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Texas Hold'em AI too weak

microsoft.public.windows.vista.games






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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SmVmZiBMIFNCUyBNVlA=?=
 

Posts: n/a
Texas Hold'em AI too weak
Hi,

How can we actually make the Texas Hold'em AI players harder. The advanced
AI is so weak it is almost impossible to lose. I only started playing the
game and 15 minutes later I had the AI all figured out. After 20 tournaments
I had won 17 and had a winning hand percentage of almost 80%.

This is clearly a very weak AI.

Cheers, hope you make it better!
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2007
Dale M. White
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Texas Hold'em AI too weak

They plan to keep it simple, until you get really hooked, and then Microsoft
will start adding money (points like Xbox Live) and then, they crank it up
and rain you dry.

HA HA HA ! A brilliant plan if I must say !

"Jeff L SBS MVP" <Jeff L SBS MVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:94283B72-B3BA-4DE3-BAED-4BBA0EFA3B87@microsoft.com...
> Hi,
>
> How can we actually make the Texas Hold'em AI players harder. The advanced
> AI is so weak it is almost impossible to lose. I only started playing the
> game and 15 minutes later I had the AI all figured out. After 20
> tournaments
> I had won 17 and had a winning hand percentage of almost 80%.
>
> This is clearly a very weak AI.
>
> Cheers, hope you make it better!


Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SmVmZiBMIFNCUyBNVlA=?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Texas Hold'em AI too weak
Dale,

Are you saing they have a better AI or is it just that you can play head to
head against people which are much harder to beat?

Jeff

"Dale M. White" wrote:

>
> They plan to keep it simple, until you get really hooked, and then Microsoft
> will start adding money (points like Xbox Live) and then, they crank it up
> and rain you dry.
>
> HA HA HA ! A brilliant plan if I must say !
>
> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <Jeff L SBS MVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:94283B72-B3BA-4DE3-BAED-4BBA0EFA3B87@microsoft.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > How can we actually make the Texas Hold'em AI players harder. The advanced
> > AI is so weak it is almost impossible to lose. I only started playing the
> > game and 15 minutes later I had the AI all figured out. After 20
> > tournaments
> > I had won 17 and had a winning hand percentage of almost 80%.
> >
> > This is clearly a very weak AI.
> >
> > Cheers, hope you make it better!

>
>

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2007
Dale White
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Texas Hold'em AI too weak
I was just making a joke, that Microsoft is baiting us with weak AI, until
they implement a means to bet real money and then at some point, they will
release an update, which will make it nearly impossible to beat the AI and
take us for every penny.

Sorry, thought the joke was kinda obvious.


"Jeff L SBS MVP" <JeffLSBSMVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:60D5BC55-F460-464D-97B5-1E527A2804C5@microsoft.com...
> Dale,
>
> Are you saing they have a better AI or is it just that you can play head
> to
> head against people which are much harder to beat?
>
> Jeff
>
> "Dale M. White" wrote:
>
>>
>> They plan to keep it simple, until you get really hooked, and then
>> Microsoft
>> will start adding money (points like Xbox Live) and then, they crank it
>> up
>> and rain you dry.
>>
>> HA HA HA ! A brilliant plan if I must say !
>>
>> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <Jeff L SBS MVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:94283B72-B3BA-4DE3-BAED-4BBA0EFA3B87@microsoft.com...
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > How can we actually make the Texas Hold'em AI players harder. The
>> > advanced
>> > AI is so weak it is almost impossible to lose. I only started playing
>> > the
>> > game and 15 minutes later I had the AI all figured out. After 20
>> > tournaments
>> > I had won 17 and had a winning hand percentage of almost 80%.
>> >
>> > This is clearly a very weak AI.
>> >
>> > Cheers, hope you make it better!

>>
>>



Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SmVmZiBMIFNCUyBNVlA=?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Texas Hold'em AI too weak
Dale,

I can appreciate conspriracy theory jokes.

I don't gamble so I am not worried about a points system. I do appreciate
strategy games and the complexity of producing AI in a game were you cannot
use cheating as the basis for matching the skill of a human player.

I would be willing to provide some suggestions for improving the AI.

Computer players do not respond well to betting patterns. You can
effectively scare off computer players by consistently increasing your bet.
So in the first round bet $100 as an opening bet. Most computer players will
fold or match. In the second round of betting bet $200. Computer players will
fold 9 times out of ten. Once you has establsihed monetary advantage you can
force players 'all in' on any hand you want to intimidate them out of their
stakes. The computer player also has a predictable tell when they have a
strong hand. So there are times when you should fold rather than push the AI
because they have a winning hand and will support it, but they are rare (and
costly if you don't see it).

