a program. Give us people that know how to
>> > use
>> > a directory the ability to bypass all this baloney.
>>
>> That's one of the first things most people notice. All this extra
>> stuff
>> in Explorer and no way to turn it off. (IE, that extra side panel.)
>>
>> > 3. IE 7 is also a pain to use. You took all the feartures of
>> > IE6 and
>> > stripped them off the main page, putting them in drop down menus.
>> > IE6 was so much simpler to navigate and use. Give us back menu
>> > buttons at the top of the screen. Having to navigate drop down
>> > menues for everything is a royal pain.
>>
>> If you want ot use the IE rendering engine with a sane, very
>> configurable interface that keeps ads at bay, try out Maxthon
>> www.maxthon.com, I've used it for years and love it.
>>
>> Otherwise, www.mozilla.com and take a look at FireFox.
>>
>> > In trying to copy the MAC OS you guys are creating such a complex
>> > file
>> > structure system where we are forced to use the built in
>> > directory
>> > tools, which are very complex, slow and add in a ton of garbage
>> > 99%
>> > of the people on this planet will never need or use. You took
>> > effective tools and reduced them to garbage. Your new add-ons are
>> > so
>> > cumbersome to use I'm finding for the first time in 10 years, I
>> > have
>> > to replace all the built in Microsoft applications with 3rd party
>> > software. The potential for disaster regarding future file
>> > compatibility and portability is enormous. Plus the expense is
>> > enormous. Why'd you have to go and mess everything up like that?
>>
>> Even more reason to stick with XP (Pro) or even 2000.
>>
>> > If the functionality of Windows XP Pro and IE6 were a 9, I'd have
>> > to
>> > rate VISTA and IE7 a 4 or 5 at best.
>>
>> I'd say you were holding back
>>
>> > I hate to say it, but you guys are almost forcing me to switch
>> > to a MAC.
>>
>> Or stick with XP. Either way is better than sticking with Vista
>> IMHO.
>>
>> > If you're going to go the "point and click" route, then
>> > do it right. The new VISTA and IE7 are like a fat man.
>> > Tons of features, but all of them are slow, cumbersome
>> > and very un-clear
>>
>> It's like trying to drive an air-craft carrier through Venice...
>> what
>> results is a lot of crashing, a visual mess, and a lot of
>> headaches.
>>
>> > Windows 2000 was great, XP even better, but with VISTA you've
>> > added a
>> > bunch of cool features encumbered by 1000lbs of useless fat.
>>
>> That pretty much sums it up.
>>
>> >
>> > http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...ista.gen eral
>>
>> Gah, even the websites that are based on Vista themery are hard on
>> the
>> eyes. Have they even previewed this? Good grief.
>>
>> -Saran
>>
>>
>>

What? You want to stay with XP for the next 20 years. I get it. Then you
have the opportunity to complain when XP doesn't work with new hardware and
you can complain that M/S can't even update their operating systems.

You are just whining.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)



"Saran" <none@nospam> wrote in message
news:eRcpcwzvHHA.3508@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
>> Saran;
>> "literally trying to force everyone into using it instead of giving a
>> choice."
>> No one is being forced at all.
>> Windows XP will be probably be supported for several more years.
>> Your grouping Windows XP and Windows 2000 together can be misleading.
>
> Sorry then. But by cutting off thigns like updates for XP users IS a form
> of force, jsut not an absolute forcing (yet.)
>
>> By the time Windows XP is out of support, much new hardware and
>> software will not function with Windows XP as well.
>
> So in other words, we'll have to go to Vista, right? And this isn't a form
> of forcing?
>
>> If you are using Windows XP and it does what you need, there is no
>> reason to switch.
>
> Amen.
>
> -Saran
>

Why do you keep saying that XP isn't supported? WHO TOLD YOU THAT.

STOP spreading mis-information.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)



