History and Where are we Now?

Thanks Kerry. I couldn't have been more eloquent myself.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:%23HOQ6%23KZHHA.4368@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Stephan Rose" <kermos@nospam.somrek.net> wrote in message
> news:nfGdnTaBrtD6o2jYnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>
>>> One thing, and one thing alone, makes Vista stand out for me.
>>>
>>> It is *****FINALLY***** going to force programmers to do their job
>>> correctly. Because of this, we will all see a tremendous benefit in
>>> about
>>> 2 years, when the older programs - that kinda/sorta work - are finally
>>> laid to rest.
>>
>> Would you please elaborate on that and tell me how I am doing my job
>> incorrectly?
>>
>
> You may not be. Most Windows programmers are not doing their job
> correctly. They assume users have administrator privileges. They assume
> they have write access to system wide registry settings and files. They
> store user data in system locations. They assume their program can talk
> directly to system services and even alter the way they work. The list
> goes on and on.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>
>

The "vast" majority of today's programs will not even allow you to choose to
install for one user or all users.

How's that for incompetence?

--


Regards,

Richard Urban MVP
Microsoft Windows Shell/User


"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:%23HOQ6%23KZHHA.4368@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Stephan Rose" <kermos@nospam.somrek.net> wrote in message
> news:nfGdnTaBrtD6o2jYnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>
>>> One thing, and one thing alone, makes Vista stand out for me.
>>>
>>> It is *****FINALLY***** going to force programmers to do their job
>>> correctly. Because of this, we will all see a tremendous benefit in
>>> about
>>> 2 years, when the older programs - that kinda/sorta work - are finally
>>> laid to rest.
>>
>> Would you please elaborate on that and tell me how I am doing my job
>> incorrectly?
>>
>
> You may not be. Most Windows programmers are not doing their job
> correctly. They assume users have administrator privileges. They assume
> they have write access to system wide registry settings and files. They
> store user data in system locations. They assume their program can talk
> directly to system services and even alter the way they work. The list
> goes on and on.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> http://www.vistahelp.ca
>
>

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23hRyExIZHHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> One thing, and one thing alone, makes Vista stand out for me.
>
> It is *****FINALLY***** going to force programmers to do their job
> correctly. Because of this, we will all see a tremendous benefit in about
> 2 years, when the older programs - that kinda/sorta work - are finally
> laid to rest.
>
> It's about time!
>
> --
>

Yes, I've made double-checked my code to ensure that my 'Toggle UAC on and
off application' will be free from any potential buffer overrun exploits.

--
Jon

"Jon" <Email_Address@SomewhereOrOther.com> wrote in message
news:uvkBFVLZHHA.808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23hRyExIZHHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> One thing, and one thing alone, makes Vista stand out for me.
>>
>> It is *****FINALLY***** going to force programmers to do their job
>> correctly. Because of this, we will all see a tremendous benefit in about
>> 2 years, when the older programs - that kinda/sorta work - are finally
>> laid to rest.
>>
>> It's about time!
>>
>> --
>>
>
> Yes, I've made double-checked my code to ensure that my 'Toggle UAC on and
> off application' will be free from any potential buffer overrun exploits.
>
> --
> Jon
>
>
>
>

Should have double-checked me syntax too.

--
Jon

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:07:08 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
<kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:

>"Stephan Rose" <kermos@nospam.somrek.net> wrote in message
>news:nfGdnTaBrtD6o2jYnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@giganews.co m...
>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>
>>> One thing, and one thing alone, makes Vista stand out for me.
>>>
>>> It is *****FINALLY***** going to force programmers to do their job
>>> correctly. Because of this, we will all see a tremendous benefit in about
>>> 2 years, when the older programs - that kinda/sorta work - are finally
>>> laid to rest.
>>
>> Would you please elaborate on that and tell me how I am doing my job
>> incorrectly?
>>
>
>You may not be. Most Windows programmers are not doing their job correctly.
>They assume users have administrator privileges. They assume they have write
>access to system wide registry settings and files. They store user data in
>system locations. They assume their program can talk directly to system
>services and even alter the way they work. The list goes on and on.

