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Company portal issues

microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general






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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2009
scj6771
 

Posts: n/a
Company portal issues
We have issues with our sales force accessing our company portal on the road,
they are connecting using a VPN client usually through the Verizon aircard we
give them.

The portal will work fine perhaps for a few days but eventually they will
get the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message.

The real problem is that they have no way of fixing this when on the road,
however, once the machine is brought back and "jacked" into our network we
can fix it doing the following:

1. From Internet Explorer go to “Tools” then “Internet Options”
2. Then click on “Delete”.
3. Then click on “Delete All” and select “Yes” at the next box.
4. Then select the “Security” tab at the top and select “Local intranet” then
“Sites”
5. Then add "company portal address" and select “Add” to drop it into the
box and then “Close”.
6. Then select the “Content” tab at the top and select the “Clear SSL State”
tab.
7. Then select the “Advanced” tab and scroll to the bottom and make sure
that USE SSL2.0, USE SSL 3.0 and USE TLS 1.0 are all selected.
8. Then select “Ok” at the bottom, close out of the internet and REBOOT your
machine.

***EDIT***
Now it seems that a run IPCONFIG /FLUSHDNS will work without doing the above
mentioned.

Now these options are not working for the sales force when they are on the
road and connected to our network via the VPN. This causes big issues when
these guys have to travel to corporate just to be able to access the company
portal.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2009
Robert Aldwinckle
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Company portal issues
(cross-post added to XP Networking)
"scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:A58E72D2-127D-4634-B577-CACCDFD01A74@microsoft.com...
> We have issues with our sales force accessing our company portal on the road,
> they are connecting using a VPN client usually through the Verizon aircard we
> give them.
>
> The portal will work fine perhaps for a few days but eventually they will
> get the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message.
>
> The real problem is that they have no way of fixing this when on the road,
> however, once the machine is brought back and "jacked" into our network we
> can fix it doing the following:
>
> 1. From Internet Explorer go to "Tools" then "Internet Options"
> 2. Then click on "Delete".
> 3. Then click on "Delete All" and select "Yes" at the next box.
> 4. Then select the "Security" tab at the top and select "Local intranet" then
> "Sites"
> 5. Then add "company portal address" and select "Add" to drop it into the
> box and then "Close".
> 6. Then select the "Content" tab at the top and select the "Clear SSL State"
> tab.
> 7. Then select the "Advanced" tab and scroll to the bottom and make sure
> that USE SSL2.0, USE SSL 3.0 and USE TLS 1.0 are all selected.
> 8. Then select "Ok" at the bottom, close out of the internet and REBOOT your
> machine.
>


> ***EDIT***
> Now it seems that a run IPCONFIG /FLUSHDNS will work without doing the above
> mentioned.



Have you tried to diagnose why that helps? All it means is that either
something is adding obsolete entries to the HOSTS file or you have too
long a TTL for the DNS A Record. In the latter case I would expect
that to only be an issue if the machine was not being rebooted, so that
would make me wonder if Hibernate was being used to avoid a reboot.

Are sales team members authorized to do that ipconfig command?
Then you could also ask them to capture an ipconfig /displaydns
before doing it in order to try to gather enough information to determine
what the real problem is.


>
> Now these options are not working for the sales force when they are on the
> road and connected to our network via the VPN. This causes big issues when
> these guys have to travel to corporate just to be able to access the company
> portal.



BTW this is probably more to do with the OS Networking than with IE.
I have guessed that XP may be involved (e.g. easier on it to issue
the ipconfig command <w>) and am cross-posting this to XP Networking.


Good luck

Robert Aldwinckle
---


Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2009
scj6771
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Company portal issues
I don't know, I just dont get it, why would the portal work fine for in-house
users and not the "road warriors"? in fact, I have a whole center down the
road that cant access it either? and no IPCONFIG/FLUSHDNS fixes those
machines, they just flat out will not connect to the portal.