Jeff Loucks


"Dale White" wrote:

> I was just making a joke, that Microsoft is baiting us with weak AI, until
> they implement a means to bet real money and then at some point, they will
> release an update, which will make it nearly impossible to beat the AI and
> take us for every penny.
>
> Sorry, thought the joke was kinda obvious.
>
>
> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <JeffLSBSMVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:60D5BC55-F460-464D-97B5-1E527A2804C5@microsoft.com...
> > Dale,
> >
> > Are you saing they have a better AI or is it just that you can play head
> > to
> > head against people which are much harder to beat?
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > "Dale M. White" wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> They plan to keep it simple, until you get really hooked, and then
> >> Microsoft
> >> will start adding money (points like Xbox Live) and then, they crank it
> >> up
> >> and rain you dry.
> >>
> >> HA HA HA ! A brilliant plan if I must say !
> >>
> >> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <Jeff L SBS MVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> >> message
> >> news:94283B72-B3BA-4DE3-BAED-4BBA0EFA3B87@microsoft.com...
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > How can we actually make the Texas Hold'em AI players harder. The
> >> > advanced
> >> > AI is so weak it is almost impossible to lose. I only started playing
> >> > the
> >> > game and 15 minutes later I had the AI all figured out. After 20
> >> > tournaments
> >> > I had won 17 and had a winning hand percentage of almost 80%.
> >> >
> >> > This is clearly a very weak AI.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers, hope you make it better!
> >>
> >>

>
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2007
Dale M. White
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Texas Hold'em AI too weak
I hadn't played much of the Texas Hld'em until you said something, but I did
notice the pattern you're talking about. I don't know much about poker at
all and so when I first played, I thought I was going to get creamed.
Instead, like you I won my first series with an 81%.

The pattern seems to be about bluffing. sometimes I notice the computer
players will raise to a $100 bet and so I figured they had something, but
every now and then I would just bet anyway and like you said, if I raised
them they would fold or at the end, it would turn out, they didn't have any
better of a hand then I did.

I've played two rounds (61 hands)and have a winning hands percentage of 86%.
That tells me that for a good poker player, this game probably seems pretty
weak and\or boring


"Jeff L SBS MVP" <JeffLSBSMVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:61AED2C1-6389-4AD4-A512-FC15E20D8328@microsoft.com...
> Dale,
>
> I can appreciate conspriracy theory jokes.
>
> I don't gamble so I am not worried about a points system. I do appreciate
> strategy games and the complexity of producing AI in a game were you
> cannot
> use cheating as the basis for matching the skill of a human player.
>
> I would be willing to provide some suggestions for improving the AI.
>
> Computer players do not respond well to betting patterns. You can
> effectively scare off computer players by consistently increasing your
> bet.
> So in the first round bet $100 as an opening bet. Most computer players
> will
> fold or match. In the second round of betting bet $200. Computer players
> will
> fold 9 times out of ten. Once you has establsihed monetary advantage you
> can
> force players 'all in' on any hand you want to intimidate them out of
> their
> stakes. The computer player also has a predictable tell when they have a
> strong hand. So there are times when you should fold rather than push the
> AI
> because they have a winning hand and will support it, but they are rare
> (and
> costly if you don't see it).
>
> Jeff Loucks
>
>
> "Dale White" wrote:
>
>> I was just making a joke, that Microsoft is baiting us with weak AI,
>> until
>> they implement a means to bet real money and then at some point, they
>> will
>> release an update, which will make it nearly impossible to beat the AI
>> and
>> take us for every penny.
>>
>> Sorry, thought the joke was kinda obvious.
>>
>>
>> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <JeffLSBSMVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:60D5BC55-F460-464D-97B5-1E527A2804C5@microsoft.com...
>> > Dale,
>> >
>> > Are you saing they have a better AI or is it just that you can play
>> > head
>> > to
>> > head against people which are much harder to beat?
>> >
>> > Jeff
>> >
>> > "Dale M. White" wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> They plan to keep it simple, until you get really hooked, and then
>> >> Microsoft
>> >> will start adding money (points like Xbox Live) and then, they crank
>> >> it
>> >> up
>> >> and rain you dry.
>> >>
>> >> HA HA HA ! A brilliant plan if I must say !
>> >>
>> >> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <Jeff L SBS MVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> >> message
>> >> news:94283B72-B3BA-4DE3-BAED-4BBA0EFA3B87@microsoft.com...
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> > How can we actually make the Texas Hold'em AI players harder. The
>> >> > advanced
>> >> > AI is so weak it is almost impossible to lose. I only started
>> >> > playing
>> >> > the
>> >> > game and 15 minutes later I had the AI all figured out. After 20
>> >> > tournaments
>> >> > I had won 17 and had a winning hand percentage of almost 80%.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is clearly a very weak AI.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers, hope you make it better!
>> >>
>> >>

>>
>>
>>


Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SmVmZiBMIFNCUyBNVlA=?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Texas Hold'em AI too weak
I agree Dale.

