Windows Vista is slowing the Navy down ??

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
news:XxDXj.275248$pM4.113716@pd7urf1no...


> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
> British sell gas by the litre.
>

Well we did invent the imperial *and* metric systems.

Canuck57 wrote:
> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
>>>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
>>>>> trivial?
>>>> Not at all.
>>>>
>>>> The thing fscked up.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>>> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
>>> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
>>> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
>> One team was using English the other metric.
>>
>> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
>> Englsih vs MKS.
>>
>>> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so
>>> I
>>> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
>>> automotive industry use English standard units?!
>> The problem is thinking and converting.
>>
>> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
>> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
>> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>>
>> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.
>
> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
> British sell gas by the litre.
>
>

I was fortunate because before high school I learned the British system
(240 pennies in the GBP etc, yards feet and inches) but when I got to
high school they switched to Metric, so using both comes naturally to me.

In the 80s I worked for a US corporation and though we made all kinds of
fasteners (Nuts and bolts) and sold huge quantities of Metric ones all
over Europe the drawing office had to submit things to the US corporate
who insisted on all measurements being in "English" units. There is some
logic to this, high precision gauges are often very costly, so to draw
and measure in the one standard avoids a lot of expense.

So I guess I have stayed in practice with both.

"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:g0m270$h4o$1@news.datemas.de...
>
>
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
> news:KooXj.143874$Cj7.67171@pd7urf2no...
>
>
>> I remember reading that at the time it happened. I would have thought
>> the navy would have used something much more stable for critical
>> operations. Also more secure, like OpenBSD or something. Also cluster
>> them for fail over.
>
> Clustering doesn't help with application software faults.
> Its a common mistake people make, like thinking RAID is a substitute for
> backups.
>
>
>> Using NT was stupid, could have been real bad if they failed in an active
>> combat war zone at sea.
>
> Any application software failing during combat could be a problem.
> That is why they like mature software on military systems.

But this is my point. But maybe not clear.

Why use a complex, hard to review and less stable OS than say pSOS or
vxWorks or even a skinny down version of RTOS like Linux? Why use a complex
high maintenance insecure OS like NT? Seems kind of stupid as simplicity
also has value in reliably, real time response and maintenance. If for
nothing else, less to go wrong.

The need and use of hard drives also bothers me. Get a minor hit vibrating
through the hull and the heads crash...

Agree with clustering, that is primarily for hardware faults. But it would
be nice to know a war ship with nukes has more than one frail way of command
and control.

Hey Scotty, come up and replace this NT DLL or hard drive so we can launch
these damn things...whew...scary thought with a SU 30 or SU 47 coming at
you.

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
news:rAEXj.145638$rd2.122813@pd7urf3no...


>> Any application software failing during combat could be a problem.
>> That is why they like mature software on military systems.
>
> But this is my point. But maybe not clear.
>
> Why use a complex, hard to review and less stable OS than say pSOS or
> vxWorks or even a skinny down version of RTOS like Linux? Why use a
> complex high maintenance insecure OS like NT?

You have a point, I suspect that they use it because it isn't any of those
things.

> Seems kind of stupid as simplicity also has value in reliably, real time
> response and maintenance.

It does, probably the reason they don't like big monolithic kernels much.

> If for nothing else, less to go wrong.

True, but if you are doing a tactical display you would have to add so much
code to pSOS/vxWorks that you would introduce more bugs than there are in an
OS that has been in use (and tested) by millions for several years.

>
> The need and use of hard drives also bothers me. Get a minor hit
> vibrating through the hull and the heads crash...

Shock protection, they are used in far worse places than a war ship.
They used to have HD in cruise missiles incase you didn't know (probably
still do in some).

>
> Agree with clustering, that is primarily for hardware faults. But it
> would be nice to know a war ship with nukes has more than one frail way of
> command and control.

It has, but that would be classified.

>
> Hey Scotty, come up and replace this NT DLL or hard drive so we can launch
> these damn things...whew...scary thought with a SU 30 or SU 47 coming at
> you.
>
>
>

"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:g0n0pr$rpf$2@registered.motzarella.org...
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> trivial?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing fscked up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>>>>
>>>> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
>>>> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
>>>> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>>>
>>> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
>>> One team was using English the other metric.
>>>
>>> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
>>> Englsih vs MKS.
>>>
>>>> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric
>>>> so
>>>> I
>>>> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
>>>> automotive industry use English standard units?!
>>>
>>> The problem is thinking and converting.
>>>
>>> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
>>> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
>>> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>>>
>>> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.
>>
>> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
>> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
>> British sell gas by the litre.
>
> Is there some subtle joke in this ludicrous statement?

Oops, no. Should read...

.....but is not the US the last market on earth using imperial measurement?

Canuck57 wrote:
>
> Hey Scotty, come up and replace this NT DLL or hard drive so we can launch
> these damn things...whew...scary thought with a SU 30 or SU 47 coming at
> you.
>
>
>

You really are an idiot. You have no business discussing anything technical.

You'll be wise to limit your technical expertise to how to turn on the
fryer to fry tacos at Taco Bell.

"????What" <What?@Wha???t.com> wrote in message
news:%2360n7lFuIHA.3804@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Canuck57 wrote:
>>
>> Hey Scotty, come up and replace this NT DLL or hard drive so we can
>> launch these damn things...whew...scary thought with a SU 30 or SU 47
>> coming at you.
>>
>
> You really are an idiot. You have no business discussing anything
> technical.
>
> You'll be wise to limit your technical expertise to how to turn on the
> fryer to fry tacos at Taco Bell.

Now why would I want to do that? So I could get a job as a Microsoft
administrator?

Hadron wrote:
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
>> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
>> British sell gas by the litre.
>
> Is there some subtle joke in this ludicrous statement?

Not really. its true.

Well we sell PETROL by the litre, Gas is sold by the cu ft I believe.

dennis@home wrote:
>
>
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
> news:XxDXj.275248$pM4.113716@pd7urf1no...
>
>
>> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure
>> of this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric?
>> Even the British sell gas by the litre.
>>
>
> Well we did invent the imperial *and* metric systems.

French invented the metric system AFAICR.

Imperial was developed in Europe..hard to say that England was where it
really started.

The 'Mile' is a thousand paces..standardised Roman paces..

The 'yard' is how for you can pull a bowstring, or a bolt of cloth with
one hand to the body and the other extended..
etc..

The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> writes:

> Hadron wrote:
>> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:
>>
>>> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100%
>>> sure of this, but is not the US the last market on earth using
>>> metric? Even the British sell gas by the litre.
>>
>> Is there some subtle joke in this ludicrous statement?
>
> Not really. its true.

Actually, no, really, it is not.

> Well we sell PETROL by the litre, Gas is sold by the cu ft I believe.

So?

--
* SynrG notes that the number of configuration questions to answer in sendmail
is NON-TRIVIAL
-- Seen on #Debian