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Vista Search functionality

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2007
Jim
 

Posts: n/a
Vista Search functionality
I've noticed this perceived error before, but I just recently was able to
identify the issue.

I have a Task item in Microsoft Outlook (this issue is not specific to
Outlook tasks, it is a general search issue) with a subject of "Xbox 360
Games" - it is a list of games that I am interested in purchasing. If I
enter the phrase Xbox 360 Games (without quotes) in the start menu search, no
items are found. But if I enter "Xbox 360 Games" (with quotes) in the start
menu search, I find the communication item from Outlook tasks. If I search
for Xbox 360 (without quotes) the item is found, but if I search for Xbox
Games or 360 Games (without quotes) the item is Not found. Very unexpected
behavior.

I expect Vista Search to find the task item if I put any single word from
the subject or any combination of the words. This is especially true when
dealing with File Names or in this case the Subject of the task. I believe I
found this same problem previously when searching for a specific file and I
entered several words in the file name and did not find the file, but I did
not narrow down the issue at that time.

I am using Vista Home Premium 32 with all the latest updates and Outlook
2003 with SP3.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2007
Sharon F
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista Search functionality
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:26:00 -0700, Jim wrote:

> I've noticed this perceived error before, but I just recently was able to
> identify the issue.
>
> I have a Task item in Microsoft Outlook (this issue is not specific to
> Outlook tasks, it is a general search issue) with a subject of "Xbox 360
> Games" - it is a list of games that I am interested in purchasing. If I
> enter the phrase Xbox 360 Games (without quotes) in the start menu search, no
> items are found. But if I enter "Xbox 360 Games" (with quotes) in the start
> menu search, I find the communication item from Outlook tasks. If I search
> for Xbox 360 (without quotes) the item is found, but if I search for Xbox
> Games or 360 Games (without quotes) the item is Not found. Very unexpected
> behavior.
>
> I expect Vista Search to find the task item if I put any single word from
> the subject or any combination of the words. This is especially true when
> dealing with File Names or in this case the Subject of the task. I believe I
> found this same problem previously when searching for a specific file and I
> entered several words in the file name and did not find the file, but I did
> not narrow down the issue at that time.
>
> I am using Vista Home Premium 32 with all the latest updates and Outlook
> 2003 with SP3.
>


What happens if you click start orb> Search to open the Search window and
search from there? Or use the Search field in an Explorer window?

Curious because I've run into similar situations -searches missed by the
initial search field in the start menu (the one right above the start orb).
In fact, I sometimes see items that were deleted days ago. It's unwelcome
extra steps to use alternative starting points for search but so far it
*seems* to give better results. Could be my imagination though Like you,
I'm still examining Search. There's things I definitely like about it and
things that I find frustrating...

Another thought: If you don't know already, find out where Outlook Tasks
are stored. I think they're in the .PST file but am not positive. Outlook
is your email program but it stores more than email. Tasks are not email,
they're additional data that Outlook handles. If you look at Indexing
Options> Advanced Options> File Types, you'll see that .PST is NOT included
in the index. I'm thinking if you add .PST to your indexing, that you might
be able to get that XBox search done more efficiently. NOTE: If Vista
doesn't re-index automatically in a timely manner, you can tell it to
rebuild the index manually.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2007
Jim
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista Search functionality
I have my .pst indexed which is validated by the fact that I can find the
item I'm looking for if I use the right search phrase.

To further the test search for my Outlook task called Xbox 360 Games, I
tried searching for Xbox Games from an explorer window on my Computer and
after a couple minutes (I think it looks on non-indexed locations) it did not
find the Task item. I tried the same search from the search window for
Indexed Locations and got the same results.

I think the solution is for the indexer to prioritize individual words and
word combinations from title information such as file names, email subject,
task subject or even header information in documents. I should be able to
find a document using any single word from the title or any combination of
the words, even if they are not in the same order as the title. For example,
with the subject Xbox 360 Games for my task item, the search for Games does
not find this item - it should.

"Sharon F" wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:26:00 -0700, Jim wrote:
>
> > I've noticed this perceived error before, but I just recently was able to
> > identify the issue.
> >
> > I have a Task item in Microsoft Outlook (this issue is not specific to
> > Outlook tasks, it is a general search issue) with a subject of "Xbox 360
> > Games" - it is a list of games that I am interested in purchasing. If I
> > enter the phrase Xbox 360 Games (without quotes) in the start menu search, no
> > items are found. But if I enter "Xbox 360 Games" (with quotes) in the start
> > menu search, I find the communication item from Outlook tasks. If I search
> > for Xbox 360 (without quotes) the item is found, but if I search for Xbox
> > Games or 360 Games (without quotes) the item is Not found. Very unexpected
> > behavior.
> >
> > I expect Vista Search to find the task item if I put any single word from
> > the subject or any combination of the words. This is especially true when
> > dealing with File Names or in this case the Subject of the task. I believe I
> > found this same problem previously when searching for a specific file and I
> > entered several words in the file name and did not find the file, but I did
> > not narrow down the issue at that time.
> >
> > I am using Vista Home Premium 32 with all the latest updates and Outlook
> > 2003 with SP3.
> >

