IE8/Vista - Opacity not honored on large elements

The IE8 opacity filter [e.g. filter:alpha(opacity=40);] does not seem to
render transparent elements, when the size of the element exceeds a certain
size threshold.

What this threshold is may be a function of graphic card resources/drivers.
The element renders as if the opacity filter were not applied (or set to 100%
opaque)

We've seen this problem on the IE 8.0.6001.18828 build for Vista. Build IE
8.0.6001.18702/Win XP doesn't have the problem.

The following report contains some example URLS where we're seeing this issue:

http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui2/ticket/2528621

- Is this something which anyone has come across?
- A known issue, solvable through IE8/Vista's display settings perhaps?
- Is there a public bug tracking system for IE8 where I can file (or search
for) the issue with Microsoft?

Regards,
Satyen

BTW, I haven't tested if changing to -ms-filter with the progid long form
changes anything, but from what i understand it shouldn't [ the filter
implementation ends up being the same ]. I'll try this and post back if it
impacts anything.

Hi Satyen,

It depends on your chosen Doctype schema and whether or not you are using
the IE7 emulation meta tag.

This works in all browsers,

-ms-filter: 'Alpha(Opacity=55)';opacity: 0.55;-moz-opacity: 0.55;filter:
alpha(opacity=55);-khtml-opacity: 0.55;

Regards.

"Satyen Desai" <Satyen Desai@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F14D2F90-51BD-4545-A206-09FEE2EA00A5@microsoft.com...
> The IE8 opacity filter [e.g. filter:alpha(opacity=40);] does not seem to
> render transparent elements, when the size of the element exceeds a
> certain
> size threshold.
>
> What this threshold is may be a function of graphic card
> resources/drivers.
> The element renders as if the opacity filter were not applied (or set to
> 100%
> opaque)
>
> We've seen this problem on the IE 8.0.6001.18828 build for Vista. Build IE
> 8.0.6001.18702/Win XP doesn't have the problem.
>
> The following report contains some example URLS where we're seeing this
> issue:
>
> http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui2/ticket/2528621
>
> - Is this something which anyone has come across?
> - A known issue, solvable through IE8/Vista's display settings perhaps?
> - Is there a public bug tracking system for IE8 where I can file (or
> search
> for) the issue with Microsoft?
>
> Regards,
> Satyen
>
> BTW, I haven't tested if changing to -ms-filter with the progid long form
> changes anything, but from what i understand it shouldn't [ the filter
> implementation ends up being the same ]. I'll try this and post back if it
> impacts anything.
>

Hey Rob,
Thanks for the input, however I don't believe it's the CSS parsing which is
the issue here.

To clarify...

Sticking with IE 8.0.6001.18828/Vista, IE8 Standards Mode, Strict Doctype,
the following property/value:

filter:alpha(opacity=20);

Works fine for a DIV which is 100x100px, making it partially transparent.

However if I make the DIV larger (say 5000x5000px as an example, although I
haven't established the actual threshold), it fails, and makes it completely
opaque.

Hence my assumption was that it's something related to the actual filter
implementation, and Vista's graphics libraries or the graphic card drivers,
since I don't see the problem on IE8/WinXP.

Here's a test page (don't currently have access to Vista, so not sure if it
makes the DIV big enough to fail, but hopefully shows what I'm getting at -
at some point, the DIV will turn black):

http://yuiblog.com/sandbox/ie8_bugs/largeOpacity.html

Regards,
Satyen

"rob^_^" wrote:

> Hi Satyen,
>
> It depends on your chosen Doctype schema and whether or not you are using
> the IE7 emulation meta tag.
>
> This works in all browsers,
>
> -ms-filter: 'Alpha(Opacity=55)';opacity: 0.55;-moz-opacity: 0.55;filter:
> alpha(opacity=55);-khtml-opacity: 0.55;
>
> Regards.
>
> "Satyen Desai" <Satyen Desai@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:F14D2F90-51BD-4545-A206-09FEE2EA00A5@microsoft.com...
> > The IE8 opacity filter [e.g. filter:alpha(opacity=40);] does not seem to
> > render transparent elements, when the size of the element exceeds a
> > certain
> > size threshold.
> >
> > What this threshold is may be a function of graphic card
> > resources/drivers.
> > The element renders as if the opacity filter were not applied (or set to
> > 100%
> > opaque)
> >
> > We've seen this problem on the IE 8.0.6001.18828 build for Vista. Build IE
> > 8.0.6001.18702/Win XP doesn't have the problem.
> >
> > The following report contains some example URLS where we're seeing this
> > issue:
> >
> > http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui2/ticket/2528621
> >
> > - Is this something which anyone has come across?
> > - A known issue, solvable through IE8/Vista's display settings perhaps?
> > - Is there a public bug tracking system for IE8 where I can file (or
> > search
> > for) the issue with Microsoft?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Satyen
> >
> > BTW, I haven't tested if changing to -ms-filter with the progid long form
> > changes anything, but from what i understand it shouldn't [ the filter
> > implementation ends up being the same ]. I'll try this and post back if it
> > impacts anything.
> >

Some additional feedback.