If the user brings it in-house to get repaired I simply run that command,
then I test the connection by using the airard and VPN and it works all day
long? As soon as they take the machine out of the building it may work once
or twice but it WILL FAIL. Now I should also mention that most of these guys
are using thier own wireless connection either at home or on the road, these
guys live off "borrowed" wireless connections. So I was thinking that may
have something to do with it?




"Robert Aldwinckle" wrote:

> (cross-post added to XP Networking)
> "scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:A58E72D2-127D-4634-B577-CACCDFD01A74@microsoft.com...
> > We have issues with our sales force accessing our company portal on the road,
> > they are connecting using a VPN client usually through the Verizon aircard we
> > give them.
> >
> > The portal will work fine perhaps for a few days but eventually they will
> > get the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message.
> >
> > The real problem is that they have no way of fixing this when on the road,
> > however, once the machine is brought back and "jacked" into our network we
> > can fix it doing the following:
> >
> > 1. From Internet Explorer go to "Tools" then "Internet Options"
> > 2. Then click on "Delete".
> > 3. Then click on "Delete All" and select "Yes" at the next box.
> > 4. Then select the "Security" tab at the top and select "Local intranet" then
> > "Sites"
> > 5. Then add "company portal address" and select "Add" to drop it into the
> > box and then "Close".
> > 6. Then select the "Content" tab at the top and select the "Clear SSL State"
> > tab.
> > 7. Then select the "Advanced" tab and scroll to the bottom and make sure
> > that USE SSL2.0, USE SSL 3.0 and USE TLS 1.0 are all selected.
> > 8. Then select "Ok" at the bottom, close out of the internet and REBOOT your
> > machine.
> >

>
> > ***EDIT***
> > Now it seems that a run IPCONFIG /FLUSHDNS will work without doing the above
> > mentioned.

>
>
> Have you tried to diagnose why that helps? All it means is that either
> something is adding obsolete entries to the HOSTS file or you have too
> long a TTL for the DNS A Record. In the latter case I would expect
> that to only be an issue if the machine was not being rebooted, so that
> would make me wonder if Hibernate was being used to avoid a reboot.
>
> Are sales team members authorized to do that ipconfig command?
> Then you could also ask them to capture an ipconfig /displaydns
> before doing it in order to try to gather enough information to determine
> what the real problem is.
>
>
> >
> > Now these options are not working for the sales force when they are on the
> > road and connected to our network via the VPN. This causes big issues when
> > these guys have to travel to corporate just to be able to access the company
> > portal.

>
>
> BTW this is probably more to do with the OS Networking than with IE.
> I have guessed that XP may be involved (e.g. easier on it to issue
> the ipconfig command <w>) and am cross-posting this to XP Networking.
>
>
> Good luck
>
> Robert Aldwinckle
> ---
>
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2009
scj6771
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Company portal issues
Anyone? I have posted this twice in the last year and get the same results?

"scj6771" wrote:

> I don't know, I just dont get it, why would the portal work fine for in-house
> users and not the "road warriors"? in fact, I have a whole center down the
> road that cant access it either? and no IPCONFIG/FLUSHDNS fixes those
> machines, they just flat out will not connect to the portal.
>
> If the user brings it in-house to get repaired I simply run that command,
> then I test the connection by using the airard and VPN and it works all day
> long? As soon as they take the machine out of the building it may work once
> or twice but it WILL FAIL. Now I should also mention that most of these guys
> are using thier own wireless connection either at home or on the road, these
> guys live off "borrowed" wireless connections. So I was thinking that may
> have something to do with it?
>
>
>
>
> "Robert Aldwinckle" wrote:
>
> > (cross-post added to XP Networking)
> > "scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:A58E72D2-127D-4634-B577-CACCDFD01A74@microsoft.com...
> > > We have issues with our sales force accessing our company portal on the road,
> > > they are connecting using a VPN client usually through the Verizon aircard we
> > > give them.
> > >
> > > The portal will work fine perhaps for a few days but eventually they will
> > > get the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message.
> > >
> > > The real problem is that they have no way of fixing this when on the road,
> > > however, once the machine is brought back and "jacked" into our network we
> > > can fix it doing the following:
> > >
> > > 1. From Internet Explorer go to "Tools" then "Internet Options"
> > > 2. Then click on "Delete".
> > > 3. Then click on "Delete All" and select "Yes" at the next box.
> > > 4. Then select the "Security" tab at the top and select "Local intranet" then
> > > "Sites"
> > > 5. Then add "company portal address" and select "Add" to drop it into the
> > > box and then "Close".
> > > 6. Then select the "Content" tab at the top and select the "Clear SSL State"
> > > tab.
> > > 7. Then select the "Advanced" tab and scroll to the bottom and make sure
> > > that USE SSL2.0, USE SSL 3.0 and USE TLS 1.0 are all selected.
> > > 8. Then select "Ok" at the bottom, close out of the internet and REBOOT your
> > > machine.
> > >

