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Indexing - list of questions

microsoft.public.windows.vista.file management






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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SnVsaWFu?=
 

Posts: n/a
Indexing - list of questions
[Vista Home Premium]

1. Where is all the clever syntax for Search described ("from:", "about:",
etc.)

2. What does "Null Filter" mean on a filetype filter mean? What does the
File Properties Filter mean in the context of radio buttons for File
Properties Only/with contents? Example: two extensions: .bin & .nk1 - default
radio for both "Index Properties Only" - but filter for .bin is Null and for
..bk1 is File Properties. Why? Both become Plain Text if Contents are added,
and go back Null/File Properties is reset)

3. Can one force a particular a filter type (e.g. Plain Text instead of HTML?)

4. Program Files have been added to indexed locations, .exe files are
indexed for properties only but known filenames are not found. Is the
filename not a property, or why else doesn't this work?

5. What are "Properties" - properties for a file may have many tabs - which
fields on which tabs are indexed; where is this described?

6. Since one cannot index network shares (or other removable media) it has
been suggested (in a Vista Ultimate context) to install Windows Desktop
search... will it work with VHP? Would this index other "removable" media?
(such as a mounted Steganos safe?)

Thanks for enlightenment!


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
Dave Wood [MS]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Indexing - list of questions
1/ There's two main search syntax help docs I'm aware of {basic and
advanced}:
http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...02ec61033.mspx

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/des...advanced3.mspx

2/ There's pretty much no external difference between using the Null Filter
and "File Properties". Basically "File Properties" is displayed when there's
no IFilter registered for that file extension, so only basic file properties
will be indexed. The Null IFilter is an actual IFilter, but it doesn't index
any contents of the file, so again only the file properties get indexed. As
to why there's two ways of doing this, it's due to some obscure
backwards-compatability issue I believe.

3/ Unfortunately, you can't select a different IFilter through the UI - but
you can do this by setting a PersistentHandler in the registration for that
file extension in the registry. The mechanism is described here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309173

4/ I'm not sure why you are not seeing .exe files in Program Files - there's
two issues issues I can think of:
- Check in the indexing options control panel that Program Files is
really being indexed. If you just select to index the root of C:\, then
Program Files, {and Windows} folders will be excluded by default. You need
to explicity expand the folder tree and select Program Files to be indexed.
- Files can mark themselves as wanting to be excluded from indexing - if
you right-click a file, go to properties -> general -> advanced, there's a
check-box "Index this file for faster searching". If that's not set the file
has excluded itself.

5/ Normally when we talk about indexing File Properties, we mean basic stuff
like name, extension, folder path, last modified date etc. Although I'm not
sure what else get's indexed though.

6/ You don't want to install Windows Desktop Search on Vista - it won't
install anyhow. But we have an add-in for indexing Network shares that I
think should do what you want:
http://gallery.live.com/liveItemDeta...e2d948f2fa&l=3


I hope this helps,

Dave Wood


"Julian" <Julian@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A3B1D70F-5DC8-41F5-A4F8-DDDACF7BEFF1@microsoft.com...
> [Vista Home Premium]
>
> 1. Where is all the clever syntax for Search described ("from:", "about:",
> etc.)
>
> 2. What does "Null Filter" mean on a filetype filter mean? What does the
> File Properties Filter mean in the context of radio buttons for File
> Properties Only/with contents? Example: two extensions: .bin & .nk1 -
> default
> radio for both "Index Properties Only" - but filter for .bin is Null and
> for
> .bk1 is File Properties. Why? Both become Plain Text if Contents are
> added,
> and go back Null/File Properties is reset)
>
> 3. Can one force a particular a filter type (e.g. Plain Text instead of
> HTML?)
>
> 4. Program Files have been added to indexed locations, .exe files are
> indexed for properties only but known filenames are not found. Is the
> filename not a property, or why else doesn't this work?
>
> 5. What are "Properties" - properties for a file may have many tabs -
> which
> fields on which tabs are indexed; where is this described?
>
> 6. Since one cannot index network shares (or other removable media) it has
> been suggested (in a Vista Ultimate context) to install Windows Desktop
> search... will it work with VHP? Would this index other "removable"
> media?
> (such as a mounted Steganos safe?)
>
> Thanks for enlightenment!
>
>


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SnVsaWFu?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Indexing - list of questions
Nice to make your acquaintance Dave - and thanks for the helpful reply

I'll try the download for network shares you suggested later (windows Live
Gallery seems to be down at the moment) - just wanted to answer one of your
questions and to flag something while I had your attention. [NB I remember
the Persistent Handler thing from XP... and knowing about "backwards
compatibility" makes it more understandable]

Yes "Program Files" is an explicit location, but known apps are not found.
Since I elsewhere noted odd behaviour from Search for the typing sequences
gam... game... games (game -> results, game/games ->none; game* like "gam"
results) the index has been rebuilt but no change in behaviour noted.

