Vista: poor error handling, confusing UI - Tell me I'm wrong

I spent Xmas week building a new PC with my son. It normally would only take
me a few hours to put together a machine, but I made the mistake of
installing Vista RC2 on it. The problems we had were not because Vista
didn't work, they were mostly because something in hardware was giving
problems. However, were Vista fell down was in its reaction to the
problems - a total lack of (meaningful) error messages. We reverted back and
forth from Windows XP in order to find the real culprit of a problem, and
ended up sticking with Windows XP simply because we lost faith in Vista's
ability to handle exceptions.

A very simple example of what I'm saying can be replicated by opening a
document, and while it is opened, try deleting it thru Windows Explorer. The
message you get is something like "You do not have permissions to perform
the requested actions", rather than "Cannot delete file while it is open".
This all ties into what I believe to be a poor useability experience offered
by Vista.

IMHO the Vista UI is cluttered and confusing. While I would give a Windows
XP machine to my aging parents and have some hope of them being able to send
an email, I cannot say the same for Vista. One example is Windows Explorer -
it's just awful. And the start menu... ugh! I don't have much hope that any
of this will improve... I mean, how could it without a total redesign? I
have to admit though that my son thought it was "cool" and was disappointed
that he ended up with XP. I guess that's what Vista is all about - the "cool
factor".

<snip>


> IMHO the Vista UI is cluttered and confusing. While I would give a Windows
> XP machine to my aging parents and have some hope of them being able to
send
> an email, I cannot say the same for Vista. One example is Windows
Explorer -
> it's just awful. And the start menu... ugh! I don't have much hope that
any
> of this will improve... I mean, how could it without a total redesign? I
> have to admit though that my son thought it was "cool" and was
disappointed
> that he ended up with XP. I guess that's what Vista is all about - the
"cool
> factor".
>
>


That's why I'm not going with Vista...
the only purpose of the operating system is simply to run applications...

If I'm using my machine for Photoshop (just as an example) all I'd want is
for Photoshop to run...
and for it to run well...If it could run on dos 6.22...that would be
fine...just as long as the app. runs.

It looks like Vista is too much emphasis on appearance

There is much more under the hood then you see behind the steering wheel.


"philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:uOGuGuMPHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> <snip>
>
>
>> IMHO the Vista UI is cluttered and confusing. While I would give a
>> Windows
>> XP machine to my aging parents and have some hope of them being able to
> send
>> an email, I cannot say the same for Vista. One example is Windows
> Explorer -
>> it's just awful. And the start menu... ugh! I don't have much hope that
> any
>> of this will improve... I mean, how could it without a total redesign? I
>> have to admit though that my son thought it was "cool" and was
> disappointed
>> that he ended up with XP. I guess that's what Vista is all about - the
> "cool
>> factor".
>>
>>
>
>
> That's why I'm not going with Vista...
> the only purpose of the operating system is simply to run applications...
>
> If I'm using my machine for Photoshop (just as an example) all I'd want is
> for Photoshop to run...
> and for it to run well...If it could run on dos 6.22...that would be
> fine...just as long as the app. runs.
>
> It looks like Vista is too much emphasis on appearance
>
>

If you never go online, it doesn't matter much what O/S you use. Just so the
programs function.

Many manufacturing operations are Win95/98 based and not about to change
anytime soon. These computers also are dedicated to a manufacturing process
and are not connected to any network what-so-ever. The system will work till
the computer physically dies.

But, if the computer is meant to go online, you had better keep up with the
latest technology, whether it be that in the O/S or additional programs you
have installed for better protection.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!



"Bob" <Bob@somewhere.usa> wrote in message
news:C0A72BA5-FF0B-47CC-BB64-61F359AB2776@microsoft.com...
> There is much more under the hood then you see behind the steering wheel.
>
>
> "philo" <philo@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:uOGuGuMPHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>> IMHO the Vista UI is cluttered and confusing. While I would give a
>>> Windows
>>> XP machine to my aging parents and have some hope of them being able to
>> send
>>> an email, I cannot say the same for Vista. One example is Windows
>> Explorer -
>>> it's just awful. And the start menu... ugh! I don't have much hope that
>> any
>>> of this will improve... I mean, how could it without a total redesign? I
>>> have to admit though that my son thought it was "cool" and was
>> disappointed
>>> that he ended up with XP. I guess that's what Vista is all about - the
>> "cool
>>> factor".
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's why I'm not going with Vista...
>> the only purpose of the operating system is simply to run applications...
>>
>> If I'm using my machine for Photoshop (just as an example) all I'd want
>> is
>> for Photoshop to run...
>> and for it to run well...If it could run on dos 6.22...that would be
>> fine...just as long as the app. runs.
>>
>> It looks like Vista is too much emphasis on appearance
>>
>>
>

..
>
> But, if the computer is meant to go online, you had better keep up with
the
> latest technology, whether it be that in the O/S or additional programs
you
> have installed for better protection.
>
>


That's a good point...as Vista does have better security...

However even older operating systems with a few utilities such as firewalls,
spyware apps and antivirus
coupled with just plain common sense are generally quite sufficient.