> >
> > > ***EDIT***
> > > Now it seems that a run IPCONFIG /FLUSHDNS will work without doing the above
> > > mentioned.

> >
> >
> > Have you tried to diagnose why that helps? All it means is that either
> > something is adding obsolete entries to the HOSTS file or you have too
> > long a TTL for the DNS A Record. In the latter case I would expect
> > that to only be an issue if the machine was not being rebooted, so that
> > would make me wonder if Hibernate was being used to avoid a reboot.
> >
> > Are sales team members authorized to do that ipconfig command?
> > Then you could also ask them to capture an ipconfig /displaydns
> > before doing it in order to try to gather enough information to determine
> > what the real problem is.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Now these options are not working for the sales force when they are on the
> > > road and connected to our network via the VPN. This causes big issues when
> > > these guys have to travel to corporate just to be able to access the company
> > > portal.

> >
> >
> > BTW this is probably more to do with the OS Networking than with IE.
> > I have guessed that XP may be involved (e.g. easier on it to issue
> > the ipconfig command <w>) and am cross-posting this to XP Networking.
> >
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > Robert Aldwinckle
> > ---
> >
> >
> >

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2009
Robert Aldwinckle
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Company portal issues

"scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:6EE0F46C-A0D6-4EED-ACD3-32E970450980@microsoft.com...
>I don't know, I just dont get it, why would the portal work fine for in-house
> users and not the "road warriors"?



Perhaps they don't use Hibernate? <eg>


> in fact, I have a whole center down the
> road that cant access it either?


> and no IPCONFIG/FLUSHDNS fixes those
> machines, they just flat out will not connect to the portal.



which suggests they have a different symptom cause.
What other diagnostics are you gathering?


>
> If the user brings it in-house to get repaired I simply run that command,
> then I test the connection by using the airard and VPN and it works all day
> long?



Because they aren't allowed to do that? Because you are logging on
with a different userid?


> As soon as they take the machine out of the building it may work once
> or twice but it WILL FAIL. Now I should also mention that most of these guys
> are using thier own wireless connection either at home or on the road, these
> guys live off "borrowed" wireless connections. So I was thinking that may
> have something to do with it?



That could certainly change their connectivity. ; }


HTH

Robert
---


>
>
>
>
> "Robert Aldwinckle" wrote:
>
>> (cross-post added to XP Networking)
>> "scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:A58E72D2-127D-4634-B577-CACCDFD01A74@microsoft.com...
>> > We have issues with our sales force accessing our company portal on the road,
>> > they are connecting using a VPN client usually through the Verizon aircard we
>> > give them.
>> >
>> > The portal will work fine perhaps for a few days but eventually they will
>> > get the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message.
>> >
>> > The real problem is that they have no way of fixing this when on the road,
>> > however, once the machine is brought back and "jacked" into our network we
>> > can fix it doing the following:
>> >
>> > 1. From Internet Explorer go to "Tools" then "Internet Options"
>> > 2. Then click on "Delete".
>> > 3. Then click on "Delete All" and select "Yes" at the next box.
>> > 4. Then select the "Security" tab at the top and select "Local intranet" then
>> > "Sites"
>> > 5. Then add "company portal address" and select "Add" to drop it into the
>> > box and then "Close".
>> > 6. Then select the "Content" tab at the top and select the "Clear SSL State"
>> > tab.
>> > 7. Then select the "Advanced" tab and scroll to the bottom and make sure
>> > that USE SSL2.0, USE SSL 3.0 and USE TLS 1.0 are all selected.
>> > 8. Then select "Ok" at the bottom, close out of the internet and REBOOT your
>> > machine.
>> >