Lets be truthful. It isn't Windows programmers, rather the programmers
of Windows (Microsoft) that has caused end users endless grief from
the beginning. The reasons are simple.

Windows is bloated. Far in excess of what it needs to be. Proof of
that is look at any other OS, like the Mac platform or Linux and check
both the size of a typical install and the number of files that get
installed by default. Windows Vista has tens of thousands of "system"
files. From a programer's point of view, that's insanity and anybody
that tries to tell you different doesn't have a clue what he's talking
about.

Windows wasn't designed to be a secure OS. That in part goes back to
when Microsoft under the direction of Bill Gates originally conceived
and wrote the first version of Windows over 20 years ago. Anybody
needs poof, just ask and I can provide several revealing comments on
what Gates himself thought about the future of the Internet and why he
originally ignored it as both a potential threat and as something to
exploit. This major blunder is WHY Windows is so susceptible to
hackers that use the Internet to attack Windows. The reason being
Windows only gets patched, NEVER fixed, which would require rewriting
from the ground up. So all the security threats that were in the
original Windows design still remain, just hidden under layer after
layer of bloated code in some feeble attempt to make things safer. The
moronic UAC is just the latest attempt in a long line of prior "fixes"
that hackers cut throught like a hot knife through butter.

The list does go on and on. Like Windows applets being dumb. Like
Media Player that is so dumb it will constantly go out to the Internet
to "find" a audio codec it already has installed, but is too dumb to
use thus refusing to play the audio portion on many video files that
other applications installed on the same box have no trouble with at
all. That gives you an idea of the real competency or lack there of
when discussing Microsoft's programmers.

I just touched on three areas. Windows is bloated, Windows isn't and
can't be made secure and Windows is so dumb it can't do what other
applications on the same box can, not even find a Microsoft codec and
know how to use it. Very revealing.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:25:41 -0400, "Richard Urban"
<richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:

>The "vast" majority of today's programs will not even allow you to choose to
>install for one user or all users.
>
>How's that for incompetence?

That actually is an installer issue rather than an application issue.
Most likely meaning that they are using an outdated installer package
to create the install program.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:07:08 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
<kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:

>"Stephan Rose" <kermos@nospam.somrek.net> wrote in message
>news:nfGdnTaBrtD6o2jYnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@giganews.co m...
>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>
>>> One thing, and one thing alone, makes Vista stand out for me.
>>>
>>> It is *****FINALLY***** going to force programmers to do their job
>>> correctly. Because of this, we will all see a tremendous benefit in about
>>> 2 years, when the older programs - that kinda/sorta work - are finally
>>> laid to rest.
>>
>> Would you please elaborate on that and tell me how I am doing my job
>> incorrectly?
>>
>
>You may not be. Most Windows programmers are not doing their job correctly.
>They assume users have administrator privileges. They assume they have write
>access to system wide registry settings and files. They store user data in
>system locations. They assume their program can talk directly to system
>services and even alter the way they work. The list goes on and on.

Now that I can actually agree on! I knew there was a reason why I keep
my apps to 1 single EXE, no DLLs or registry (can't even use those
since my code is cross platform) =)

> It is *****FINALLY***** going to force programmers to do their job
> correctly. Because of this, we will all see a tremendous benefit in about 2
> years, when the older programs - that kinda/sorta work - are finally laid to
> rest.
>
> It's about time!

Excellent, an argument to wait for 2 years before going to Vista
<smile>.

The history of Windows is such that while I have a handful of Vista
systems up and running to get increased hands on experience with it, I
doubt I'll push it out to clients until SP1 is out. By history, I mean
this -- Win95 -- OSR2 was the key, Win 98 -- SE was the winning
version, Win 2000 -- SP3 was when it got really nic, Win XP -- SP2
here. So Vista -- with the same Microsoft legacy, strikes me as
something needing a similar response.

