History and Where are we Now?

> snipe........... Enter Windows Vista
> Aero interface and that's about it. In it's current form I do not
> perceive UAC as a benefit. Initially I thought Vista would secure my
> system and negate the need for 3rd party AV/AS products which would be a
> great step forward, that promise was conveniently dropped by release
> time. Much of what's good in XP has gone or is broken so can somebody
> (preferably a power user or admin)who thinks Vista is a good upgrade
> please list out it's benefits which I could use to convince my clients
> to move from XP?
>
>

I'm not familiar with Win 1.0 and Win 2.0 but have worked the rest plus a
few competitors products - so I've been around a little bit too.

I really don't think anyone can convince you except someone that is well
versed in the code and the features, such as security, that you would be
recommending to your clients. If Vista is truly a more secure system than
that is a -big- plus for the client but I can't prove that it is - I have to
take Microsoft's word or wait for some independent lab to test and prove it
is. There are independent labs testing those claims.

UAC does get in the way but in a business environment, once the systems are
setup, I doubt it will really be a hassle for the end-user. For
maintainers - yes it's a bit of a headache for now but I think MS will get
enough complaints about it that SP-1 will address it.

As for is Vista a good upgrade? Depends on where you stand. If you sell
hardware to your clients - hell yes, it's an excellent upgrade. Would I
recommend it right now to some clients - no. I want proof that the security
claims are valid - then I can sit down with my clients and explain why they
should upgrade (security issues) and I can justify the hardware upgrades
(speed) that Vista needs.

My testing has shown Vista to be stable on "my hardware". Driver issues -
well we've always had those and the equipment manufacturers make money
selling new hardware - not updated drivers. Software houses will also be
making new releases to take advantage of upgrade fever and getting their
slice of the pie. Life goes on and Vista will do it's part to help drive a
big segment of the economy.

My approach for now is to run Vista in a test environment and learn from it
so when the time comes to tell clients - its time to upgrade, I can do it
for them without any major hassles and be confident I won't kill their
work-flow for a week. Granted, I have a small client base and the impact on
me would be far less than someone trying to upgrade a hundred or more
systems.

But as always, your client's expect -you- to be the expert and provide the
best advice you can. You need to do whatever it takes to educate yourself on
the benefits of any product upgrade (hardware/software) that you're
recommending to your clients. Love it or hate it, Vista is here to stay and
if you make your living providing computer services, then you have a few
challenges ahead - again......

Bob S.

BobS wrote:
>> snipe........... Enter Windows Vista
>> Aero interface and that's about it. In it's current form I do not
>> perceive UAC as a benefit. Initially I thought Vista would secure my
>> system and negate the need for 3rd party AV/AS products which would be a
>> great step forward, that promise was conveniently dropped by release
>> time. Much of what's good in XP has gone or is broken so can somebody
>> (preferably a power user or admin)who thinks Vista is a good upgrade
>> please list out it's benefits which I could use to convince my clients
>> to move from XP?
>>
>>
>
> I'm not familiar with Win 1.0 and Win 2.0 but have worked the rest plus a
> few competitors products - so I've been around a little bit too.
>
> I really don't think anyone can convince you except someone that is well
> versed in the code and the features, such as security, that you would be
> recommending to your clients. If Vista is truly a more secure system than
> that is a -big- plus for the client but I can't prove that it is - I have to
> take Microsoft's word or wait for some independent lab to test and prove it
> is. There are independent labs testing those claims.
>
> UAC does get in the way but in a business environment, once the systems are
> setup, I doubt it will really be a hassle for the end-user. For
> maintainers - yes it's a bit of a headache for now but I think MS will get
> enough complaints about it that SP-1 will address it.
>
> As for is Vista a good upgrade? Depends on where you stand. If you sell
> hardware to your clients - hell yes, it's an excellent upgrade. Would I
> recommend it right now to some clients - no. I want proof that the security
> claims are valid - then I can sit down with my clients and explain why they
> should upgrade (security issues) and I can justify the hardware upgrades
> (speed) that Vista needs.
>
> My testing has shown Vista to be stable on "my hardware". Driver issues -
> well we've always had those and the equipment manufacturers make money
> selling new hardware - not updated drivers. Software houses will also be
> making new releases to take advantage of upgrade fever and getting their
> slice of the pie. Life goes on and Vista will do it's part to help drive a
> big segment of the economy.
>
> My approach for now is to run Vista in a test environment and learn from it
> so when the time comes to tell clients - its time to upgrade, I can do it
> for them without any major hassles and be confident I won't kill their
> work-flow for a week. Granted, I have a small client base and the impact on
> me would be far less than someone trying to upgrade a hundred or more
> systems.
>
> But as always, your client's expect -you- to be the expert and provide the
> best advice you can. You need to do whatever it takes to educate yourself on
> the benefits of any product upgrade (hardware/software) that you're
> recommending to your clients. Love it or hate it, Vista is here to stay and
> if you make your living providing computer services, then you have a few
> challenges ahead - again......
>
> Bob S.
>
>
Bob,