>>
>> > ***EDIT***
>> > Now it seems that a run IPCONFIG /FLUSHDNS will work without doing the above
>> > mentioned.

>>
>>
>> Have you tried to diagnose why that helps? All it means is that either
>> something is adding obsolete entries to the HOSTS file or you have too
>> long a TTL for the DNS A Record. In the latter case I would expect
>> that to only be an issue if the machine was not being rebooted, so that
>> would make me wonder if Hibernate was being used to avoid a reboot.
>>
>> Are sales team members authorized to do that ipconfig command?
>> Then you could also ask them to capture an ipconfig /displaydns
>> before doing it in order to try to gather enough information to determine
>> what the real problem is.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Now these options are not working for the sales force when they are on the
>> > road and connected to our network via the VPN. This causes big issues when
>> > these guys have to travel to corporate just to be able to access the company
>> > portal.

>>
>>
>> BTW this is probably more to do with the OS Networking than with IE.
>> I have guessed that XP may be involved (e.g. easier on it to issue
>> the ipconfig command <w>) and am cross-posting this to XP Networking.
>>
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>> Robert Aldwinckle
>> ---
>>
>>
>>



Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2009
scj6771
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Company portal issues
1. Not sure what hibernate has to do with this? But they do reboot?

2. Thw other center is on our network but connects back using Time Warner?

3. Yes they are allowed to run that command and I log onto the machine as
the user to do it.

4. I am pretty sure this has nothing to do or perhaps very little with VPN
and the aircard connection, but really it should not matter what wireless
connection they are using, all they need to do is get to the main webpage
(which they can do) and from there click on the "Employee Zone" that's where
it fails on the road.

If I do a IPCONFIG /DISPLAYDNS the entries are present for both working and
non-working machines.

"Robert Aldwinckle" wrote:

>
> "scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:6EE0F46C-A0D6-4EED-ACD3-32E970450980@microsoft.com...
> >I don't know, I just dont get it, why would the portal work fine for in-house
> > users and not the "road warriors"?

>
>
> Perhaps they don't use Hibernate? <eg>
>
>
> > in fact, I have a whole center down the
> > road that cant access it either?

>
> > and no IPCONFIG/FLUSHDNS fixes those
> > machines, they just flat out will not connect to the portal.

>
>
> which suggests they have a different symptom cause.
> What other diagnostics are you gathering?
>
>
> >
> > If the user brings it in-house to get repaired I simply run that command,
> > then I test the connection by using the airard and VPN and it works all day
> > long?

>
>
> Because they aren't allowed to do that? Because you are logging on
> with a different userid?
>
>
> > As soon as they take the machine out of the building it may work once
> > or twice but it WILL FAIL. Now I should also mention that most of these guys
> > are using thier own wireless connection either at home or on the road, these
> > guys live off "borrowed" wireless connections. So I was thinking that may
> > have something to do with it?