Note, those 'programmers' include Microsoft folks as well -- it takes
them a fair amount of time (no indictment of them here by the way), to
incorporate updates to their OS once it gets true mass use and
feedback. I suspect in part that is why Microsoft pretty much imposes
a post release mass use of the new OS -- but also why businesses often
have the option to stay with the previous OS for 6 months to a year
with NEW hardware purchases. (example -- if you are buying a new Dell,
purchase via the small business, rather than end user portal and you
can get XP SP2 in many of the systems (including notebooks).



--
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:56:18 -0000, "Mark Rae"
<mark@markNOSPAMrae.com> wrote:

>"SysAdminTH" <notarealaddress@amuro.net> wrote in message
>news:OQuSlDJZHHA.348@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
>> Would you care to elaborate on that statement, I think by SP2 we may back
>> to XP functionality!
>
>Just take a glance at the Vista bashers in here... Their posts are
>invariably "Vista is crap but XP is great..."
>
>However, these were the same type of posts when XP was first released: "XP
>is crap, but Win2k is great..."
>
>So, what the Vista bashers are really saying is that XP+SP2 is great...
>
>By the time Vienna gets here, there will be countless posts saying "Vienna
>is crap but Vista is great..."
>
>And what they will mean is that Vista+SP2 (or whichever number the latest SP
>is by then) is great...
>
>This is how it's always been...
>

It seems some people are never happy unless they can complain about
something.

Hello,

There are many features that Vista exposes at a technical level that make a
compelling case for upgrade, depending on the person's needs.

Just a few technical examples:

Updated networking: Much more efficient network stack, especially when
coupled with other Vista (and eventually Longhorn Server) machines. Compared
to XP, uses your available bandwith much better (maintains throughput),
especially in high latency scenarios (i.e. satellite linkage).

New way of putting pixels on the screen: It may seem like just eyecandy, but
this will enhance the performance of current multimedia apps and feed the
next generation of multimedia applications, both games and more traditional
apps. Features that are unavailable in XP, such as the desktop composition
engine, and specifically allowing video memory to be virtualized/swapped and
forcing the video driver to properly implement scheduling, really unleash
the power (and ability to multitask) these apps.

Advanced printing and display: Vista supports high-DPI and high-contrast
monitors and printers. This may not be a "big deal" YET for most consumers
who don't have access to this technology now, but this is a big deal in the
medical/government field.

Tons of new management/administration features: a new event log (which
supports XML and forwarding events to a specific server) that is much easier
to use and search through; much more powerful and performant performance
logging (tracing, counters, wmi, etc), enhanced task scheduler (example: you
can have a task run whenever a certain event is logged via the event log),
enahnced offline files (syncing to a server only sends the CHANGES MADE to
the files over the wire - roaming profiles just got a whole lot quicker).

Of course, these are only some examples that show specific cases for
upgrade. There are many other enahncements in Vista.

Reliability and performance are greatly improved (for example, many drivers
can now run in user mode, including the display driver, meaning if they
crash, the system doesn't go down - it just restarts the driver and the user
has no idea there is a problem; also, the file system and registry support
transactions now [applications have to be programming to use this feature],
meaning if the power goes out your applications can recover their
files/registry settings to a usable state).

If you think that the new start orb is the only thing new in Vista, you are
sorely mistaken.

Here's a good website that glazes over some of the most significant
technical changes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technic..._Windows_Vista

And the most prominent end-user visible features that most people are aware
of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature..._Windows_Vista

So ... does this mean you should upgrade? I don't presume to speak for
anyone but myself. I think one should look at the benefits vs. the cost and
decide for themselves.

--
- JB
Microsoft MVP - Windows Shell/User

Windows Vista Support Faq
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/