Thanks for the useful well considered reply and I couldn't agree more
with your approach to this release. I too am using this pre Service
Pack stage as an opportunity to learn admin and support of Vista as
inevitably Vista will become the defacto PC OS.

Jimmy Brush wrote:
> Hello,
>
> There are many features that Vista exposes at a technical level that
> make a compelling case for upgrade, depending on the person's needs.
>
> Just a few technical examples:
>
> Updated networking: Much more efficient network stack, especially when
> coupled with other Vista (and eventually Longhorn Server) machines.
> Compared to XP, uses your available bandwith much better (maintains
> throughput), especially in high latency scenarios (i.e. satellite linkage).
>
> New way of putting pixels on the screen: It may seem like just eyecandy,
> but this will enhance the performance of current multimedia apps and
> feed the next generation of multimedia applications, both games and more
> traditional apps. Features that are unavailable in XP, such as the
> desktop composition engine, and specifically allowing video memory to be
> virtualized/swapped and forcing the video driver to properly implement
> scheduling, really unleash the power (and ability to multitask) these apps.
>
> Advanced printing and display: Vista supports high-DPI and high-contrast
> monitors and printers. This may not be a "big deal" YET for most
> consumers who don't have access to this technology now, but this is a
> big deal in the medical/government field.
>
> Tons of new management/administration features: a new event log (which
> supports XML and forwarding events to a specific server) that is much
> easier to use and search through; much more powerful and performant
> performance logging (tracing, counters, wmi, etc), enhanced task
> scheduler (example: you can have a task run whenever a certain event is
> logged via the event log), enahnced offline files (syncing to a server
> only sends the CHANGES MADE to the files over the wire - roaming
> profiles just got a whole lot quicker).
>
> Of course, these are only some examples that show specific cases for
> upgrade. There are many other enahncements in Vista.
>
> Reliability and performance are greatly improved (for example, many
> drivers can now run in user mode, including the display driver, meaning
> if they crash, the system doesn't go down - it just restarts the driver
> and the user has no idea there is a problem; also, the file system and
> registry support transactions now [applications have to be programming
> to use this feature], meaning if the power goes out your applications
> can recover their files/registry settings to a usable state).
>
> If you think that the new start orb is the only thing new in Vista, you
> are sorely mistaken.
>
> Here's a good website that glazes over some of the most significant
> technical changes:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technic..._Windows_Vista
>
> And the most prominent end-user visible features that most people are
> aware of:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature..._Windows_Vista
>
> So ... does this mean you should upgrade? I don't presume to speak for
> anyone but myself. I think one should look at the benefits vs. the cost
> and decide for themselves.
>

Bob thanks for those useful links a few items in there that I was
unaware of, it is good that some forethought has been used it supporting
future technologies and applications however looking at Vista as a
whole there are really no must haves or quick wins that I think would
justify the pain of moving from a stable XP environment to Vista (which
is a little too buggy for serious use) for the next 18 months. I will
continue to use it as my clients will expect me to to be proficient in
it's support when they do eventually make the move.

Sorry meant Jimmy not Bob.

Bob thanks for those useful links a few items in there that I was
unaware of, it is good that some forethought has been used it supporting
future technologies and applications however looking at Vista as a
whole there are really no must haves or quick wins that I think would
justify the pain of moving from a stable XP environment to Vista (which
is a little too buggy for serious use) for the next 18 months. I will
continue to use it as my clients will expect me to to be proficient in
it's support when they do eventually make the move.