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Search Function

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2007
Flash Gortdon
 

Posts: n/a
Search Function
OK...I know Vista is the NEW Windows...but surely the Search function could
have been made a bit more user friendly to the computer illiterate.

I click on Start...and in the Search box typed

*.pst

I KNOW there are 3 versions of this file on my computer and attached
External Hard Drive (that is also part of the index sequence, etc)

So imagine my puzzlement - when after returning 10 minutes later after a
phone call...it was

A) STILL Searching..... and

B) Had not listed ONE PST file

In fact I stopped the Search after 20 minutes - in that time it had found
one of the PST files on my EXT HD!

So I went to my laptop which runs XP...and found the 2 PST files on it
within seconds!

This would tell me something is seriously amiss with the search function on
Vista Ultimate!

Or am I missing something?

Cheers

FG

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2007
Puppy Breath
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function
The Start menu searches are really for programs, messages, and documents
where you're looking for a specific word or phrase in the file name, body of
the document/message, or properties.



For those kinds of wildcard searches, you want to use the larger Search
window (click the Start button, choose Search). If you want to search the
entire computer, not just indexed locations, click Advanced Search and use
the checkbox that extends the search to non-indexed location. You'll get a
more traditional "hash through all the files" search rather than
keystroke-by-keystroke instant search results.



The reason for this is because you can only get keystroke-by-keystroke
search results from searching an index. Even the fastest hard disks in the
world are nowhere near fast enough to give that kind of performance when
mechanically hashing through every file and folder on the drive.





"Flash Gortdon" <flash_gordon@nospam.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:e3bgVvwXHHA.2320@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> OK...I know Vista is the NEW Windows...but surely the Search function
> could have been made a bit more user friendly to the computer illiterate.
>
> I click on Start...and in the Search box typed
>
> *.pst
>
> I KNOW there are 3 versions of this file on my computer and attached
> External Hard Drive (that is also part of the index sequence, etc)
>
> So imagine my puzzlement - when after returning 10 minutes later after a
> phone call...it was
>
> A) STILL Searching..... and
>
> B) Had not listed ONE PST file
>
> In fact I stopped the Search after 20 minutes - in that time it had found
> one of the PST files on my EXT HD!
>
> So I went to my laptop which runs XP...and found the 2 PST files on it
> within seconds!
>
> This would tell me something is seriously amiss with the search function
> on Vista Ultimate!
>
> Or am I missing something?
>
> Cheers
>
> FG



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2007
just bob
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function

"Puppy Breath" <nereply@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ep$IacyXHHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> The Start menu searches are really for programs, messages, and documents
> where you're looking for a specific word or phrase in the file name, body
> of the document/message, or properties.
>
>
>
> For those kinds of wildcard searches, you want to use the larger Search
> window (click the Start button, choose Search). If you want to search the
> entire computer, not just indexed locations, click Advanced Search and use
> the checkbox that extends the search to non-indexed location. You'll get a
> more traditional "hash through all the files" search rather than
> keystroke-by-keystroke instant search results.
>
>


I tried this, too. It refuses to find the PST files using "*.pst" as s arch
value, even using advanced search.

-Bob

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2007
Puppy Breath
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function
Maybe I missed a step. I just did the following and it worked:

1. Click Start, choose Search, click Other, click Advanced Search.

2. For Location make sure you choose an option that jibes with the general
location of the file you're looking for. (I had to choose D: because that's
my XP partition and the only place where I have a .pst file).

3. In the Name box type *.pst or typest.

4. Click Search.

It should work. Of course, it won't be anywhere near as fast as an indexed
search. But it will definitely find all pst files (assuming the Location
and other options are set correctly).

I also tried it with typest in the Name box and that worked too.

"just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> wrote in message
news:%235z5WH1XHHA.984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> "Puppy Breath" <nereply@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:ep$IacyXHHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> The Start menu searches are really for programs, messages, and documents
>> where you're looking for a specific word or phrase in the file name, body
>> of the document/message, or properties.
>>
>>
>>
>> For those kinds of wildcard searches, you want to use the larger Search
>> window (click the Start button, choose Search). If you want to search the
>> entire computer, not just indexed locations, click Advanced Search and
>> use the checkbox that extends the search to non-indexed location. You'll
>> get a more traditional "hash through all the files" search rather than
>> keystroke-by-keystroke instant search results.
>>
>>

>
> I tried this, too. It refuses to find the PST files using "*.pst" as s
> arch value, even using advanced search.
>
> -Bob


Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2007
just bob
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function
Hi, I really appreciate your time.