I also checked one not-found file and confirmed that "Index this file" is
checked (as is Program Files itself), so the mystery persists.

Can that that "exclude me" on a per-file basis be over-ridden? I don't like
the idea that files can make themselves difficult to find... combine this
feature with some of the new peculiarities of links/shortcuts (see another
post elsewhere, also related to searching) and malware has some handy tricks
for hiding...

It's nice to know that some MS representatives are listening... you don't
sit near anyone responsible for the Briefcase do you (he asked hopefully)?

Thanks again,

Julian

"Dave Wood [MS]" wrote:

> 1/ There's two main search syntax help docs I'm aware of {basic and
> advanced}:
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...02ec61033.mspx
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/des...advanced3.mspx
>
> 2/ There's pretty much no external difference between using the Null Filter
> and "File Properties". Basically "File Properties" is displayed when there's
> no IFilter registered for that file extension, so only basic file properties
> will be indexed. The Null IFilter is an actual IFilter, but it doesn't index
> any contents of the file, so again only the file properties get indexed. As
> to why there's two ways of doing this, it's due to some obscure
> backwards-compatability issue I believe.
>
> 3/ Unfortunately, you can't select a different IFilter through the UI - but
> you can do this by setting a PersistentHandler in the registration for that
> file extension in the registry. The mechanism is described here:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309173
>
> 4/ I'm not sure why you are not seeing .exe files in Program Files - there's
> two issues issues I can think of:
> - Check in the indexing options control panel that Program Files is
> really being indexed. If you just select to index the root of C:\, then
> Program Files, {and Windows} folders will be excluded by default. You need
> to explicity expand the folder tree and select Program Files to be indexed.
> - Files can mark themselves as wanting to be excluded from indexing - if
> you right-click a file, go to properties -> general -> advanced, there's a
> check-box "Index this file for faster searching". If that's not set the file
> has excluded itself.
>
> 5/ Normally when we talk about indexing File Properties, we mean basic stuff
> like name, extension, folder path, last modified date etc. Although I'm not
> sure what else get's indexed though.
>
> 6/ You don't want to install Windows Desktop Search on Vista - it won't
> install anyhow. But we have an add-in for indexing Network shares that I
> think should do what you want:
> http://gallery.live.com/liveItemDeta...e2d948f2fa&l=3
>
>
> I hope this helps,
>
> Dave Wood
>
>
> "Julian" <Julian@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:A3B1D70F-5DC8-41F5-A4F8-DDDACF7BEFF1@microsoft.com...
> > [Vista Home Premium]
> >
> > 1. Where is all the clever syntax for Search described ("from:", "about:",
> > etc.)
> >
> > 2. What does "Null Filter" mean on a filetype filter mean? What does the
> > File Properties Filter mean in the context of radio buttons for File
> > Properties Only/with contents? Example: two extensions: .bin & .nk1 -
> > default
> > radio for both "Index Properties Only" - but filter for .bin is Null and
> > for
> > .bk1 is File Properties. Why? Both become Plain Text if Contents are
> > added,
> > and go back Null/File Properties is reset)
> >
> > 3. Can one force a particular a filter type (e.g. Plain Text instead of
> > HTML?)
> >
> > 4. Program Files have been added to indexed locations, .exe files are
> > indexed for properties only but known filenames are not found. Is the
> > filename not a property, or why else doesn't this work?
> >
> > 5. What are "Properties" - properties for a file may have many tabs -
> > which
> > fields on which tabs are indexed; where is this described?
> >
> > 6. Since one cannot index network shares (or other removable media) it has
> > been suggested (in a Vista Ultimate context) to install Windows Desktop
> > search... will it work with VHP? Would this index other "removable"
> > media?
> > (such as a mounted Steganos safe?)
> >
> > Thanks for enlightenment!
> >
> >

>
>

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SnVsaWFu?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Indexing - list of questions
Hi again,

It wasn't a site problem, that link for indexing network shares causes an
error... can you confirm the link?

