Dual Boot-clarification

I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the following
please.................

1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?
2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is installed,
if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?
3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore points
are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?
4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker) that
'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?
5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?
6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows Vista
to create it's own restore points?
7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same drive+different
partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?

There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how to
do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean that the
problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people don't
realise that they have no restore points in Vista?

I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand the
problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.

Thanks for all the help.
Morris

"morrisg" <morrisg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C5B9F317-8C91-4526-9C11-AF15EA26C04B@microsoft.com...
> I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the
> following
> please.................
>
> 1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?

yes
> 2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is
> installed,
> if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?

yes
> 3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore points
> are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?

yes
> 4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker) that
> 'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?

You must install and use Bitlocker. You can also use a third party boot
program to hide the Vista partition when booting to XP (BootITNG Acronis
has one)
> 5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?
VistaBootPro edits the Boot loader. Doesn't hide anything

> 6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows
> Vista
> to create it's own restore points?

No. Doesnt work

> 7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same drive+different
> partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?

True.
>
> There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how to
> do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean that
> the
> problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people
> don't
> realise that they have no restore points in Vista?
>
> I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand the
> problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.
>
> Thanks for all the help.
> Morris
>

"John Barnes" wrote:

>
> You must install and use Bitlocker. You can also use a third party boot
> program to hide the Vista partition when booting to XP (BootITNG Acronis
> has one)

Thanks John, just the clarity that I needed.

To follow on...............OK,there's a problem..........how to fix it?

1) Should BootITNG be installed on XP or on Vista ?
2) If installed on XP,.... bearing in mind that by running XP I'll be
deleting my Vista restore points,......will Vista write new restore points
even after XP has deleted them?......or has any 'permanent ' damage (ie until
Vista has been re-installed) been done. (I ask this because I couldn't create
a Restore point in Vista after running XP).

I need Dual boot because I help elderly people at a Computer Club in Spain
(they want to contact their families back home). One or two may have a new
Computer with Vista but most have XP. So, I need both to create screenshots
for them.

Thanks for the help
Morris

"morrisg" <morrisg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C5B9F317-8C91-4526-9C11-AF15EA26C04B@microsoft.com...
> I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the following
> please.................
>
> 1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?

Sort of. Think of System Restore as a backup program that uses
shadow copy in backing up data.

Here's a link that discusses this. For some reason I can't get the direct link to
work, so here's a google cached link.
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us
<quote>
The main difference is that System Restore in Windows Vista makes use of Shadow Copy Backup
instead of the file filter system used previously. As a result, the restore process is more
efficient and robust.
</quote>

> 2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is installed,
> if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?

Yes. Unless Vista's volume is hidden.

> 3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore points
> are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?

Yes.

> 4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker) that
> 'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?

Yes.

> 5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?

VistaBootPro helps make changes to Vista's new boot manager. It doesn't
hide Vista.

> 6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows Vista
> to create it's own restore points?

Disabling XP's System Restore will not work in protecting Vista's restore
points. The problem actually is with XP's volsnap.sys.
Do a search of this group using "volsnap.sys".

> 7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same drive+different
> partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?

Yes. If XP can see Vista, XP's volsnap.sys will see Vista's restore
points *and* all shadow copies as corrupt, and they will be deleted.

> There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how to
> do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean that the
> problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people don't
> realise that they have no restore points in Vista?

Some users who dual boot don't really care about the problem, as they have
other means of making backups. Like using Acronis TrueImage. There
are users who actually don't like using System Restore anyway. Or, they
rarely boot back to XP and don't really see it as a problem.

> I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand the
> problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.

Any user who wants more information on this can simply search this
group for "volsnap.sys" and will find plenty of discussions and answers.

> Thanks for all the help.
> Morris

Take care,

Michael

"morrisg" <morrisg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:341408D9-931D-469D-A9C6-ED0B95C62C56@microsoft.com...
>
>
> "John Barnes" wrote:
>
>>
>> You must install and use Bitlocker. You can also use a third party boot
>> program to hide the Vista partition when booting to XP (BootITNG Acronis
>> has one)
>
> Thanks John, just the clarity that I needed.
>
> To follow on...............OK,there's a problem..........how to fix it?
>
> 1) Should BootITNG be installed on XP or on Vista ?
Shouldn't make any difference as it operates pre operating system. It has
to be set to hide the Vista drive when booting to XP

> 2) If installed on XP,.... bearing in mind that by running XP I'll be
> deleting my Vista restore points,......will Vista write new restore points
> even after XP has deleted them?......or has any 'permanent ' damage (ie
> until
> Vista has been re-installed) been done. (I ask this because I couldn't
> create
> a Restore point in Vista after running XP).