>
>
> That could certainly change their connectivity. ; }
>
>
> HTH
>
> Robert
> ---
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Robert Aldwinckle" wrote:
> >
> >> (cross-post added to XP Networking)
> >> "scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:A58E72D2-127D-4634-B577-CACCDFD01A74@microsoft.com...
> >> > We have issues with our sales force accessing our company portal on the road,
> >> > they are connecting using a VPN client usually through the Verizon aircard we
> >> > give them.
> >> >
> >> > The portal will work fine perhaps for a few days but eventually they will
> >> > get the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message.
> >> >
> >> > The real problem is that they have no way of fixing this when on the road,
> >> > however, once the machine is brought back and "jacked" into our network we
> >> > can fix it doing the following:
> >> >
> >> > 1. From Internet Explorer go to "Tools" then "Internet Options"
> >> > 2. Then click on "Delete".
> >> > 3. Then click on "Delete All" and select "Yes" at the next box.
> >> > 4. Then select the "Security" tab at the top and select "Local intranet" then
> >> > "Sites"
> >> > 5. Then add "company portal address" and select "Add" to drop it into the
> >> > box and then "Close".
> >> > 6. Then select the "Content" tab at the top and select the "Clear SSL State"
> >> > tab.
> >> > 7. Then select the "Advanced" tab and scroll to the bottom and make sure
> >> > that USE SSL2.0, USE SSL 3.0 and USE TLS 1.0 are all selected.
> >> > 8. Then select "Ok" at the bottom, close out of the internet and REBOOT your
> >> > machine.
> >> >
> >>
> >> > ***EDIT***
> >> > Now it seems that a run IPCONFIG /FLUSHDNS will work without doing the above
> >> > mentioned.
> >>
> >>
> >> Have you tried to diagnose why that helps? All it means is that either
> >> something is adding obsolete entries to the HOSTS file or you have too
> >> long a TTL for the DNS A Record. In the latter case I would expect
> >> that to only be an issue if the machine was not being rebooted, so that
> >> would make me wonder if Hibernate was being used to avoid a reboot.
> >>
> >> Are sales team members authorized to do that ipconfig command?
> >> Then you could also ask them to capture an ipconfig /displaydns
> >> before doing it in order to try to gather enough information to determine
> >> what the real problem is.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Now these options are not working for the sales force when they are on the
> >> > road and connected to our network via the VPN. This causes big issues when
> >> > these guys have to travel to corporate just to be able to access the company
> >> > portal.
> >>
> >>
> >> BTW this is probably more to do with the OS Networking than with IE.
> >> I have guessed that XP may be involved (e.g. easier on it to issue
> >> the ipconfig command <w>) and am cross-posting this to XP Networking.
> >>
> >>
> >> Good luck
> >>
> >> Robert Aldwinckle
> >> ---
> >>
> >>
> >>

>
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2009
Robert Aldwinckle
 

Posts: n/a
Re: Company portal issues

"scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:79B2E8F5-359A-4F16-89DE-256AB4481710@microsoft.com...
> 1. Not sure what hibernate has to do with this? But they do reboot?



Then what is the point about the ipconfig /flushdns?
Rebooting should have the same effect. Hibernate might not.


>
> 2. Thw other center is on our network but connects back using Time Warner?
>
> 3. Yes they are allowed to run that command and I log onto the machine as
> the user to do it.
>
> 4. I am pretty sure this has nothing to do or perhaps very little with VPN
> and the aircard connection, but really it should not matter what wireless
> connection they are using, all they need to do is get to the main webpage


> (which they can do) and from there click on the "Employee Zone" that's where
> it fails on the road.



Why not elaborate on that symptom then. If it is part of the same web site
it's unlikely that DNS lookup has anything to do with the problem.
All it would likely be doing is changing the timing of a request somehow.


>
> If I do a IPCONFIG /DISPLAYDNS the entries are present for both working and
> non-working machines.



But the point was, are they the right entries? E.g. if the lookup is cached
and it stays cached because no reboot is done and because the TTL
is too long but the addresses can change then you would have a situation
where the cached lookups would be invalid. Then that would explain why
doing a FlushDNS would be useful. Otherwise, the only difference it can
make is in the timing of the requests as a whole.

I suspect something else is happening, not related to DNS.
I would try using Fiddler2 to get its perspective of the symptom.
Otherwise, I would do a netcap to capture all the TCP packets
related to the browser's request. You can format the resulting
..cap file with Ethereal (aka WireShark).