Thanks

<sinip>
> But we have an add-in for indexing Network shares that I
> think should do what you want:
> http://gallery.live.com/liveItemDeta...e2d948f2fa&l=3


Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2007
Dave Wood [MS]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Indexing - list of questions

The link works for me. But just in case I found it by going to
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/des...h/default.mspx and then
hovering over Windows Desktop Search on the left and selecting "Desktop
Search Add-ins". Then select 'Add-in for files on Microsoft networks'.

A couple of people have reported the "game" / "games" type-of problem, and
we've tried to repro in-house to no avail. Some people report they saw it on
RC builds of Vista but not on the final release - don't know if this applies
in your case. Is this just on the start menu looking for applications? -
this doesn't actually use the index so maybe there something else going on.

There's no way currently to ignore the 'exclude' flag {it's officially
called FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NOT_CONTENT_INDEXED, or more informally "the FANCI
bit"}. It's been in Windows for a while and was previously used to control
the old Content Indexing service in XP. Generally I would argue that if
malware can get itself installed on your system it can do an awful lot more
to hide itself than this, although I agree the number of different options
for controlling whether a file is indexed or not can make these things
complex.

FYI: running "dir /AI" from a command-line shows all such files in a
directory. Or they appear in explorer with the 'N' attribute.

Sorry, I know less about Briefcase than you do ...

Dave


"Julian" <Julian@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:8B505AAA-DA7E-4D71-8C7C-994CBE044B55@microsoft.com...
> Nice to make your acquaintance Dave - and thanks for the helpful reply
>
> I'll try the download for network shares you suggested later (windows Live
> Gallery seems to be down at the moment) - just wanted to answer one of
> your
> questions and to flag something while I had your attention. [NB I remember
> the Persistent Handler thing from XP... and knowing about "backwards
> compatibility" makes it more understandable]
>
> Yes "Program Files" is an explicit location, but known apps are not found.
> Since I elsewhere noted odd behaviour from Search for the typing sequences
> gam... game... games (game -> results, game/games ->none; game* like "gam"
> results) the index has been rebuilt but no change in behaviour noted.
>
> I also checked one not-found file and confirmed that "Index this file" is
> checked (as is Program Files itself), so the mystery persists.
>
> Can that that "exclude me" on a per-file basis be over-ridden? I don't
> like
> the idea that files can make themselves difficult to find... combine this
> feature with some of the new peculiarities of links/shortcuts (see another
> post elsewhere, also related to searching) and malware has some handy
> tricks
> for hiding...
>
> It's nice to know that some MS representatives are listening... you don't
> sit near anyone responsible for the Briefcase do you (he asked hopefully)?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Julian
>
> "Dave Wood [MS]" wrote:
>
>> 1/ There's two main search syntax help docs I'm aware of {basic and
>> advanced}:
>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...02ec61033.mspx
>>
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/des...advanced3.mspx
>>
>> 2/ There's pretty much no external difference between using the Null
>> Filter
>> and "File Properties". Basically "File Properties" is displayed when
>> there's
>> no IFilter registered for that file extension, so only basic file
>> properties
>> will be indexed. The Null IFilter is an actual IFilter, but it doesn't
>> index
>> any contents of the file, so again only the file properties get indexed.
>> As
>> to why there's two ways of doing this, it's due to some obscure
>> backwards-compatability issue I believe.
>>
>> 3/ Unfortunately, you can't select a different IFilter through the UI -
>> but
>> you can do this by setting a PersistentHandler in the registration for
>> that
>> file extension in the registry. The mechanism is described here:
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309173
>>
>> 4/ I'm not sure why you are not seeing .exe files in Program Files -
>> there's
>> two issues issues I can think of:
>> - Check in the indexing options control panel that Program Files is
>> really being indexed. If you just select to index the root of C:\, then
>> Program Files, {and Windows} folders will be excluded by default. You
>> need
>> to explicity expand the folder tree and select Program Files to be
>> indexed.
>> - Files can mark themselves as wanting to be excluded from indexing -
>> if
>> you right-click a file, go to properties -> general -> advanced, there's
>> a
>> check-box "Index this file for faster searching". If that's not set the
>> file
>> has excluded itself.
>>
>> 5/ Normally when we talk about indexing File Properties, we mean basic
>> stuff
>> like name, extension, folder path, last modified date etc. Although I'm
>> not
>> sure what else get's indexed though.
>>
>> 6/ You don't want to install Windows Desktop Search on Vista - it won't
>> install anyhow. But we have an add-in for indexing Network shares that I
>> think should do what you want:
>> http://gallery.live.com/liveItemDeta...e2d948f2fa&l=3
>>
>>
>> I hope this helps,
>>
>> Dave Wood
>>
>>
>> "Julian" <Julian@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:A3B1D70F-5DC8-41F5-A4F8-DDDACF7BEFF1@microsoft.com...
>> > [Vista Home Premium]
>> >
>> > 1. Where is all the clever syntax for Search described ("from:",
>> > "about:",
>> > etc.)
>> >
>> > 2. What does "Null Filter" mean on a filetype filter mean? What does
>> > the
>> > File Properties Filter mean in the context of radio buttons for File
>> > Properties Only/with contents? Example: two extensions: .bin & .nk1 -
>> > default
>> > radio for both "Index Properties Only" - but filter for .bin is Null
>> > and
>> > for
>> > .bk1 is File Properties. Why? Both become Plain Text if Contents are
>> > added,
>> > and go back Null/File Properties is reset)
>> >
>> > 3. Can one force a particular a filter type (e.g. Plain Text instead of
>> > HTML?)
>> >
>> > 4. Program Files have been added to indexed locations, .exe files are
>> > indexed for properties only but known filenames are not found. Is the
>> > filename not a property, or why else doesn't this work?
>> >
>> > 5. What are "Properties" - properties for a file may have many tabs -
>> > which
>> > fields on which tabs are indexed; where is this described?
>> >
>> > 6. Since one cannot index network shares (or other removable media) it
>> > has
>> > been suggested (in a Vista Ultimate context) to install Windows Desktop
>> > search... will it work with VHP? Would this index other "removable"
>> > media?
>> > (such as a mounted Steganos safe?)
>> >
>> > Thanks for enlightenment!
>> >
>> >

