I don't think you need anti-virus with Vista

Steve Thackery wrote:
> I've created a new thread for this because it is seriously off-topic
> for the original thread (see "Vista Key.." below).
>
> I wrote:
>
>>>
> I've been running Vista Home Premium since 31st January, WITHOUT any
> anti-virus software at all, and in fact no other security software
> whatsoever apart from what comes "in the box". It is powered up all
> the time and permanently connected to the Internet via a router.

That can happen. It can also happen, as evidenced by repair shops and
requests here, that a machine may have more virus code than the operating
system.

It depends.

On what sites you visit, what you download, whether you have kids that are
easily tempted, whether you're on a network with foolish users, and so on.

> It depends.
> On what sites you visit, what you download, whether you have kids that are
> easily tempted, whether you're on a network with foolish users, and so on.

Indeed it does. Viruses and malware are easy to avoid if you are a
reasonably savvy user. If I had kids using my computer, I would most likely
adopt a different policy.

SteveT

Steve Thackery wrote:

>> It depends.
>> On what sites you visit, what you download, whether you have kids that
>> are easily tempted, whether you're on a network with foolish users, and
>> so on.
>
> Indeed it does. Viruses and malware are easy to avoid if you are a
> reasonably savvy user. If I had kids using my computer, I would most
> likely adopt a different policy.
>
> SteveT

Steve, Could you please explain what you mean by a "reasonably savvy user"?
How savvy would a user have to be to avoid a drive-by virus attack? Let's
assume that a user didn't have an anti-virus software program installed but
was relying on Microsoft's patches to protect ones computer. Those patches
are updated monthly and will not necessarily plug all holes that might
exist to defeat such an attack.

Here's an interesting little experiment. Yes, it's being run on XP, but it
does compare IE6, IE7 and Firefox 2 in terms of protecting against a
drive-by ...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3qxg0z6YQy4

Notice that his computer is ONLY protected by AV software when he's using
IE. Whether Vista would give him the same protection without AV software
running, I don't know?

Cheers.

--
Remove Vista Activation Completely ...
http://tinyurl.com/2w8qqo

Frank - seek help immediately! Visit ...
http://www.binsa.org/

Paul Smith wrote:

> "Steve Thackery" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:eAFIU93NIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
>> With this experience, I'm more convinced than ever that security products
>> over and above what comes with Vista "in the box" are, for me, completely
>> unnecessary and a waste of money.
>>
>> Is anyone else brave enough to reject the current paranoid paradigm?
>
> I haven't got around to installing any AV on my Windows Vista machines,
> the
> machines are all locked down and only I can install things. Most
> infections come about my a user executing the virus to start with.
>
Not true! Explain drive-by viruses if you would.

Cheers.

--
Remove Vista Activation Completely ...
http://tinyurl.com/2w8qqo

Frank - seek help immediately! Visit ...
http://www.binsa.org/

"Steve Thackery" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:OUmOFA6NIHA.5720@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> It depends.
>> On what sites you visit, what you download, whether you have kids that
>> are easily tempted, whether you're on a network with foolish users, and
>> so on.
>
> Indeed it does. Viruses and malware are easy to avoid if you are a
> reasonably savvy user. If I had kids using my computer, I would most
> likely adopt a different policy.
>
> SteveT

reasonably savvy user?
that may have cut it back in the days when you had to intentionally open an
unknown attachment in an email from an unknown source to get infected.
these days all you have to do is receive the email, or visit a website, or
just be connected to the internet.
virus and spyware purveyors are much more clever these days, cleverer then
many "savvy" users.

even being connected without a -good- AV app runing is just asking for it.

"NoStop" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:fj7o6o1nbt@news4.newsguy.com...
> Paul Smith wrote:
>
>> "Steve Thackery" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:eAFIU93NIHA.4476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> With this experience, I'm more convinced than ever that security
>>> products
>>> over and above what comes with Vista "in the box" are, for me,
>>> completely
>>> unnecessary and a waste of money.
>>>
>>> Is anyone else brave enough to reject the current paranoid paradigm?
>>
>> I haven't got around to installing any AV on my Windows Vista machines,
>> the
>> machines are all locked down and only I can install things. Most
>> infections come about my a user executing the virus to start with.
>>
> Not true! Explain drive-by viruses if you would.
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Remove Vista Activation Completely ...
> http://tinyurl.com/2w8qqo
>
> Frank - seek help immediately! Visit ...
> http://www.binsa.org/
>

ActiveX was the main culprit for drive-bys. It was previously able to
execute files and install software without user knowledge or permission.

