Restore Disks for Vista

Hello All,

I'm currently running RC1 with a few issues but none large enough to
mention. Installed RC1 over XP sp2 . My Question is how will I be able to
make restore disks when I upgrade to ultimate in Jan 07?

When I purchased the PC I was given the option to create back up disks of
the OS and installed software which I did there were around 10 disks that I
made. Also HP cut a slice ( portioned 7.5 gigs for recovery of Win XP) So
when start vista it brings up a the Boot screen asking whether I want to
boot to vista or xp?! How will this effect the final install in Jan?


TIA

Caesar

Hi,

First off, that program to create recovery disks was specific to HP and
their provisions for recovering the system from a total failure. HP also
provides for the small recovery partition for when the failure is not
hardware related, normally you would boot and choose it from a special
recovery menu (check your user manual). It would have naught to do with
Vista or its installation, and the system's boot record (mbr) no longer
points to it, it points to Vista's bootloader now. When you upgrade the
existing RC1 install to Vista, it should simply overwrite that installation.
If you are currently dual booting, that too should be preserved.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"Sweet Home Alabama" <cruzzin@home.com> wrote in message
news:13698B53-F9AC-488A-A483-0544AB419F7D@microsoft.com...
> Hello All,
>
> I'm currently running RC1 with a few issues but none large enough to
> mention. Installed RC1 over XP sp2 . My Question is how will I be able to
> make restore disks when I upgrade to ultimate in Jan 07?
>
> When I purchased the PC I was given the option to create back up disks of
> the OS and installed software which I did there were around 10 disks that
> I made. Also HP cut a slice ( portioned 7.5 gigs for recovery of Win XP)
> So when start vista it brings up a the Boot screen asking whether I want
> to boot to vista or xp?! How will this effect the final install in Jan?
>
>
> TIA
>
> Caesar

And, the $150 or so question is: If you erased the recovery partition
during Vista beta testing (I did -- why waste 8 GB?) and re-partitioned,
re-formatted, etc., will you still qualify for the "upgrade"? Yes, if you
made the recovery disks? No, if you didn't?

Not a biggie. You can order the recovery disks from HP for a nominal fee.
I *guess* you then have to blow away your Vista installation, "recover"
whatever version of XP you had, and THEN "upgrade" to Vista. If that's
right, sheesh!

To protect myself, I made a Norton Ghost image of XP (MCE, in my case)before
I ever installed Vista, and then put that USB drive and the Norton Ghost
boot disk in my supposedly fireproof safe. Yes, I also made the recovery
disks the day I bought this computer.

I did mention somewhere something about being an anal compulsive
backer-upper, didn't I? :-}

"Rick Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u7pqo9WIHHA.1064@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> First off, that program to create recovery disks was specific to HP and
> their provisions for recovering the system from a total failure. HP also
> provides for the small recovery partition for when the failure is not
> hardware related, normally you would boot and choose it from a special
> recovery menu (check your user manual). It would have naught to do with
> Vista or its installation, and the system's boot record (mbr) no longer
> points to it, it points to Vista's bootloader now. When you upgrade the
> existing RC1 install to Vista, it should simply overwrite that
> installation. If you are currently dual booting, that too should be
> preserved.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
> "Sweet Home Alabama" <cruzzin@home.com> wrote in message
> news:13698B53-F9AC-488A-A483-0544AB419F7D@microsoft.com...
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I'm currently running RC1 with a few issues but none large enough to
>> mention. Installed RC1 over XP sp2 . My Question is how will I be able to
>> make restore disks when I upgrade to ultimate in Jan 07?
>>
>> When I purchased the PC I was given the option to create back up disks
>> of the OS and installed software which I did there were around 10 disks
>> that I made. Also HP cut a slice ( portioned 7.5 gigs for recovery of
>> Win XP) So when start vista it brings up a the Boot screen asking whether
>> I want to boot to vista or xp?! How will this effect the final install in
>> Jan?
>>
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Caesar
>

But will an upgrade version allow for an upgrade of RC1. Last word I saw
was that it had to be run from within the qualifying OS (not a beta, but
XP). If that holds, it will require the full version to upgrade from RC1 to
Gold.