It fails precisely when the height of the element crosses 2048 (for a laptop
with ATI card X), or 4096 (for a desktop with ATI card Y) based on some
testing I asked a user to try.

See: http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui2/ticket/2528621

So it definitely seems like a logic bug (as opposed to a resource
utilization bug) with IE8, Vista's graphics stack, and possibly the graphics
card drivers (I only have access to ATI cards currently so don't know if it
happens with other cards).

I'd like to file it with MS, if anyone knows how.

Thanks,
Satyen

"Satyen Desai" wrote:

> Hey Rob,
> Thanks for the input, however I don't believe it's the CSS parsing which is
> the issue here.
>
> To clarify...
>
> Sticking with IE 8.0.6001.18828/Vista, IE8 Standards Mode, Strict Doctype,
> the following property/value:
>
> filter:alpha(opacity=20);
>
> Works fine for a DIV which is 100x100px, making it partially transparent.
>
> However if I make the DIV larger (say 5000x5000px as an example, although I
> haven't established the actual threshold), it fails, and makes it completely
> opaque.
>
> Hence my assumption was that it's something related to the actual filter
> implementation, and Vista's graphics libraries or the graphic card drivers,
> since I don't see the problem on IE8/WinXP.
>
> Here's a test page (don't currently have access to Vista, so not sure if it
> makes the DIV big enough to fail, but hopefully shows what I'm getting at -
> at some point, the DIV will turn black):
>
> http://yuiblog.com/sandbox/ie8_bugs/largeOpacity.html
>
> Regards,
> Satyen
>
> "rob^_^" wrote:
>
> > Hi Satyen,
> >
> > It depends on your chosen Doctype schema and whether or not you are using
> > the IE7 emulation meta tag.
> >
> > This works in all browsers,
> >
> > -ms-filter: 'Alpha(Opacity=55)';opacity: 0.55;-moz-opacity: 0.55;filter:
> > alpha(opacity=55);-khtml-opacity: 0.55;
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > "Satyen Desai" <Satyen Desai@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:F14D2F90-51BD-4545-A206-09FEE2EA00A5@microsoft.com...
> > > The IE8 opacity filter [e.g. filter:alpha(opacity=40);] does not seem to
> > > render transparent elements, when the size of the element exceeds a
> > > certain
> > > size threshold.
> > >
> > > What this threshold is may be a function of graphic card
> > > resources/drivers.
> > > The element renders as if the opacity filter were not applied (or set to
> > > 100%
> > > opaque)
> > >
> > > We've seen this problem on the IE 8.0.6001.18828 build for Vista. Build IE
> > > 8.0.6001.18702/Win XP doesn't have the problem.
> > >
> > > The following report contains some example URLS where we're seeing this
> > > issue:
> > >
> > > http://yuilibrary.com/projects/yui2/ticket/2528621
> > >
> > > - Is this something which anyone has come across?
> > > - A known issue, solvable through IE8/Vista's display settings perhaps?
> > > - Is there a public bug tracking system for IE8 where I can file (or
> > > search
> > > for) the issue with Microsoft?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Satyen
> > >
> > > BTW, I haven't tested if changing to -ms-filter with the progid long form
> > > changes anything, but from what i understand it shouldn't [ the filter
> > > implementation ends up being the same ]. I'll try this and post back if it
> > > impacts anything.
> > >

Any luck filing this with Microsoft, Satyen?

I'm experiencing the same issue with my system:
Vista 32bit
IE8 8.0.6001.18828
ATI Radeon 1250

I've installed the latest ATI-drivers, but problem still present.

Thanks for pinning this down, I was about going mental trying to figure out
this one. Seems to me that Microsoft has some work to do here.

Regards,
Gorank

Hmmm.. Could it be ATI is the one with some work to do after all?
I've just tested at a colleague's machine, and it rendered the opacity just
fine.

His spec's:
Vista 32bit
IE8 8.0.6001.18828
NVidia Quadro FX 570M

Regards,
Gorank

Sorry for the late reply, for some reason didn't see email notifications for
your posts.

We contacted some folks to try and get this filed with MS, nothing concrete
back yet. Thanks for the info about the NVidia card. Maybe worth filing it
with ATI too, although MS probably has the ability to have vendors fix bugs
quicker than if it was filed externally.

Regards,
Satyen

"Gorank" wrote:

>
> Hmmm.. Could it be ATI is the one with some work to do after all?
> I've just tested at a colleague's machine, and it rendered the opacity just
> fine.
>
> His spec's:
> Vista 32bit
> IE8 8.0.6001.18828
> NVidia Quadro FX 570M
>
> Regards,
> Gorank
>