"flylake" <flylake@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1F3A0114-3EFC-488F-BB7A-8BB07F45DFB1@microsoft.com...
> Saran,
>
> Good points. The only problem with going back to XP Pro (and I have a ton
> of unused copies here) is that it is no longer supported. If you stay
> with
> XP Pro, 2-3 years down the road you are going to find yourself in a major
> hurt trying to get caught up. Plus, you can't buy a computer anymore with
> anything but VISTA on it.
>
> That's why I thought MAC. The compatibility with Windows software is
> better
> than ever, and the OS is still vaguely UNIX based so keeping up and data
> compatibility shouldn't be an issue. Honestly, I am so disappointed in MS
> I'm going to liquidate all my stock holdings. VISTA is a huge slap in the
> face to anyone that just wants a clean reliable OS to work with. To me
> an
> OS is like a football field or even gas for your car. It is a tool that
> lets
> you get done what you want to get done. I don't want my gas tank
> dictating
> to me how I should drive or where I should go. It just ain't right.
>
>
> "Saran" wrote:
>
>> flylake wrote:
>> > OK, I'm an old fart and I've used Windows since 1983 (v1 beta). I've
>> > always been a Windows fan, until now. While there are some things I
>> > like about VISTA there are a ton that I just cannot stand. For
>> > example:
>>
>> Welcome to the club. You are member # 1,678,429,531
>>
>> > 1. Outlook (now Windows mail) no longer supports multiple user
>> > accounts. I need to be able to see 5 different email accounts - 2
>> > for work, my personal account, an account I use to be the
>> > administrator of a friend's web site, and the account I use to
>> > monitor my kid's online activity. Windows Mail doesn't support this
>> > so now I need to look for a 3rd party program to do what I need it to
>> > do. I'm not going to set up a separate user account for each email.
>> > What a stupid move.
>>
>> If this is true, they've completely crippled what used to be OE. Another
>> great reason not to up (err, down) grade.
>>
>> > 2. Photo capture is a royal pain in the arse. It used to be real
>> > easy. Plug in the camera, turn it on and capture my photos. Now the
>> > new directory structure with tagging is so complex it is ridiculous.
>> > I copied 10 pictures over from my camera and VISTA returned a page
>> > long directory structure when I was done. I couldn't begin to find
>> > my pictures after I closed the preveiw screen until I closed
>> > everything and used Explorer.
>>
>> Why am I not suprised.
>>
>> > And, geez, you guys have even ruined explorer. You've taken
>> > a lean directory searching machine and turned
>> > it into a fat slob of a program. Give us people that know how to use
>> > a directory the ability to bypass all this baloney.
>>
>> That's one of the first things most people notice. All this extra stuff
>> in Explorer and no way to turn it off. (IE, that extra side panel.)
>>
>> > 3. IE 7 is also a pain to use. You took all the feartures of IE6 and
>> > stripped them off the main page, putting them in drop down menus.
>> > IE6 was so much simpler to navigate and use. Give us back menu
>> > buttons at the top of the screen. Having to navigate drop down
>> > menues for everything is a royal pain.
>>
>> If you want ot use the IE rendering engine with a sane, very
>> configurable interface that keeps ads at bay, try out Maxthon
>> www.maxthon.com, I've used it for years and love it.
>>
>> Otherwise, www.mozilla.com and take a look at FireFox.
>>
>> > In trying to copy the MAC OS you guys are creating such a complex file
>> > structure system where we are forced to use the built in directory
>> > tools, which are very complex, slow and add in a ton of garbage 99%
>> > of the people on this planet will never need or use. You took
>> > effective tools and reduced them to garbage. Your new add-ons are so
>> > cumbersome to use I'm finding for the first time in 10 years, I have
>> > to replace all the built in Microsoft applications with 3rd party
>> > software. The potential for disaster regarding future file
>> > compatibility and portability is enormous. Plus the expense is
>> > enormous. Why'd you have to go and mess everything up like that?
>>
>> Even more reason to stick with XP (Pro) or even 2000.
>>
>> > If the functionality of Windows XP Pro and IE6 were a 9, I'd have to
>> > rate VISTA and IE7 a 4 or 5 at best.
>>
>> I'd say you were holding back
>>
>> > I hate to say it, but you guys are almost forcing me to switch
>> > to a MAC.
>>
>> Or stick with XP. Either way is better than sticking with Vista IMHO.
>>
>> > If you're going to go the "point and click" route, then
>> > do it right. The new VISTA and IE7 are like a fat man.
>> > Tons of features, but all of them are slow, cumbersome
>> > and very un-clear
>>
>> It's like trying to drive an air-craft carrier through Venice... what
>> results is a lot of crashing, a visual mess, and a lot of headaches.
>>
>> > Windows 2000 was great, XP even better, but with VISTA you've added a
>> > bunch of cool features encumbered by 1000lbs of useless fat.
>>
>> That pretty much sums it up.
>>
>> >
>> > http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...ista.gen eral
>>
>> Gah, even the websites that are based on Vista themery are hard on the
>> eyes. Have they even previewed this? Good grief.
>>
>> -Saran
>>
>>
>>