This isn't the case anymore.

That nice little video shows Norton flagging a virus file (yes,
auto-downloaded to the cache and this shouldn't happen, I agree) but did it
execute? All I saw was an indication that access was denied to the file, no
indication that the file was run, just that it was found in the cache and it
was flagged and quarantined.

I'm sure he gets the exact same message if he were to download an infected
file manually, since that's what an AV program is supposed to do. The file
simply has to be created, moved or simply open the folder it's in and the AV
should warn you and if the setting to quarantine is on auto, move the file
to a safe place where it can't be mistakenly executed.

I'm also wondering, did he run auto-update after he installed Internet
Explorer 7? Yes, I agree, all updates should be rolled into the
installation but guess what? They aren't. After you install it you still
have to run auto-update to get it totally up to speed.

Microsoft said they "fixed" the "flaw" he's showing us, perhaps they
actually did, but if he didn't install the update, then the "flaw" will
naturally show up in his test.

I also find it interesting that there are no comments on the page, even
after almost 200 views (at time I viewed the video) so I'm assuming he's
deleting all arguments about his test.

I personally don't advocate running without antivirus software, but these
types of demonstrations simply add to the paranoia of people that don't
understand the way computers work these days.

Are there exploits? Of course, can you avoid them? Yes, you can, you have
to be smart. Run AV software, use a firewall, don't download files from
sites that look anything like the site he visited, keep your software and
your OS up to date, if you don't know where it came from, don't run it.
It's that simple.

In twenty five plus years of using, working on, with, and building computers
I've had one virus, and I infected the virtual machine deliberately just to
see how much damage it would do. (It was the "stoned" virus, a rather
benign little thing that simply slowed everything down)

Mic

On Dec 5, 5:15 pm, "bomb#20" <darkstar@home> wrote:
> Andy C.(never #) wrote:
>
> <Snip>
>
> > When was the last time I personally saw a machine that was infected
> > with a virus? Today. So, while you're experience is no less valid, it
> > isn't typical.
>
> Just out of interest, could you tell us the name of the virus and the name of the
> antivirus program that flagged it ?
> Thanks.
> .

Nope. Don't want to get fired this close to retirement. Hope you
understand.

No more later,

Andy C.(never #)

Andy C.(never #) wrote:
> On Dec 5, 5:15 pm, "bomb#20" <darkstar@home> wrote:
>> Andy C.(never #) wrote:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>>> When was the last time I personally saw a machine that was infected
>>> with a virus? Today. So, while you're experience is no less valid,
>>> it isn't typical.
>>
>> Just out of interest, could you tell us the name of the virus and
>> the name of the antivirus program that flagged it ?
>> Thanks.
>> .
>
> Nope. Don't want to get fired this close to retirement. Hope you
> understand.
>
> No more later,
>
> Andy C.(never #)

No. I'm afraid I don't understand.
How can naming a virus type or an antivirus program affect your employment?
What's wrong with telling us which antivirus program actually does something useful?
..

> These days all you have to do is receive the email, or visit a website, or
> just be connected to the internet.....
>
> ..even being connected without a -good- AV app runing is just asking for
> it.

You keep making this assertion, but where is your proof?

I've got proof: my PC has been connected to the Internet continuously for
two years, during which time I've made extensive use of email and web
browsing (I work from home, and do my work on the unprotected PC), and it
has come to no harm whatsoever.

I repeat, have you actually tried it, like I have, or are you simply
repeating the assertions you've been brainwashed into believing?

SteveT

> Here's an interesting little experiment. Yes, it's being run on XP, but it
> does compare IE6, IE7 and Firefox 2 in terms of protecting against a
> drive-by ...

Hmmm.... but that "drive by" attack relies on an unpatched bug in IE6. IE7
is unaffected, and IE6 was patched ages ago. Vista - which is what we're
talking about - comes with IE7.

What other drive-by attacks do you know of? Tell you what - I've got all my
data backed up on a NAS, so here's a challenge. Find me a website which you
think will infect my computer, and I will visit it with my unprotected but
fully patched Vista machine, and we'll see what happens. I give you my word
that I will post the results truthfully.

Remember, I shall be complying with my "rules" (posted in the top message),
of which number 3/ is relevant here: I won't deliberately or knowingly
download a program file unless its from a reputable site. All other
security settings are at the Vista default, except I've set my account to an
administrator, and made it so UAC prompts don't need my password.

There's the challenge. Go for it.

SteveT