>>
>>


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2007
=?Utf-8?B?SnVsaWFu?=
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Indexing - list of questions
> The link works for me. But just in case I found it by going to
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/des...h/default.mspx


Thanks for the alternate approach, I've tried that too now, but it's the
same error. I can get to add-ins either side but not that one for Microsoft
Networks

> A couple of people have reported the "game" / "games" type-of problem, and
> we've tried to repro in-house to no avail. Some people report they saw it on
> RC builds of Vista but not on the final release - don't know if this applies
> in your case. Is this just on the start menu looking for applications? -
> this doesn't actually use the index so maybe there something else going on.


This is Vista final; came with the new laptop. Interesting reproducibility
problem! It is on the Start search. The files can of course be found with a
Search from an Explorer window.

Re finding an app that I know exists I was initially surprised that Start
search doesn't use the index for applications, but since it certainly didn't
use the user configurable index either it has its own secret index or it does
a dynamic search every time (would seem inefficient!). I removed Program
Files as an indexed location but there's no change in behaviour. The whole
gam/game thing is very odd - and consequently worrying.

> There's no way currently to ignore the 'exclude' flag {FANCI bit}


OK, thanks for the info. (It's a purely personal thing, but I do hate being
denied choices like this)

> Generally I would argue that if
> malware can get itself installed on your system it can do an awful lot more
> to hide itself than this,


Agreed... but beginners begin somewhere.

> FYI: running "dir /AI" from a command-line shows all such files in a


Noted for future reference

> Sorry, I know less about Briefcase than you do ...


It was a long-shot, but "desperate times..." <g>

Thanks,

Julian

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008
gpzbc
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Indexing - list of questions
I was having the same problem. From the Start Search, it wouldn't find any
apps. it was only finding my documents. I figured out that it was a setting
that I had set in the "customize Start Menu" settings.

Here, look at this link that discusses the options.
http://lifehacker.com/software/vista...rch-248492.php

Hope that helps.



"Julian" wrote:

> Hi again,
>
> It wasn't a site problem, that link for indexing network shares causes an
> error... can you confirm the link?
>
> Thanks
>
> <sinip>
> > But we have an add-in for indexing Network shares that I
> > think should do what you want:
> > http://gallery.live.com/liveItemDeta...e2d948f2fa&l=3

>

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