>
> What happens if you click start orb> Search to open the Search window and
> search from there? Or use the Search field in an Explorer window?
>
> Curious because I've run into similar situations -searches missed by the
> initial search field in the start menu (the one right above the start orb).
> In fact, I sometimes see items that were deleted days ago. It's unwelcome
> extra steps to use alternative starting points for search but so far it
> *seems* to give better results. Could be my imagination though Like you,
> I'm still examining Search. There's things I definitely like about it and
> things that I find frustrating...
>
> Another thought: If you don't know already, find out where Outlook Tasks
> are stored. I think they're in the .PST file but am not positive. Outlook
> is your email program but it stores more than email. Tasks are not email,
> they're additional data that Outlook handles. If you look at Indexing
> Options> Advanced Options> File Types, you'll see that .PST is NOT included
> in the index. I'm thinking if you add .PST to your indexing, that you might
> be able to get that XBox search done more efficiently. NOTE: If Vista
> doesn't re-index automatically in a timely manner, you can tell it to
> rebuild the index manually.
>
> --
> Sharon F
> MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
>

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2007
Sharon F
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista Search functionality
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:10:01 -0700, Jim wrote:

> I have my .pst indexed which is validated by the fact that I can find the
> item I'm looking for if I use the right search phrase.
>
> To further the test search for my Outlook task called Xbox 360 Games, I
> tried searching for Xbox Games from an explorer window on my Computer and
> after a couple minutes (I think it looks on non-indexed locations) it did not
> find the Task item. I tried the same search from the search window for
> Indexed Locations and got the same results.
>
> I think the solution is for the indexer to prioritize individual words and
> word combinations from title information such as file names, email subject,
> task subject or even header information in documents. I should be able to
> find a document using any single word from the title or any combination of
> the words, even if they are not in the same order as the title. For example,
> with the subject Xbox 360 Games for my task item, the search for Games does
> not find this item - it should.
>


Check on the PST file. I have the default settings on my Vista setup for
this item and it is *not* included. Reason: If Vista doesn't find an item
within the indexed items, it stops the search or continues using "grep"
(slower than searching the index) -depending on your settings. Your search
results may be poor because of the secondary search phase.

If PST is changed to be included in index, your results would be straight
out of the index. Maybe not missed and maybe not so demanding with an exact
search phrase.

I'm not saying this will work but it's reasonable to expect this to
increase the "hits" search gets for certain phrases, especially ones
located outside of the normal .eml that it does index/track in Outlook's
database file (.PST). Move that stuff into the index and should be more
prioritized with the initial searches and should happen without having to
add quotes around text strings.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2007
Teri
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista Search functionality
I am having similar problem - I need search to produce good results, the time
it takes to do so isn't as important as finding what I need.

I need to look within all files content to find specific words.

(my co-workers tend to name things Finishes, Finish1, Finish2, etc - I need
to search inside excel file contents for partial address or other id to find
specific finish list for certain projects dating back 20 years - opening each
bland file name to do search within excel file is NOT something I want to do.)

I used to be able to do this no problem with windows 2000, but now with
Vista it is broken for some reason.

I just tried your " trick - but it still doesn't work for me - what am I
doing wrong?

Jim wrote:
> > To further the test search for my Outlook task called Xbox 360 Games, I
> > tried searching for Xbox Games from an explorer window on my Computer and
> > after a couple minutes (I think it looks on non-indexed locations) it did not
> > find the Task item. I tried the same search from the search window for
> > Indexed Locations and got the same results.
> >
> > I think the solution is for the indexer to prioritize individual words and
> > word combinations from title information such as file names, email subject,
> > task subject or even header information in documents. I should be able to
> > find a document using any single word from the title or any combination of
> > the words, even if they are not in the same order as the title. For example,
> > with the subject Xbox 360 Games for my task item, the search for Games does
> > not find this item - it should.
> >

> If PST is changed to be included in index, your results would be straight
> out of the index. Maybe not missed and maybe not so demanding with an exact
> search phrase.
>
> I'm not saying this will work but it's reasonable to expect this to
> increase the "hits" search gets for certain phrases, especially ones
> located outside of the normal .eml that it does index/track in Outlook's
> database file (.PST). Move that stuff into the index and should be more
> prioritized with the initial searches and should happen without having to
> add quotes around text strings.
> Sharon F
> MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2007
Wandering
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista Search functionality
I use Agent Ransack, a freeware download that runs fine my Vista Home Basic
machine. Whenever I am looking for something outside the scope of Windows
Search, or am in a hurry, I use it. It doesn't use an index, but can do the
whole C: drive in about 15 seconds.