If I type *.pst in the Start Search field, it finds the files very fast, but
it's not really a good search result listing.

So I followed your directions except I added "included non-indexed and it
finally found it but it took a long time. You would think, since it's in my
documents folder, and the start search finds it fast, the Advanced search
would be just as fast or faster.

Strange how they decided this was a good thing. The old right-click on the
my-computer to do a search was good enough for me.

Thanks again,
-Bob


"Puppy Breath" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
news:7D602583-062E-4524-9A7E-7773743D3FDC@microsoft.com...
> Maybe I missed a step. I just did the following and it worked:
>
> 1. Click Start, choose Search, click Other, click Advanced Search.
>
> 2. For Location make sure you choose an option that jibes with the general
> location of the file you're looking for. (I had to choose D: because
> that's my XP partition and the only place where I have a .pst file).
>
> 3. In the Name box type *.pst or typest.
>
> 4. Click Search.
>
> It should work. Of course, it won't be anywhere near as fast as an indexed
> search. But it will definitely find all pst files (assuming the Location
> and other options are set correctly).
>
> I also tried it with typest in the Name box and that worked too.
>
> "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> wrote in message
> news:%235z5WH1XHHA.984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "Puppy Breath" <nereply@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:ep$IacyXHHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> The Start menu searches are really for programs, messages, and documents
>>> where you're looking for a specific word or phrase in the file name,
>>> body of the document/message, or properties.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For those kinds of wildcard searches, you want to use the larger Search
>>> window (click the Start button, choose Search). If you want to search
>>> the entire computer, not just indexed locations, click Advanced Search
>>> and use the checkbox that extends the search to non-indexed location.
>>> You'll get a more traditional "hash through all the files" search rather
>>> than keystroke-by-keystroke instant search results.
>>>
>>>

>>
>> I tried this, too. It refuses to find the PST files using "*.pst" as s
>> arch value, even using advanced search.
>>
>> -Bob

>


Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
Puppy Breath
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function
It's a really great thing and the most important feature of Vista and all
the versions of Windows to follow. People just aren't used to having a
search engine on their own computer, and so can't appreciate its value. This
thing with *.pst was just getting off to a bad start because the search
index isn't about these old style searches. It's about transcending
"location" as the primary means of finding information and finding things
based on content or metadata properties instead.

I think people are just so entrenched in doing things the way we have been
since the DOS era, it's going to take some time for people to really
appreciate it. Once you've truly learned how to use the search index you'll
never go back to the old way of doing things. But it's going to take many
months, maybe years, for the full understanding of its value to reach
everyone. But once you do "get it", you'll never go back to XP or the old
way of doing things. Guaranteed.


"just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> wrote in message
news:e6Jfa$2XHHA.2436@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Hi, I really appreciate your time.
>
> If I type *.pst in the Start Search field, it finds the files very fast,
> but it's not really a good search result listing.
>
> So I followed your directions except I added "included non-indexed and it
> finally found it but it took a long time. You would think, since it's in
> my documents folder, and the start search finds it fast, the Advanced
> search would be just as fast or faster.
>
> Strange how they decided this was a good thing. The old right-click on the
> my-computer to do a search was good enough for me.
>
> Thanks again,
> -Bob
>
>
> "Puppy Breath" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
> news:7D602583-062E-4524-9A7E-7773743D3FDC@microsoft.com...
>> Maybe I missed a step. I just did the following and it worked:
>>
>> 1. Click Start, choose Search, click Other, click Advanced Search.
>>
>> 2. For Location make sure you choose an option that jibes with the
>> general location of the file you're looking for. (I had to choose D:
>> because that's my XP partition and the only place where I have a .pst
>> file).
>>
>> 3. In the Name box type *.pst or typest.
>>
>> 4. Click Search.
>>
>> It should work. Of course, it won't be anywhere near as fast as an
>> indexed search. But it will definitely find all pst files (assuming the
>> Location and other options are set correctly).
>>
>> I also tried it with typest in the Name box and that worked too.
>>
>> "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> wrote in message
>> news:%235z5WH1XHHA.984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>> "Puppy Breath" <nereply@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ep$IacyXHHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> The Start menu searches are really for programs, messages, and
>>>> documents where you're looking for a specific word or phrase in the
>>>> file name, body of the document/message, or properties.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those kinds of wildcard searches, you want to use the larger Search
>>>> window (click the Start button, choose Search). If you want to search
>>>> the entire computer, not just indexed locations, click Advanced Search
>>>> and use the checkbox that extends the search to non-indexed location.
>>>> You'll get a more traditional "hash through all the files" search
>>>> rather than keystroke-by-keystroke instant search results.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I tried this, too. It refuses to find the PST files using "*.pst" as s
>>> arch value, even using advanced search.
>>>
>>> -Bob