"Rick Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u7pqo9WIHHA.1064@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> First off, that program to create recovery disks was specific to HP and
> their provisions for recovering the system from a total failure. HP also
> provides for the small recovery partition for when the failure is not
> hardware related, normally you would boot and choose it from a special
> recovery menu (check your user manual). It would have naught to do with
> Vista or its installation, and the system's boot record (mbr) no longer
> points to it, it points to Vista's bootloader now. When you upgrade the
> existing RC1 install to Vista, it should simply overwrite that
> installation. If you are currently dual booting, that too should be
> preserved.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
> "Sweet Home Alabama" <cruzzin@home.com> wrote in message
> news:13698B53-F9AC-488A-A483-0544AB419F7D@microsoft.com...
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I'm currently running RC1 with a few issues but none large enough to
>> mention. Installed RC1 over XP sp2 . My Question is how will I be able to
>> make restore disks when I upgrade to ultimate in Jan 07?
>>
>> When I purchased the PC I was given the option to create back up disks
>> of the OS and installed software which I did there were around 10 disks
>> that I made. Also HP cut a slice ( portioned 7.5 gigs for recovery of
>> Win XP) So when start vista it brings up a the Boot screen asking whether
>> I want to boot to vista or xp?! How will this effect the final install in
>> Jan?
>>
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Caesar
>

There's been no change that I know of. To install over RC1 will require a
full version. I was referring to upgrading only in the sense of preserving
the existing system settings and user accounts, not to the type of disk that
should be used.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:e0iAOIYIHHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> But will an upgrade version allow for an upgrade of RC1. Last word I saw
> was that it had to be run from within the qualifying OS (not a beta, but
> XP). If that holds, it will require the full version to upgrade from RC1
> to Gold.
>
> "Rick Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:u7pqo9WIHHA.1064@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> First off, that program to create recovery disks was specific to HP and
>> their provisions for recovering the system from a total failure. HP also
>> provides for the small recovery partition for when the failure is not
>> hardware related, normally you would boot and choose it from a special
>> recovery menu (check your user manual). It would have naught to do with
>> Vista or its installation, and the system's boot record (mbr) no longer
>> points to it, it points to Vista's bootloader now. When you upgrade the
>> existing RC1 install to Vista, it should simply overwrite that
>> installation. If you are currently dual booting, that too should be
>> preserved.
>>
>> --
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>>
>> "Sweet Home Alabama" <cruzzin@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:13698B53-F9AC-488A-A483-0544AB419F7D@microsoft.com...
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I'm currently running RC1 with a few issues but none large enough to
>>> mention. Installed RC1 over XP sp2 . My Question is how will I be able
>>> to make restore disks when I upgrade to ultimate in Jan 07?
>>>
>>> When I purchased the PC I was given the option to create back up disks
>>> of the OS and installed software which I did there were around 10 disks
>>> that I made. Also HP cut a slice ( portioned 7.5 gigs for recovery of
>>> Win XP) So when start vista it brings up a the Boot screen asking
>>> whether I want to boot to vista or xp?! How will this effect the final
>>> install in Jan?
>>>
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> Caesar
>>
>

A full edition can be used to upgrade from RC to final but an Upgrade
edition cannot. This is because a full edition does not rely on the user
already owning a legacy Windows license. When you use the upgrade
capability of a full edition you are upgrading the bits but using a brand
new full license. When you use the upgrade capability of an Upgrade edition
you are upgrading both the bits and the legacy Windows license (to Vista).
The difference here is in the editions of Vista used.

"John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
news:e0iAOIYIHHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> But will an upgrade version allow for an upgrade of RC1. Last word I saw
> was that it had to be run from within the qualifying OS (not a beta, but
> XP). If that holds, it will require the full version to upgrade from RC1
> to Gold.
>

Colin -- I hadn't been following this thread too closely, so if this is
redundant, I apologize in advance.

Why the heck couldn't MS allow a CPP tester with a valid XP CD/DVD to, at
the appropriate moment, insert the XP disk and type in their XP key, all
while using an "upgrade" DVD of Vista, the license for which is cheaper? In
short, doesn't this punish the CPP folk?