"Teri" <Teri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C1F8995B-4EA0-437A-83CF-67179251FFF1@microsoft.com...
>I am having similar problem - I need search to produce good results, the
>time
> it takes to do so isn't as important as finding what I need.
>
> I need to look within all files content to find specific words.
>
> (my co-workers tend to name things Finishes, Finish1, Finish2, etc - I
> need
> to search inside excel file contents for partial address or other id to
> find
> specific finish list for certain projects dating back 20 years - opening
> each
> bland file name to do search within excel file is NOT something I want to
> do.)
>
> I used to be able to do this no problem with windows 2000, but now with
> Vista it is broken for some reason.
>
> I just tried your " trick - but it still doesn't work for me - what am I
> doing wrong?
>
> Jim wrote:
>> > To further the test search for my Outlook task called Xbox 360 Games, I
>> > tried searching for Xbox Games from an explorer window on my Computer
>> > and
>> > after a couple minutes (I think it looks on non-indexed locations) it
>> > did not
>> > find the Task item. I tried the same search from the search window for
>> > Indexed Locations and got the same results.
>> >
>> > I think the solution is for the indexer to prioritize individual words
>> > and
>> > word combinations from title information such as file names, email
>> > subject,
>> > task subject or even header information in documents. I should be able
>> > to
>> > find a document using any single word from the title or any combination
>> > of
>> > the words, even if they are not in the same order as the title. For
>> > example,
>> > with the subject Xbox 360 Games for my task item, the search for Games
>> > does
>> > not find this item - it should.
>> >

>> If PST is changed to be included in index, your results would be straight
>> out of the index. Maybe not missed and maybe not so demanding with an
>> exact
>> search phrase.
>>
>> I'm not saying this will work but it's reasonable to expect this to
>> increase the "hits" search gets for certain phrases, especially ones
>> located outside of the normal .eml that it does index/track in Outlook's
>> database file (.PST). Move that stuff into the index and should be more
>> prioritized with the initial searches and should happen without having to
>> add quotes around text strings.
>> Sharon F
>> MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
>>


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2007
Teri
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista Search functionality
Thanks for the advice
- I think it's really something Vista should do inhouse tho

"Wandering" wrote:

> I use Agent Ransack, a freeware download that runs fine my Vista Home Basic
> machine. Whenever I am looking for something outside the scope of Windows
> Search, or am in a hurry, I use it. It doesn't use an index, but can do the
> whole C: drive in about 15 seconds.
>
>
> "Teri" <Teri@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:C1F8995B-4EA0-437A-83CF-67179251FFF1@microsoft.com...
> >I am having similar problem - I need search to produce good results, the
> >time
> > it takes to do so isn't as important as finding what I need.
> >
> > I need to look within all files content to find specific words.
> >
> > (my co-workers tend to name things Finishes, Finish1, Finish2, etc - I
> > need
> > to search inside excel file contents for partial address or other id to
> > find
> > specific finish list for certain projects dating back 20 years - opening
> > each
> > bland file name to do search within excel file is NOT something I want to
> > do.)
> >
> > I used to be able to do this no problem with windows 2000, but now with
> > Vista it is broken for some reason.
> >
> > I just tried your " trick - but it still doesn't work for me - what am I
> > doing wrong?
> >
> > Jim wrote:
> >> > To further the test search for my Outlook task called Xbox 360 Games, I
> >> > tried searching for Xbox Games from an explorer window on my Computer
> >> > and
> >> > after a couple minutes (I think it looks on non-indexed locations) it
> >> > did not
> >> > find the Task item. I tried the same search from the search window for
> >> > Indexed Locations and got the same results.
> >> >
> >> > I think the solution is for the indexer to prioritize individual words
> >> > and
> >> > word combinations from title information such as file names, email
> >> > subject,
> >> > task subject or even header information in documents. I should be able
> >> > to
> >> > find a document using any single word from the title or any combination
> >> > of
> >> > the words, even if they are not in the same order as the title. For
> >> > example,
> >> > with the subject Xbox 360 Games for my task item, the search for Games
> >> > does
> >> > not find this item - it should.
> >> >
> >> If PST is changed to be included in index, your results would be straight
> >> out of the index. Maybe not missed and maybe not so demanding with an
> >> exact
> >> search phrase.
> >>
> >> I'm not saying this will work but it's reasonable to expect this to
> >> increase the "hits" search gets for certain phrases, especially ones
> >> located outside of the normal .eml that it does index/track in Outlook's
> >> database file (.PST). Move that stuff into the index and should be more
> >> prioritized with the initial searches and should happen without having to
> >> add quotes around text strings.
> >> Sharon F
> >> MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User
> >>

>
>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2007
Brian L Johnson
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Vista Search functionality
Wandering wrote:

> I use Agent Ransack, a freeware download that runs fine my Vista Home
> Basic machine. Whenever I am looking for something outside the scope of
> Windows Search, or am in a hurry, I use it. It doesn't use an index, but
> can do the whole C: drive in about 15 seconds.


Seconded. When you use Agent Ransack, you *know* that the results are
accurate. The problem with Vista's search is that you can never trust a
negative result.

--
-blj-
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