There should be no permanent damage to the Vista restore process. Try
turning off and then back on to clear the restore process in Vista.
>
> I need Dual boot because I help elderly people at a Computer Club in Spain
> (they want to contact their families back home). One or two may have a new
> Computer with Vista but most have XP. So, I need both to create
> screenshots
> for them.

You might consider running XP in one of the free virtual machines. You
won't have to reboot and won't have the restore problems.
>
> Thanks for the help
> Morris
>
>

If all you need Windows XP for is to create screen shots for presentation
and training, I would suggest that you use Microsoft VirtualPC 2007 (FREE).

Install VirtualPC in your Vista installation. Then create a virtual machine
in VirtualPC and install Windows XP in that virtual machine. That way you
can run Windows XP while you are booted into Vista. It will always be there
and ready for you to call it up should you need it.

You can effectively forget about dual booting altogether.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"morrisg" <morrisg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:341408D9-931D-469D-A9C6-ED0B95C62C56@microsoft.com...
>
>
> "John Barnes" wrote:
>
>>
>> You must install and use Bitlocker. You can also use a third party boot
>> program to hide the Vista partition when booting to XP (BootITNG Acronis
>> has one)
>
> Thanks John, just the clarity that I needed.
>
> To follow on...............OK,there's a problem..........how to fix it?
>
> 1) Should BootITNG be installed on XP or on Vista ?
> 2) If installed on XP,.... bearing in mind that by running XP I'll be
> deleting my Vista restore points,......will Vista write new restore points
> even after XP has deleted them?......or has any 'permanent ' damage (ie
> until
> Vista has been re-installed) been done. (I ask this because I couldn't
> create
> a Restore point in Vista after running XP).
>
> I need Dual boot because I help elderly people at a Computer Club in Spain
> (they want to contact their families back home). One or two may have a new
> Computer with Vista but most have XP. So, I need both to create
> screenshots
> for them.
>
> Thanks for the help
> Morris
>
>

I turned off system restore the day I installed TrueImage HOME. System
Restore is not anywhere as good as TrueImage, not as reliable and not
customizable to the extent that TrueImage is.



--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"MICHAEL" <u158627_emr2@dslr.net> wrote in message
news:%23MZ6opiaHHA.4396@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
> "morrisg" <morrisg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:C5B9F317-8C91-4526-9C11-AF15EA26C04B@microsoft.com...
>> I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the
>> following
>> please.................
>>
>> 1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?
>
> Sort of. Think of System Restore as a backup program that uses
> shadow copy in backing up data.
>
> Here's a link that discusses this. For some reason I can't get the direct
> link to
> work, so here's a google cached link.
> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us
> <quote>
> The main difference is that System Restore in Windows Vista makes use of
> Shadow Copy Backup instead of the file filter system used previously. As a
> result, the restore process is more efficient and robust.
> </quote>
>
>> 2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is
>> installed,
>> if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?
>
> Yes. Unless Vista's volume is hidden.
>
>> 3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore
>> points
>> are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?
>
> Yes.
>
>> 4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker) that
>> 'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?
>
> Yes.
>
>> 5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?
>
> VistaBootPro helps make changes to Vista's new boot manager. It doesn't
> hide Vista.
>
>> 6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows
>> Vista
>> to create it's own restore points?
>
> Disabling XP's System Restore will not work in protecting Vista's restore
> points. The problem actually is with XP's volsnap.sys.
> Do a search of this group using "volsnap.sys".
>
>> 7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same drive+different
>> partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?
>
> Yes. If XP can see Vista, XP's volsnap.sys will see Vista's restore
> points *and* all shadow copies as corrupt, and they will be deleted.
>
>> There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how
>> to
>> do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean that
>> the
>> problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people
>> don't
>> realise that they have no restore points in Vista?
>
> Some users who dual boot don't really care about the problem, as they have
> other means of making backups. Like using Acronis TrueImage. There
> are users who actually don't like using System Restore anyway. Or, they
> rarely boot back to XP and don't really see it as a problem.
>
>> I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand the
>> problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.
>
> Any user who wants more information on this can simply search this
> group for "volsnap.sys" and will find plenty of discussions and answers.
>
>> Thanks for all the help.
>> Morris
>
> Take care,
>
> Michael

I haven't turned off System Restore, but I do agree about
TrueImage being more reliable. In under 30 minutes, TrueImage
can restore an image and have you marveling how simple it seems.
It is well worth the money.

