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Deleted files re-appear in VISTA

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2007
will f
 

Posts: n/a
Deleted files re-appear in VISTA
Hi.

I've encountered some very strange behavior while troubleshooting an app,
and would like some help.

I did a complete uninstall of the program. The uninstall removed the
programs directory structure - as it should have.
It deleted the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder.

I then manually re-created the directory structure, C:\Program Files\My
Company\My App Name.
Then, I re-installed the program.

When I browsed to the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder in
Windows Explorer, there were files that I previously deleted from the folder
that were not part of the installation. The files that magically re-appeared
were files that would have been created by the program at run-time - not
during installation. The files were the same as those that were previously
in the folder before the uninstall.

Where did they come from? The uninstall removed the directory and its
contents. I then recreated the folder manually, and could see that the
folder was empty. I did not run the program after installing it, so I did
not perform any operations that would have created the files that were
previously deleted.

Does VISTA cache files that I delete and then restore them? I didn't send
the files to my recycle bin - I permanently (or so I thought) deleted them.
Is there something I can turn off to prevent VISTA from making file
maintenance decisions for me?

Thank you.

- Bill F


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2007
will f
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Deleted files re-appear in VISTA
This gets even more bizzaro. I deleted the MDB file that the app uses for
data. Not recycle bin, but permanently deleted it. The file does not appear
in Windows Explorer. Get this, though. When I open the program, it behaves
as if it is there.



"will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:e8iEk32VHHA.4404@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Hi.
>
> I've encountered some very strange behavior while troubleshooting an app,
> and would like some help.
>
> I did a complete uninstall of the program. The uninstall removed the
> programs directory structure - as it should have.
> It deleted the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder.
>
> I then manually re-created the directory structure, C:\Program Files\My
> Company\My App Name.
> Then, I re-installed the program.
>
> When I browsed to the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder in
> Windows Explorer, there were files that I previously deleted from the
> folder that were not part of the installation. The files that magically
> re-appeared were files that would have been created by the program at
> run-time - not during installation. The files were the same as those that
> were previously in the folder before the uninstall.
>
> Where did they come from? The uninstall removed the directory and its
> contents. I then recreated the folder manually, and could see that the
> folder was empty. I did not run the program after installing it, so I did
> not perform any operations that would have created the files that were
> previously deleted.
>
> Does VISTA cache files that I delete and then restore them? I didn't send
> the files to my recycle bin - I permanently (or so I thought) deleted
> them. Is there something I can turn off to prevent VISTA from making file
> maintenance decisions for me?
>
> Thank you.
>
> - Bill F
>



Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2007
Keith Miller MVP
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Deleted files re-appear in VISTA
Have you looked under:

"C:\Users\<UserName>\AppData\Local\VirtualStor e"?


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

"will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:%23f1l8C3VHHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> This gets even more bizzaro. I deleted the MDB file that the app uses for
> data. Not recycle bin, but permanently deleted it. The file does not
> appear
> in Windows Explorer. Get this, though. When I open the program, it behaves
> as if it is there.
>
>
>
> "will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:e8iEk32VHHA.4404@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Hi.
>>
>> I've encountered some very strange behavior while troubleshooting an app,
>> and would like some help.
>>
>> I did a complete uninstall of the program. The uninstall removed the
>> programs directory structure - as it should have.
>> It deleted the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder.
>>
>> I then manually re-created the directory structure, C:\Program Files\My
>> Company\My App Name.
>> Then, I re-installed the program.
>>
>> When I browsed to the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder in
>> Windows Explorer, there were files that I previously deleted from the
>> folder that were not part of the installation. The files that magically
>> re-appeared were files that would have been created by the program at
>> run-time - not during installation. The files were the same as those that
>> were previously in the folder before the uninstall.
>>
>> Where did they come from? The uninstall removed the directory and its
>> contents. I then recreated the folder manually, and could see that the
>> folder was empty. I did not run the program after installing it, so I did
>> not perform any operations that would have created the files that were
>> previously deleted.
>>
>> Does VISTA cache files that I delete and then restore them? I didn't send
>> the files to my recycle bin - I permanently (or so I thought) deleted
>> them. Is there something I can turn off to prevent VISTA from making file
>> maintenance decisions for me?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> - Bill F
>>

>
>


Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2007
will f
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Deleted files re-appear in VISTA
Keith,

Many thanks. Deleting the files from the Virtual Store dir was the trick. My
app wasn't actually using the directories layed down by the app's installer.
I've begun reading up on this Virtual Store business, and I'm not sure what
i think of it. If my user account has administrative credentials, then I'd
like to assume that whatever I run will run under the same creds.