>>

>


Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
Flash Gortdon
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function
It finds 2 of the PST files reasonably quickly on the external drive - but
still fails to find the third/fourth ones on the C drive....

C:\Users\......\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Ou tlook.pst

C:\Users\......\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Ar chive.pst

In XP...it finds these with no problems and fairly quickly

My Search Location was set for C and J drives......

"Puppy Breath" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
news:7D602583-062E-4524-9A7E-7773743D3FDC@microsoft.com...
> Maybe I missed a step. I just did the following and it worked:
>
> 1. Click Start, choose Search, click Other, click Advanced Search.
>
> 2. For Location make sure you choose an option that jibes with the general
> location of the file you're looking for. (I had to choose D: because
> that's my XP partition and the only place where I have a .pst file).
>
> 3. In the Name box type *.pst or typest.
>
> 4. Click Search.
>
> It should work. Of course, it won't be anywhere near as fast as an indexed
> search. But it will definitely find all pst files (assuming the Location
> and other options are set correctly).
>
> I also tried it with typest in the Name box and that worked too.
>
> "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> wrote in message
> news:%235z5WH1XHHA.984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "Puppy Breath" <nereply@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:ep$IacyXHHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> The Start menu searches are really for programs, messages, and documents
>>> where you're looking for a specific word or phrase in the file name,
>>> body of the document/message, or properties.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For those kinds of wildcard searches, you want to use the larger Search
>>> window (click the Start button, choose Search). If you want to search
>>> the entire computer, not just indexed locations, click Advanced Search
>>> and use the checkbox that extends the search to non-indexed location.
>>> You'll get a more traditional "hash through all the files" search rather
>>> than keystroke-by-keystroke instant search results.
>>>
>>>

>>
>> I tried this, too. It refuses to find the PST files using "*.pst" as s
>> arch value, even using advanced search.
>>
>> -Bob

>


Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
Puppy Breath
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function
I'm not sure on that. I can't duplicate the problem here. Did you choose the
option to search outside the index? The .pst files aren't indexed, by
default. For the most part only document file types, and file types that
contain plain text, are indexed. To do an old-style XP and earlier search,
you really have to search outside the index.

The search index is really a search engine for your local hard disk, in much
the same way Google et. al. are search engines for the Web. You don't search
the Web for *.htm or specific files names. You search for keywords. The
local search engine in Vista is the same idea, except it gives
keystroke-by-keystroke search results for all folders you've deemed as
indexed locations. For example:

from: wiley about: deadlines

finds Windows Mail e-mail message about deadlines. A search for

artist:beethoven

finds all songs by Beethoven (regardless of location, filename, and such). A
search for

Jack AND Jill

finds all pictures with both Jack and Jill in then (provided you've tagged
pictures to include subject names somehow). A search for:

date modified: this week

finds all files modified this week, and so forth and so on. It's not at all
like the Search Companion in XP or anything from pre-XP Windows versions.
The ? and * wildcards are largely irrelevant because you're not looking for
specific filenames or extensions. You're looking at file contents and
metadata properties in addition to filenames.

To do the old style searches you have to choose your location (or
Everywhere) and include the non-indexed, system, and hidden files. You
should be able to find anything that way, because that reverts to the old
Search Companion style of searching where the drive physically hashes
through every folder and filename. And when you do that, it should be able
to find whatever it is you're looking for in about the same amount of time
it took XP. Because the size and speed of the drive, as well as the number
of files that need to be looked at, play the most significant role in
determining how long it takes.