I also like it better than CompletePC Backup, and since most
users will probably be using Home Premium, which does not
come with CompletePC Backup, I would highly recommend them
to make a small investment in peace-of-mind and purchase
Acronis TrueImage Home.

Having *reliable* backups can *never* be over-emphasized.


-Michael

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ubCa8ZjaHHA.4616@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I turned off system restore the day I installed TrueImage HOME. System Restore is not anywhere
>as good as TrueImage, not as reliable and not customizable to the extent that TrueImage is.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban MVP
> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "MICHAEL" <u158627_emr2@dslr.net> wrote in message
> news:%23MZ6opiaHHA.4396@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "morrisg" <morrisg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:C5B9F317-8C91-4526-9C11-AF15EA26C04B@microsoft.com...
>>> I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the following
>>> please.................
>>>
>>> 1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?
>>
>> Sort of. Think of System Restore as a backup program that uses
>> shadow copy in backing up data.
>>
>> Here's a link that discusses this. For some reason I can't get the direct link to
>> work, so here's a google cached link.
>> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us
>> <quote>
>> The main difference is that System Restore in Windows Vista makes use of Shadow Copy Backup
>> instead of the file filter system used previously. As a result, the restore process is more
>> efficient and robust.
>> </quote>
>>
>>> 2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is installed,
>>> if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?
>>
>> Yes. Unless Vista's volume is hidden.
>>
>>> 3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore points
>>> are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> 4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker) that
>>> 'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> 5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?
>>
>> VistaBootPro helps make changes to Vista's new boot manager. It doesn't
>> hide Vista.
>>
>>> 6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows Vista
>>> to create it's own restore points?
>>
>> Disabling XP's System Restore will not work in protecting Vista's restore
>> points. The problem actually is with XP's volsnap.sys.
>> Do a search of this group using "volsnap.sys".
>>
>>> 7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same drive+different
>>> partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?
>>
>> Yes. If XP can see Vista, XP's volsnap.sys will see Vista's restore
>> points *and* all shadow copies as corrupt, and they will be deleted.
>>
>>> There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how to
>>> do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean that the
>>> problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people don't
>>> realise that they have no restore points in Vista?
>>
>> Some users who dual boot don't really care about the problem, as they have
>> other means of making backups. Like using Acronis TrueImage. There
>> are users who actually don't like using System Restore anyway. Or, they
>> rarely boot back to XP and don't really see it as a problem.
>>
>>> I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand the
>>> problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.
>>
>> Any user who wants more information on this can simply search this
>> group for "volsnap.sys" and will find plenty of discussions and answers.
>>
>>> Thanks for all the help.
>>> Morris
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Michael
>

Personally I think both have their uses. Making copies of every file that I
have new stuff (mail, documents, favourites, etc) in since the last backup
is just too much trouble if all you need to do is roll back the registry to
clean it up after some failed install or uninstall.


"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ubCa8ZjaHHA.4616@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>I turned off system restore the day I installed TrueImage HOME. System
>Restore is not anywhere as good as TrueImage, not as reliable and not
>customizable to the extent that TrueImage is.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban MVP
> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "MICHAEL" <u158627_emr2@dslr.net> wrote in message
> news:%23MZ6opiaHHA.4396@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "morrisg" <morrisg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:C5B9F317-8C91-4526-9C11-AF15EA26C04B@microsoft.com...
>>> I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the
>>> following
>>> please.................
>>>
>>> 1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?
>>
>> Sort of. Think of System Restore as a backup program that uses
>> shadow copy in backing up data.
>>
>> Here's a link that discusses this. For some reason I can't get the
>> direct link to
>> work, so here's a google cached link.
>> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us
>> <quote>
>> The main difference is that System Restore in Windows Vista makes use of
>> Shadow Copy Backup instead of the file filter system used previously. As
>> a result, the restore process is more efficient and robust.
>> </quote>
>>
>>> 2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is
>>> installed,
>>> if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?
>>
>> Yes. Unless Vista's volume is hidden.
>>
>>> 3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore
>>> points
>>> are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> 4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker)
>>> that
>>> 'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> 5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide' Vista.......yes?
>>
>> VistaBootPro helps make changes to Vista's new boot manager. It doesn't
>> hide Vista.
>>
>>> 6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows
>>> Vista
>>> to create it's own restore points?
>>
>> Disabling XP's System Restore will not work in protecting Vista's restore
>> points. The problem actually is with XP's volsnap.sys.
>> Do a search of this group using "volsnap.sys".
>>
>>> 7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same
>>> drive+different
>>> partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?
>>
>> Yes. If XP can see Vista, XP's volsnap.sys will see Vista's restore
>> points *and* all shadow copies as corrupt, and they will be deleted.
>>
>>> There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how
>>> to
>>> do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean that
>>> the
>>> problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people
>>> don't
>>> realise that they have no restore points in Vista?
>>
>> Some users who dual boot don't really care about the problem, as they
>> have
>> other means of making backups. Like using Acronis TrueImage. There
>> are users who actually don't like using System Restore anyway. Or, they
>> rarely boot back to XP and don't really see it as a problem.
>>
>>> I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand the
>>> problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.
>>
>> Any user who wants more information on this can simply search this
>> group for "volsnap.sys" and will find plenty of discussions and answers.
>>
>>> Thanks for all the help.
>>> Morris
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Michael
>