This is going to confuse a lot of people, I think. I'll be taking support
calls from people who don't know whether they're running their app as
administrator or not, so I won't know which directories to direct them to,
etc. I also support an app where peer-to-peer users share their local
Program Files\App\Data folder so other users can share data. I can see that
if they do this, the remote users will be accessing a different file than
the one actually used by the local user in her Virtual Store dir.

I'm anticipating a lot of confised users calling our support techs.

Thanks again.

- will f

"Keith Miller MVP" <k.miller79@no.spam.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:esP8ta3VHHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Have you looked under:
>
> "C:\Users\<UserName>\AppData\Local\VirtualStor e"?
>
>
> --
> Good Luck,
>
> Keith
> Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]
>
> "will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:%23f1l8C3VHHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> This gets even more bizzaro. I deleted the MDB file that the app uses for
>> data. Not recycle bin, but permanently deleted it. The file does not
>> appear
>> in Windows Explorer. Get this, though. When I open the program, it
>> behaves
>> as if it is there.
>>
>>
>>
>> "will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:e8iEk32VHHA.4404@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I've encountered some very strange behavior while troubleshooting an
>>> app, and would like some help.
>>>
>>> I did a complete uninstall of the program. The uninstall removed the
>>> programs directory structure - as it should have.
>>> It deleted the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder.
>>>
>>> I then manually re-created the directory structure, C:\Program Files\My
>>> Company\My App Name.
>>> Then, I re-installed the program.
>>>
>>> When I browsed to the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder in
>>> Windows Explorer, there were files that I previously deleted from the
>>> folder that were not part of the installation. The files that magically
>>> re-appeared were files that would have been created by the program at
>>> run-time - not during installation. The files were the same as those
>>> that were previously in the folder before the uninstall.
>>>
>>> Where did they come from? The uninstall removed the directory and its
>>> contents. I then recreated the folder manually, and could see that the
>>> folder was empty. I did not run the program after installing it, so I
>>> did not perform any operations that would have created the files that
>>> were previously deleted.
>>>
>>> Does VISTA cache files that I delete and then restore them? I didn't
>>> send the files to my recycle bin - I permanently (or so I thought)
>>> deleted them. Is there something I can turn off to prevent VISTA from
>>> making file maintenance decisions for me?
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> - Bill F
>>>

>>
>>

>



Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2007
Keith Miller MVP
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Deleted files re-appear in VISTA
One thing that might be useful in handling those calls:

If you type:

shell:local appdata

in either a 'Run...' dialog or the 'Start Search' box on the Start menu, it
will open an Explorer window to that users 'AppData' folder, the parent of
VirtualStore.


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

"will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:%2367pZI4VHHA.1636@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Keith,
>
> Many thanks. Deleting the files from the Virtual Store dir was the trick.
> My app wasn't actually using the directories layed down by the app's
> installer. I've begun reading up on this Virtual Store business, and I'm
> not sure what i think of it. If my user account has administrative
> credentials, then I'd like to assume that whatever I run will run under
> the same creds.
>
> This is going to confuse a lot of people, I think. I'll be taking support
> calls from people who don't know whether they're running their app as
> administrator or not, so I won't know which directories to direct them to,
> etc. I also support an app where peer-to-peer users share their local
> Program Files\App\Data folder so other users can share data. I can see
> that if they do this, the remote users will be accessing a different file
> than the one actually used by the local user in her Virtual Store dir.
>
> I'm anticipating a lot of confised users calling our support techs.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> - will f
>
> "Keith Miller MVP" <k.miller79@no.spam.verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:esP8ta3VHHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Have you looked under:
>>
>> "C:\Users\<UserName>\AppData\Local\VirtualStor e"?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Keith
>> Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]
>>
>> "will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:%23f1l8C3VHHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> This gets even more bizzaro. I deleted the MDB file that the app uses
>>> for
>>> data. Not recycle bin, but permanently deleted it. The file does not
>>> appear
>>> in Windows Explorer. Get this, though. When I open the program, it
>>> behaves
>>> as if it is there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:e8iEk32VHHA.4404@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> I've encountered some very strange behavior while troubleshooting an
>>>> app, and would like some help.
>>>>
>>>> I did a complete uninstall of the program. The uninstall removed the
>>>> programs directory structure - as it should have.
>>>> It deleted the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder.
>>>>
>>>> I then manually re-created the directory structure, C:\Program Files\My
>>>> Company\My App Name.
>>>> Then, I re-installed the program.
>>>>
>>>> When I browsed to the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder in
>>>> Windows Explorer, there were files that I previously deleted from the
>>>> folder that were not part of the installation. The files that magically
>>>> re-appeared were files that would have been created by the program at
>>>> run-time - not during installation. The files were the same as those
>>>> that were previously in the folder before the uninstall.
>>>>
>>>> Where did they come from? The uninstall removed the directory and its
>>>> contents. I then recreated the folder manually, and could see that the
>>>> folder was empty. I did not run the program after installing it, so I
>>>> did not perform any operations that would have created the files that
>>>> were previously deleted.
>>>>
>>>> Does VISTA cache files that I delete and then restore them? I didn't
>>>> send the files to my recycle bin - I permanently (or so I thought)
>>>> deleted them. Is there something I can turn off to prevent VISTA from
>>>> making file maintenance decisions for me?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> - Bill F
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>