"Flash Gortdon" <flash_gordon@nospam.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:uXQRDE9XHHA.992@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> It finds 2 of the PST files reasonably quickly on the external drive - but
> still fails to find the third/fourth ones on the C drive....
>
> C:\Users\......\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Ou tlook.pst
>
> C:\Users\......\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Ar chive.pst
>
> In XP...it finds these with no problems and fairly quickly
>
> My Search Location was set for C and J drives......
>
> "Puppy Breath" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
> news:7D602583-062E-4524-9A7E-7773743D3FDC@microsoft.com...
>> Maybe I missed a step. I just did the following and it worked:
>>
>> 1. Click Start, choose Search, click Other, click Advanced Search.
>>
>> 2. For Location make sure you choose an option that jibes with the
>> general location of the file you're looking for. (I had to choose D:
>> because that's my XP partition and the only place where I have a .pst
>> file).
>>
>> 3. In the Name box type *.pst or typest.
>>
>> 4. Click Search.
>>
>> It should work. Of course, it won't be anywhere near as fast as an
>> indexed search. But it will definitely find all pst files (assuming the
>> Location and other options are set correctly).
>>
>> I also tried it with typest in the Name box and that worked too.
>>
>> "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> wrote in message
>> news:%235z5WH1XHHA.984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>> "Puppy Breath" <nereply@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ep$IacyXHHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> The Start menu searches are really for programs, messages, and
>>>> documents where you're looking for a specific word or phrase in the
>>>> file name, body of the document/message, or properties.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those kinds of wildcard searches, you want to use the larger Search
>>>> window (click the Start button, choose Search). If you want to search
>>>> the entire computer, not just indexed locations, click Advanced Search
>>>> and use the checkbox that extends the search to non-indexed location.
>>>> You'll get a more traditional "hash through all the files" search
>>>> rather than keystroke-by-keystroke instant search results.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I tried this, too. It refuses to find the PST files using "*.pst" as s
>>> arch value, even using advanced search.
>>>
>>> -Bob

>>

>


Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2007
Flash Gortdon
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function
I did the "everywhere" and "non-indexed search"......but still didn't find
the files as stated below. I have double checked they are where I stated
too.

>> C:\Users\......\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Ou tlook.pst


>> C:\Users\......\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Ar chive.pst


On XP it listed the pst files in less than a couple of minutes while still
searching....

I even have the file extension PST checked for indexing, etc. as well as
Users for location and so on - so the path to the files should be covered.

I appreciate the fact that this new Search engine is totally different from
XP...but having said that I would not have expected it to have to include
more clicks and longer searches - only to find.....nothing!

Also, the fact I AM having problems trying to find these files (for back-up
purposes) tells me its not exactly user friendly either.

There is obviously a steep learning curve involved with this Search engine
and it might turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread....but maybe a
better help file or a more detailed explanation of how to set up for
searching is required......for the simple reason is - its not working.