Hardly seems fair.



"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:O5LAsiYIHHA.3268@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>A full edition can be used to upgrade from RC to final but an Upgrade
>edition cannot. This is because a full edition does not rely on the user
>already owning a legacy Windows license. When you use the upgrade
>capability of a full edition you are upgrading the bits but using a brand
>new full license. When you use the upgrade capability of an Upgrade
>edition you are upgrading both the bits and the legacy Windows license (to
>Vista). The difference here is in the editions of Vista used.
>
> "John Barnes" <jbarnes@email.net> wrote in message
> news:e0iAOIYIHHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> But will an upgrade version allow for an upgrade of RC1. Last word I saw
>> was that it had to be run from within the qualifying OS (not a beta, but
>> XP). If that holds, it will require the full version to upgrade from RC1
>> to Gold.
>>
>

Because inserting an XP cd and entering a pk does not validate the genuiness
of Windows anymore. That is done by WGA on a running system after
activation. The genuiness of Windows is not in the media or the pk. Since
XP would have to be running on the computer to use an Upgrade edition on it,
that would mean that the fact that RC might also be installed is irrelevant.
If the Vista Upgrade edition installer accepted shiny media then what you
are asking might work. Unfortunately, it does not. If you boot with the
dvd and enter the Upgrade edition product key, Setup will instruct you to
reboot the computer and run Setup from the desktop.

A Vista full edition can upgrade Vista RC to Vista final using its
upgrade-in-place functionality because no legacy license is required. A
full edition license stands on its own.

An Upgrade Edition cannot upgrade Vista RC to Vista final because a legacy
license is required and Vista RC does not have a qualifying license.

Since a person does not have to pay for Vista RC you can hardly expect MS to
give credit against the cost of an Upgrade edition.
..
"Robert Blacher" <rblacher@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:3846D2AC-54C2-4853-89FC-EC1D6EDF6234@microsoft.com...
> Colin -- I hadn't been following this thread too closely, so if this is
> redundant, I apologize in advance.
>
> Why the heck couldn't MS allow a CPP tester with a valid XP CD/DVD to, at
> the appropriate moment, insert the XP disk and type in their XP key, all
> while using an "upgrade" DVD of Vista, the license for which is cheaper?
> In short, doesn't this punish the CPP folk?
>
> Hardly seems fair.
>

Everything you say makes sense given the current state of MS XP WGA.

But, net result: A fully-licensed GENUINE XP user who installed the CPP is
now forced to re-install XP just for the purpose of saving $150 or so
(depending on version of Vista) so they can buy the upgrade edition, not the
full version.

Somebody smarter than me at MS *should* have been able to figure out a way
around this without opening the door to allowing XP pirates to use the
upgrade version.

How do you explain that to CPP folks who *finally* have Vista working pretty
well and now are going to have to start from scratch. I think there were 5
million CPP downloads (don't ask me where I got that figure -- it's in my
head but I forget its source so ignore it :-) ).

On one point, I think you misunderstood me. You typed back:

>Since a person does not have to pay for Vista RC you can hardly expect MS
>to give credit against the cost of an Upgrade edition.

No, of course not. It's just licensed XP users who, in good faith, albeit
with some vague warnings about this issue,
blew away their XP setup to install the Vista CPP shouldn't be *punished*
for doing so by going through the insane hoop of reinstalling a probably
very out of date XP CD/DVD before upgrading. Which assumes they have the
ability to re-install XP (see other msgs about folks who didn't make
recovery disks and can't get to their recovery partitions anymore).

Ah well, nevermind -- yet another PR/marketing problem for MS. I just
wanted to be sure I truly understood the situation.