It only takes me 8 minutes, including the reboot, so......................
(-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:emVFN9jaHHA.2076@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Personally I think both have their uses. Making copies of every file that
> I have new stuff (mail, documents, favourites, etc) in since the last
> backup is just too much trouble if all you need to do is roll back the
> registry to clean it up after some failed install or uninstall.
>
>
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ubCa8ZjaHHA.4616@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>I turned off system restore the day I installed TrueImage HOME. System
>>Restore is not anywhere as good as TrueImage, not as reliable and not
>>customizable to the extent that TrueImage is.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard Urban MVP
>> Microsoft Windows Shell/User
>>
>>
>> "MICHAEL" <u158627_emr2@dslr.net> wrote in message
>> news:%23MZ6opiaHHA.4396@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>> "morrisg" <morrisg@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:C5B9F317-8C91-4526-9C11-AF15EA26C04B@microsoft.com...
>>>> I'm confused, I'm sure others may be, so could someone answer the
>>>> following
>>>> please.................
>>>>
>>>> 1) System restore, shadow copy and roll back are all the same....yes?
>>>
>>> Sort of. Think of System Restore as a backup program that uses
>>> shadow copy in backing up data.
>>>
>>> Here's a link that discusses this. For some reason I can't get the
>>> direct link to
>>> work, so here's a google cached link.
>>> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us
>>> <quote>
>>> The main difference is that System Restore in Windows Vista makes use of
>>> Shadow Copy Backup instead of the file filter system used previously. As
>>> a result, the restore process is more efficient and robust.
>>> </quote>
>>>
>>>> 2) No matter which version nor which method is used when Vista is
>>>> installed,
>>>> if you run XP it will delete Vista's restore points...yes?
>>>
>>> Yes. Unless Vista's volume is hidden.
>>>
>>>> 3) The problem is that XP can 'see' Vista and presumes it's restore
>>>> points
>>>> are corrupt and deletes them.....yes?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> 4) Vista Enterprise and Ultimate have an additional item (Bitlocker)
>>>> that
>>>> 'hides' Vista from XP and so avoids the problem....yes?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> 5) VistaBootPro handles dual booting but DOESN'T 'hide'
>>>> Vista.......yes?
>>>
>>> VistaBootPro helps make changes to Vista's new boot manager. It doesn't
>>> hide Vista.
>>>
>>>> 6) Is it possible to 'disable' System Restore in XP which then allows
>>>> Vista
>>>> to create it's own restore points?
>>>
>>> Disabling XP's System Restore will not work in protecting Vista's
>>> restore
>>> points. The problem actually is with XP's volsnap.sys.
>>> Do a search of this group using "volsnap.sys".
>>>
>>>> 7) It's irrelevant whether Vista is installed on the same
>>>> drive+different
>>>> partition OR on a different disk drive....the problem is still there?
>>>
>>> Yes. If XP can see Vista, XP's volsnap.sys will see Vista's restore
>>> points *and* all shadow copies as corrupt, and they will be deleted.
>>>
>>>> There are lots of threads here relating to dual booting, explaining how
>>>> to
>>>> do it, but no mention of the restore points problem. Does that mean
>>>> that the
>>>> problem doesn't arise under certain circumstances OR that these people
>>>> don't
>>>> realise that they have no restore points in Vista?
>>>
>>> Some users who dual boot don't really care about the problem, as they
>>> have
>>> other means of making backups. Like using Acronis TrueImage. There
>>> are users who actually don't like using System Restore anyway. Or, they
>>> rarely boot back to XP and don't really see it as a problem.
>>>
>>>> I'm sure that clear answers to the above would help us to understand
>>>> the
>>>> problem better and avoid numerous repeat threads.
>>>
>>> Any user who wants more information on this can simply search this
>>> group for "volsnap.sys" and will find plenty of discussions and answers.
>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the help.
>>>> Morris
>>>
>>> Take care,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>
>