Cheers

FG


"Puppy Breath" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
news:113C3FA6-62FB-4EB7-A554-538BE85BD0C7@microsoft.com...
> I'm not sure on that. I can't duplicate the problem here. Did you choose
> the option to search outside the index? The .pst files aren't indexed, by
> default. For the most part only document file types, and file types that
> contain plain text, are indexed. To do an old-style XP and earlier search,
> you really have to search outside the index.
>
> The search index is really a search engine for your local hard disk, in
> much the same way Google et. al. are search engines for the Web. You don't
> search the Web for *.htm or specific files names. You search for keywords.
> The local search engine in Vista is the same idea, except it gives
> keystroke-by-keystroke search results for all folders you've deemed as
> indexed locations. For example:
>
> from: wiley about: deadlines
>
> finds Windows Mail e-mail message about deadlines. A search for
>
> artist:beethoven
>
> finds all songs by Beethoven (regardless of location, filename, and such).
> A search for
>
> Jack AND Jill
>
> finds all pictures with both Jack and Jill in then (provided you've tagged
> pictures to include subject names somehow). A search for:
>
> date modified: this week
>
> finds all files modified this week, and so forth and so on. It's not at
> all like the Search Companion in XP or anything from pre-XP Windows
> versions. The ? and * wildcards are largely irrelevant because you're not
> looking for specific filenames or extensions. You're looking at file
> contents and metadata properties in addition to filenames.
>
> To do the old style searches you have to choose your location (or
> Everywhere) and include the non-indexed, system, and hidden files. You
> should be able to find anything that way, because that reverts to the old
> Search Companion style of searching where the drive physically hashes
> through every folder and filename. And when you do that, it should be able
> to find whatever it is you're looking for in about the same amount of time
> it took XP. Because the size and speed of the drive, as well as the number
> of files that need to be looked at, play the most significant role in
> determining how long it takes.
>
>
> "Flash Gortdon" <flash_gordon@nospam.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
> news:uXQRDE9XHHA.992@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> It finds 2 of the PST files reasonably quickly on the external drive -
>> but still fails to find the third/fourth ones on the C drive....
>>
>> C:\Users\......\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Ou tlook.pst
>>
>> C:\Users\......\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Ar chive.pst
>>
>> In XP...it finds these with no problems and fairly quickly
>>
>> My Search Location was set for C and J drives......
>>
>> "Puppy Breath" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
>> news:7D602583-062E-4524-9A7E-7773743D3FDC@microsoft.com...
>>> Maybe I missed a step. I just did the following and it worked:
>>>
>>> 1. Click Start, choose Search, click Other, click Advanced Search.
>>>
>>> 2. For Location make sure you choose an option that jibes with the
>>> general location of the file you're looking for. (I had to choose D:
>>> because that's my XP partition and the only place where I have a .pst
>>> file).
>>>
>>> 3. In the Name box type *.pst or typest.
>>>
>>> 4. Click Search.
>>>
>>> It should work. Of course, it won't be anywhere near as fast as an
>>> indexed search. But it will definitely find all pst files (assuming the
>>> Location and other options are set correctly).
>>>
>>> I also tried it with typest in the Name box and that worked too.
>>>
>>> "just bob" <kilbyfan-aol@net.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%235z5WH1XHHA.984@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>> "Puppy Breath" <nereply@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ep$IacyXHHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>> The Start menu searches are really for programs, messages, and
>>>>> documents where you're looking for a specific word or phrase in the
>>>>> file name, body of the document/message, or properties.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For those kinds of wildcard searches, you want to use the larger
>>>>> Search window (click the Start button, choose Search). If you want to
>>>>> search the entire computer, not just indexed locations, click Advanced
>>>>> Search and use the checkbox that extends the search to non-indexed
>>>>> location. You'll get a more traditional "hash through all the files"
>>>>> search rather than keystroke-by-keystroke instant search results.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I tried this, too. It refuses to find the PST files using "*.pst" as s
>>>> arch value, even using advanced search.
>>>>
>>>> -Bob
>>>

>>

>


Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2007
just bob
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Search Function

"Puppy Breath" <NoSpam@NoThanks.com> wrote in message
news:2AE16A67-1DC8-47BF-B2C2-3E3D427AF03B@microsoft.com...
> It's a really great thing and the most important feature of Vista and all
> the versions of Windows to follow. People just aren't used to having a
> search engine on their own computer, and so can't appreciate its value.
> This thing with *.pst was just getting off to a bad start because the
> search index isn't about these old style searches. It's about transcending
> "location" as the primary means of finding information and finding things
> based on content or metadata properties instead.
>
> I think people are just so entrenched in doing things the way we have been
> since the DOS era, it's going to take some time for people to really
> appreciate it. Once you've truly learned how to use the search index
> you'll never go back to the old way of doing things. But it's going to
> take many months, maybe years, for the full understanding of its value to
> reach everyone. But once you do "get it", you'll never go back to XP or
> the old way of doing things. Guaranteed.


Not going to happen. Those of us who have to do tech support have to be able
to manage the files, and know where they are. You can always build an index,
later. But if you've nothing to index because you have not a clue where the
files are....

It was bad enough when Outlook was storing your PST files everywhere except
in the folders you think you should be backed up. Having files scattered
even more in the OS is a nightmare.

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