"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:OX3iSXZIHHA.1816@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Because inserting an XP cd and entering a pk does not validate the
> genuiness of Windows anymore. That is done by WGA on a running system
> after activation. The genuiness of Windows is not in the media or the pk.
> Since XP would have to be running on the computer to use an Upgrade
> edition on it, that would mean that the fact that RC might also be
> installed is irrelevant. If the Vista Upgrade edition installer accepted
> shiny media then what you are asking might work. Unfortunately, it does
> not. If you boot with the dvd and enter the Upgrade edition product key,
> Setup will instruct you to reboot the computer and run Setup from the
> desktop.
>
> A Vista full edition can upgrade Vista RC to Vista final using its
> upgrade-in-place functionality because no legacy license is required. A
> full edition license stands on its own.
>
> An Upgrade Edition cannot upgrade Vista RC to Vista final because a legacy
> license is required and Vista RC does not have a qualifying license.
>
> Since a person does not have to pay for Vista RC you can hardly expect MS
> to give credit against the cost of an Upgrade edition.
> .
> "Robert Blacher" <rblacher@community.nospam> wrote in message
> news:3846D2AC-54C2-4853-89FC-EC1D6EDF6234@microsoft.com...
>> Colin -- I hadn't been following this thread too closely, so if this is
>> redundant, I apologize in advance.
>>
>> Why the heck couldn't MS allow a CPP tester with a valid XP CD/DVD to, at
>> the appropriate moment, insert the XP disk and type in their XP key, all
>> while using an "upgrade" DVD of Vista, the license for which is cheaper?
>> In short, doesn't this punish the CPP folk?
>>
>> Hardly seems fair.
>>
>

When the CPP began MS put on the Get Ready/Customer Preview Program page a
red-letter, bold paragraph that instructed participants that since the
pre-release software would expire on June 30, 2007, participants would have
to reinstall XP or purchase Vista final in 2007 and do a clean installation
of Windows.

The instructions also told participants "do not install the software on a
production or primay home computer." It follows that if participants
followed the intructions and did not install on such a computer there would
be no pre-release Vista on any production or primary home computer now to
upgrade. That lots of folks blew past that and did it anyway is irrelevant.

There never was "vagueness" about the warnings. Not when presented in
red-lettered, bold print. Any vagueness is due to folks just plain
disregarding what was said. That's volitional.

That same page also defined what MS meant by "customers" in the name of the
program and what skills participants should have in order to successfully
participate. Among these were making backups and experience in installing
operating systems.

MS recognized that there were participants who did this in spite of warnings
and wanted a way to retain their configurations when the final came out and,
although MS never promised it would work out, in the end uprading-in-place
from RC to final did work for many.

But even where an upgrade-in-place from RC to final was feasible, MS never
said anything about an UPGRADE EDITION being able to do it. In point of
fact, it takes the upgrade functionality of a full edition to do it.

(There were 2 million CPP registrations for downloads of build 5384 when it
was cut off.)

"Robert Blacher" <rblacher@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:789CF448-A48A-4810-90B3-E002A2BEA0EA@microsoft.com...
> Everything you say makes sense given the current state of MS XP WGA.
>
> But, net result: A fully-licensed GENUINE XP user who installed the CPP
> is now forced to re-install XP just for the purpose of saving $150 or so
> (depending on version of Vista) so they can buy the upgrade edition, not
> the full version.
>
> Somebody smarter than me at MS *should* have been able to figure out a way
> around this without opening the door to allowing XP pirates to use the
> upgrade version.
>
> How do you explain that to CPP folks who *finally* have Vista working
> pretty well and now are going to have to start from scratch. I think
> there were 5 million CPP downloads (don't ask me where I got that
> figure -- it's in my head but I forget its source so ignore it :-) ).
>
> On one point, I think you misunderstood me. You typed back:
>
>>Since a person does not have to pay for Vista RC you can hardly expect MS
>>to give credit against the cost of an Upgrade edition.
>
> No, of course not. It's just licensed XP users who, in good faith, albeit
> with some vague warnings about this issue,
> blew away their XP setup to install the Vista CPP shouldn't be *punished*
> for doing so by going through the insane hoop of reinstalling a probably
> very out of date XP CD/DVD before upgrading. Which assumes they have the
> ability to re-install XP (see other msgs about folks who didn't make
> recovery disks and can't get to their recovery partitions anymore).
>
> Ah well, nevermind -- yet another PR/marketing problem for MS. I just
> wanted to be sure I truly understood the situation.
>
>