Good luck

Robert
---


>
> "Robert Aldwinckle" wrote:
>
>>
>> "scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:6EE0F46C-A0D6-4EED-ACD3-32E970450980@microsoft.com...
>> >I don't know, I just dont get it, why would the portal work fine for in-house
>> > users and not the "road warriors"?

>>
>>
>> Perhaps they don't use Hibernate? <eg>
>>
>>
>> > in fact, I have a whole center down the
>> > road that cant access it either?

>>
>> > and no IPCONFIG/FLUSHDNS fixes those
>> > machines, they just flat out will not connect to the portal.

>>
>>
>> which suggests they have a different symptom cause.
>> What other diagnostics are you gathering?
>>
>>
>> >
>> > If the user brings it in-house to get repaired I simply run that command,
>> > then I test the connection by using the airard and VPN and it works all day
>> > long?

>>
>>
>> Because they aren't allowed to do that? Because you are logging on
>> with a different userid?
>>
>>
>> > As soon as they take the machine out of the building it may work once
>> > or twice but it WILL FAIL. Now I should also mention that most of these guys
>> > are using thier own wireless connection either at home or on the road, these
>> > guys live off "borrowed" wireless connections. So I was thinking that may
>> > have something to do with it?

>>
>>
>> That could certainly change their connectivity. ; }
>>
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Robert
>> ---
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "Robert Aldwinckle" wrote:
>> >
>> >> (cross-post added to XP Networking)
>> >> "scj6771" <scj6771@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:A58E72D2-127D-4634-B577-CACCDFD01A74@microsoft.com...
>> >> > We have issues with our sales force accessing our company portal on the road,
>> >> > they are connecting using a VPN client usually through the Verizon aircard we
>> >> > give them.
>> >> >
>> >> > The portal will work fine perhaps for a few days but eventually they will
>> >> > get the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage" message.
>> >> >
>> >> > The real problem is that they have no way of fixing this when on the road,
>> >> > however, once the machine is brought back and "jacked" into our network we
>> >> > can fix it doing the following:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. From Internet Explorer go to "Tools" then "Internet Options"
>> >> > 2. Then click on "Delete".
>> >> > 3. Then click on "Delete All" and select "Yes" at the next box.
>> >> > 4. Then select the "Security" tab at the top and select "Local intranet" then
>> >> > "Sites"
>> >> > 5. Then add "company portal address" and select "Add" to drop it into the
>> >> > box and then "Close".
>> >> > 6. Then select the "Content" tab at the top and select the "Clear SSL State"
>> >> > tab.
>> >> > 7. Then select the "Advanced" tab and scroll to the bottom and make sure
>> >> > that USE SSL2.0, USE SSL 3.0 and USE TLS 1.0 are all selected.
>> >> > 8. Then select "Ok" at the bottom, close out of the internet and REBOOT your
>> >> > machine.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > ***EDIT***
>> >> > Now it seems that a run IPCONFIG /FLUSHDNS will work without doing the above
>> >> > mentioned.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Have you tried to diagnose why that helps? All it means is that either
>> >> something is adding obsolete entries to the HOSTS file or you have too
>> >> long a TTL for the DNS A Record. In the latter case I would expect
>> >> that to only be an issue if the machine was not being rebooted, so that
>> >> would make me wonder if Hibernate was being used to avoid a reboot.
>> >>
>> >> Are sales team members authorized to do that ipconfig command?
>> >> Then you could also ask them to capture an ipconfig /displaydns
>> >> before doing it in order to try to gather enough information to determine
>> >> what the real problem is.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Now these options are not working for the sales force when they are on the
>> >> > road and connected to our network via the VPN. This causes big issues when
>> >> > these guys have to travel to corporate just to be able to access the company
>> >> > portal.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> BTW this is probably more to do with the OS Networking than with IE.
>> >> I have guessed that XP may be involved (e.g. easier on it to issue
>> >> the ipconfig command <w>) and am cross-posting this to XP Networking.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Good luck
>> >>
>> >> Robert Aldwinckle
>> >> ---
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>

>>
>>
>>



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