>
>


Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2007
Dave Wood [MS]
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Deleted files re-appear in VISTA
Remember that the main use for the virtual store directories is to avoid
breaking legacy apps that relied on having write access to locations that
only admins have access to. The hope is that in the future the number of
apps that need to do this will diminish ...

"will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:%2367pZI4VHHA.1636@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Keith,
>
> Many thanks. Deleting the files from the Virtual Store dir was the trick.
> My app wasn't actually using the directories layed down by the app's
> installer. I've begun reading up on this Virtual Store business, and I'm
> not sure what i think of it. If my user account has administrative
> credentials, then I'd like to assume that whatever I run will run under
> the same creds.
>
> This is going to confuse a lot of people, I think. I'll be taking support
> calls from people who don't know whether they're running their app as
> administrator or not, so I won't know which directories to direct them to,
> etc. I also support an app where peer-to-peer users share their local
> Program Files\App\Data folder so other users can share data. I can see
> that if they do this, the remote users will be accessing a different file
> than the one actually used by the local user in her Virtual Store dir.
>
> I'm anticipating a lot of confised users calling our support techs.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> - will f
>
> "Keith Miller MVP" <k.miller79@no.spam.verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:esP8ta3VHHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Have you looked under:
>>
>> "C:\Users\<UserName>\AppData\Local\VirtualStor e"?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Keith
>> Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]
>>
>> "will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:%23f1l8C3VHHA.4964@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> This gets even more bizzaro. I deleted the MDB file that the app uses
>>> for
>>> data. Not recycle bin, but permanently deleted it. The file does not
>>> appear
>>> in Windows Explorer. Get this, though. When I open the program, it
>>> behaves
>>> as if it is there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "will f" <null@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:e8iEk32VHHA.4404@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> I've encountered some very strange behavior while troubleshooting an
>>>> app, and would like some help.
>>>>
>>>> I did a complete uninstall of the program. The uninstall removed the
>>>> programs directory structure - as it should have.
>>>> It deleted the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder.
>>>>
>>>> I then manually re-created the directory structure, C:\Program Files\My
>>>> Company\My App Name.
>>>> Then, I re-installed the program.
>>>>
>>>> When I browsed to the C:\Program Files\My Company\My App Name folder in
>>>> Windows Explorer, there were files that I previously deleted from the
>>>> folder that were not part of the installation. The files that magically
>>>> re-appeared were files that would have been created by the program at
>>>> run-time - not during installation. The files were the same as those
>>>> that were previously in the folder before the uninstall.
>>>>
>>>> Where did they come from? The uninstall removed the directory and its
>>>> contents. I then recreated the folder manually, and could see that the
>>>> folder was empty. I did not run the program after installing it, so I
>>>> did not perform any operations that would have created the files that
>>>> were previously deleted.
>>>>
>>>> Does VISTA cache files that I delete and then restore them? I didn't
>>>> send the files to my recycle bin - I permanently (or so I thought)
>>>> deleted them. Is there something I can turn off to prevent VISTA from
>>>> making file maintenance decisions for me?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> - Bill F
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>

>
>


Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2007
Keith Miller MVP
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Deleted files re-appear in VISTA
"Keith Miller MVP" <k.miller79@no.spam.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:e7G9r45VHHA.4568@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

> will open an Explorer window to that users 'AppData' folder, the parent of


should be:

....to that user's 'AppData'...

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2007
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Deleted files re-appear in VISTA
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:55:54 -0800, "Dave Wood [MS]"

>Remember that the main use for the virtual store directories is to avoid
>breaking legacy apps that relied on having write access to locations that
>only admins have access to. The hope is that in the future the number of
>apps that need to do this will diminish ...


In particular, no-one should be writing data under "Program Files"
anymore. That's been bad practice for over 5 years now!

Data locations should always be user-redirectable, kept free of
infectable code, and if they have to default somewhere, then either
(My )Documents for general files that are open to arbitrary apps, or
AppData for data that only one app can ever use.

For multi-user access, there's AllUsers (i.e. Shared data), which is
now Public. I guess if you use %Labels% you'd be OK, preferably to
populate an install-time default the user can override.



>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use!
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -

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