Nice meeting you here. Talk to you soon.

Jeff Loucks

"Dale M. White" wrote:

> I hadn't played much of the Texas Hld'em until you said something, but I did
> notice the pattern you're talking about. I don't know much about poker at
> all and so when I first played, I thought I was going to get creamed.
> Instead, like you I won my first series with an 81%.
>
> The pattern seems to be about bluffing. sometimes I notice the computer
> players will raise to a $100 bet and so I figured they had something, but
> every now and then I would just bet anyway and like you said, if I raised
> them they would fold or at the end, it would turn out, they didn't have any
> better of a hand then I did.
>
> I've played two rounds (61 hands)and have a winning hands percentage of 86%.
> That tells me that for a good poker player, this game probably seems pretty
> weak and\or boring
>
>
> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <JeffLSBSMVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:61AED2C1-6389-4AD4-A512-FC15E20D8328@microsoft.com...
> > Dale,
> >
> > I can appreciate conspriracy theory jokes.
> >
> > I don't gamble so I am not worried about a points system. I do appreciate
> > strategy games and the complexity of producing AI in a game were you
> > cannot
> > use cheating as the basis for matching the skill of a human player.
> >
> > I would be willing to provide some suggestions for improving the AI.
> >
> > Computer players do not respond well to betting patterns. You can
> > effectively scare off computer players by consistently increasing your
> > bet.
> > So in the first round bet $100 as an opening bet. Most computer players
> > will
> > fold or match. In the second round of betting bet $200. Computer players
> > will
> > fold 9 times out of ten. Once you has establsihed monetary advantage you
> > can
> > force players 'all in' on any hand you want to intimidate them out of
> > their
> > stakes. The computer player also has a predictable tell when they have a
> > strong hand. So there are times when you should fold rather than push the
> > AI
> > because they have a winning hand and will support it, but they are rare
> > (and
> > costly if you don't see it).
> >
> > Jeff Loucks
> >
> >
> > "Dale White" wrote:
> >
> >> I was just making a joke, that Microsoft is baiting us with weak AI,
> >> until
> >> they implement a means to bet real money and then at some point, they
> >> will
> >> release an update, which will make it nearly impossible to beat the AI
> >> and
> >> take us for every penny.
> >>
> >> Sorry, thought the joke was kinda obvious.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <JeffLSBSMVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:60D5BC55-F460-464D-97B5-1E527A2804C5@microsoft.com...
> >> > Dale,
> >> >
> >> > Are you saing they have a better AI or is it just that you can play
> >> > head
> >> > to
> >> > head against people which are much harder to beat?
> >> >
> >> > Jeff
> >> >
> >> > "Dale M. White" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> They plan to keep it simple, until you get really hooked, and then
> >> >> Microsoft
> >> >> will start adding money (points like Xbox Live) and then, they crank
> >> >> it
> >> >> up
> >> >> and rain you dry.
> >> >>
> >> >> HA HA HA ! A brilliant plan if I must say !
> >> >>
> >> >> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <Jeff L SBS MVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> >> >> message
> >> >> news:94283B72-B3BA-4DE3-BAED-4BBA0EFA3B87@microsoft.com...
> >> >> > Hi,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > How can we actually make the Texas Hold'em AI players harder. The
> >> >> > advanced
> >> >> > AI is so weak it is almost impossible to lose. I only started
> >> >> > playing
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > game and 15 minutes later I had the AI all figured out. After 20
> >> >> > tournaments
> >> >> > I had won 17 and had a winning hand percentage of almost 80%.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is clearly a very weak AI.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Cheers, hope you make it better!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>

>
>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SmF6eg==?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Texas Hold'em AI too weak
ROFL , sounds just like a barrel of fun to me haha , sigh , i wish i had a
cunning plan like this , if they had to do this u better ask for your cut
they ,
--
In Shadows we Find Security


"Dale M. White" wrote:

>
> They plan to keep it simple, until you get really hooked, and then Microsoft
> will start adding money (points like Xbox Live) and then, they crank it up
> and rain you dry.
>
> HA HA HA ! A brilliant plan if I must say !
>
> "Jeff L SBS MVP" <Jeff L SBS MVP@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:94283B72-B3BA-4DE3-BAED-4BBA0EFA3B87@microsoft.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > How can we actually make the Texas Hold'em AI players harder. The advanced
> > AI is so weak it is almost impossible to lose. I only started playing the
> > game and 15 minutes later I had the AI all figured out. After 20
> > tournaments
> > I had won 17 and had a winning hand percentage of almost 80%.
> >
> > This is clearly a very weak AI.
> >
> > Cheers, hope you make it better!

>
>

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