"Rick" wrote

>I spent Xmas week building a new PC with my son. It normally would only
>take me a few hours to put together a machine, but I made the mistake of
>installing Vista RC2 on it. The problems we had were not because Vista
>didn't work, they were mostly because something in hardware was giving
>problems. However, were Vista fell down was in its reaction to the
>problems - a total lack of (meaningful) error messages. We reverted back
>and forth from Windows XP in order to find the real culprit of a problem,
>and ended up sticking with Windows XP simply because we lost faith in
>Vista's ability to handle exceptions.
>
> A very simple example of what I'm saying can be replicated by opening a
> document, and while it is opened, try deleting it thru Windows Explorer.
> The message you get is something like "You do not have permissions to
> perform the requested actions", rather than "Cannot delete file while it
> is open". This all ties into what I believe to be a poor useability
> experience offered by Vista.
>
> IMHO the Vista UI is cluttered and confusing. While I would give a Windows
> XP machine to my aging parents and have some hope of them being able to
> send an email, I cannot say the same for Vista. One example is Windows
> Explorer - it's just awful. And the start menu... ugh! I don't have much
> hope that any of this will improve... I mean, how could it without a total
> redesign? I have to admit though that my son thought it was "cool" and was
> disappointed that he ended up with XP. I guess that's what Vista is all
> about - the "cool factor".

XP's error messages aren't always that helpful either. I like the Vista
Start menu and the search function on it is great. You just start to type
in a few letters of what you want and it pops up at the top.

You don't need Windows Explorer to send an email. Vista has Windows Mail
which similar to OE in XP. Yes you sometimes have to learn different ways
to doing things in Vista.

--
Rock [MVP - User/Shell]

The UI is different from what you are used to. Many of the exact same
complaints you have were voiced by many people when XP was released. Like XP
I find the Vista UI takes a while to learn, or perhaps I should say unlearn
the old way. I find that now that I have been using it for a couple of
months on my every day machines I am quite frustrated when going back to XP.
The same happened with the switch from the Win2k/98 UI to the XP UI, and
also from Win3.1 to 95.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
www.vistahelp.ca


"Rick" <rick@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:O5GAdjMPHHA.3668@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>I spent Xmas week building a new PC with my son. It normally would only
>take me a few hours to put together a machine, but I made the mistake of
>installing Vista RC2 on it. The problems we had were not because Vista
>didn't work, they were mostly because something in hardware was giving
>problems. However, were Vista fell down was in its reaction to the
>problems - a total lack of (meaningful) error messages. We reverted back
>and forth from Windows XP in order to find the real culprit of a problem,
>and ended up sticking with Windows XP simply because we lost faith in
>Vista's ability to handle exceptions.
>
> A very simple example of what I'm saying can be replicated by opening a
> document, and while it is opened, try deleting it thru Windows Explorer.
> The message you get is something like "You do not have permissions to
> perform the requested actions", rather than "Cannot delete file while it
> is open". This all ties into what I believe to be a poor useability
> experience offered by Vista.
>
> IMHO the Vista UI is cluttered and confusing. While I would give a Windows
> XP machine to my aging parents and have some hope of them being able to
> send an email, I cannot say the same for Vista. One example is Windows
> Explorer - it's just awful. And the start menu... ugh! I don't have much
> hope that any of this will improve... I mean, how could it without a total
> redesign? I have to admit though that my son thought it was "cool" and was
> disappointed that he ended up with XP. I guess that's what Vista is all
> about - the "cool factor".
>

You're wrong.

Well, I wish Vista well. I hope it turns out to be a great OS.

"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:e9Tb6oPPHHA.4260@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> The UI is different from what you are used to. Many of the exact same
> complaints you have were voiced by many people when XP was released. Like
> XP I find the Vista UI takes a while to learn, or perhaps I should say
> unlearn the old way. I find that now that I have been using it for a
> couple of months on my every day machines I am quite frustrated when going
> back to XP. The same happened with the switch from the Win2k/98 UI to the
> XP UI, and also from Win3.1 to 95.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
> www.vistahelp.ca
>
>
> "Rick" <rick@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:O5GAdjMPHHA.3668@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>I spent Xmas week building a new PC with my son. It normally would only
>>take me a few hours to put together a machine, but I made the mistake of
>>installing Vista RC2 on it. The problems we had were not because Vista
>>didn't work, they were mostly because something in hardware was giving
>>problems. However, were Vista fell down was in its reaction to the
>>problems - a total lack of (meaningful) error messages. We reverted back
>>and forth from Windows XP in order to find the real culprit of a problem,
>>and ended up sticking with Windows XP simply because we lost faith in
>>Vista's ability to handle exceptions.
>>
>> A very simple example of what I'm saying can be replicated by opening a
>> document, and while it is opened, try deleting it thru Windows Explorer.
>> The message you get is something like "You do not have permissions to
>> perform the requested actions", rather than "Cannot delete file while it
>> is open". This all ties into what I believe to be a poor useability
>> experience offered by Vista.
>>
>> IMHO the Vista UI is cluttered and confusing. While I would give a
>> Windows XP machine to my aging parents and have some hope of them being
>> able to send an email, I cannot say the same for Vista. One example is
>> Windows Explorer - it's just awful. And the start menu... ugh! I don't
>> have much hope that any of this will improve... I mean, how could it
>> without a total redesign? I have to admit though that my son thought it
>> was "cool" and was disappointed that he ended up with XP. I guess that's
>> what Vista is all about - the "cool factor".
>>
>

how is he wrong?

--
Jeff
"Rich" <r.d.green@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:12r61obf85s2819@news.supernews.com...
>
> You're wrong.
>