To PA Bear about IE 8

PA Bear,

I think I may have overlooked something about IE 8 and Windows Live Mail
concerning Microsoft Office Outlook not opening when I click on the mail
icon on the tool bar in IE 8. Is Windows Live Mail made for Vista but can
work on XP? Is IE 8 code more of a made for Windows 7 Internet Explorer
where IE 8 will have Windows Live Mail replacing the old Outlook Express for
good? I am waiting for Windows 7 so I can get rid of Outlook Express off my
computer. I uninstalled it but it's still on my system and it won't let me
delete it.

Thank you,
David

David, since you're accessing this newsgroup via Windows Live Mail (WLMail),
you should be able to find and reply to your original thread via Windows
Live Mail, too. If you did so, this would be much less confusing for all of
us.

Clicking on the following link should open your first post (in your very
first thread) in WLMail: news:%23LZw7QBtJHA.1236@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl

[Tip: Configure WLMail's View | Current view setting to "Show all messages,"
"Group messages by conversation," and "Show replies to my messages."]

WLMail can be installed in WinXP SP2/SP3 or Vista (SP1):
http://get.live.com/wlmail/system_requirements

IE8 is not "coded" for any particular Mail Client.

As it stands now, Windows 7 will not include any default Mail Client when
it's released. (See below.) If that remains the case, we expect OEM
versions of Windows 7 to include a short-cut link to http://get.live.com
prominently placed on the desktop which may be used to download/install
any/all Windows Live applications available at that time.

OE6 running in WinXP is the end-of-the-road for OE. While the flakey &
incomplete Windows Mail in Vista would appear to be the end-of-the-road for
that Mail Client, it's no big secret that Win7 Beta includes...

%system%\Program Files\Windows Mail <=this folder

....so who knows for sure?

If OL in Vista is configured as the default Mail Client in (1) Default
Programs and in (2) OL Tools | Options | General | Default messaging
programs (or similar), clicking on IE8's Mail button should open OL
(assuming IE8 was installed in the proper environment).

PS: The IE8 version running in Win7 Beta1 is an earlier version, but not
necessarily a beta version, than the IE8 Final version released on 19
Mar-09 that you're running (I presume).
--
~PA Bear

titus12 wrote:
> I think I may have overlooked something about IE 8 and Windows Live Mail
> concerning Microsoft Office Outlook not opening when I click on the mail
> icon on the tool bar in IE 8. Is Windows Live Mail made for Vista but can
> work on XP? Is IE 8 code more of a made for Windows 7 Internet Explorer
> where IE 8 will have Windows Live Mail replacing the old Outlook Express
> for
> good? I am waiting for Windows 7 so I can get rid of Outlook Express off
> my
> computer. I uninstalled it but it's still on my system and it won't let
> me
> delete it.
>
> Thank you,
> David

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

> OE6 running in WinXP is the end-of-the-road for OE. While the flakey
> & incomplete Windows Mail in Vista would appear to be the
> end-of-the-road for that Mail Client, it's no big secret that Win7
> Beta includes...
>
> %system%\Program Files\Windows Mail <=this folder

Yes. But at present it dies not work.
It needs the files copied over from Vista.

> ...so who knows for sure?

I would seriously hope to be able to still use WinMail under Win7.
I have tried out WLMail but it's not my taste :-( :-(

Rainald

"Rainald Taesler" <taesler@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:%23KlFwAZtJHA.1212@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>
>> OE6 running in WinXP is the end-of-the-road for OE. While the flakey
>> & incomplete Windows Mail in Vista would appear to be the
>> end-of-the-road for that Mail Client, it's no big secret that Win7
>> Beta includes...
>>
>> %system%\Program Files\Windows Mail <=this folder
>
> Yes. But at present it dies not work.
> It needs the files copied over from Vista.
>
>> ...so who knows for sure?
>
> I would seriously hope to be able to still use WinMail under Win7.
> I have tried out WLMail but it's not my taste :-( :-(
>
> Rainald
>

I second this. I think Windows Mail not at all flakey compared to Live Mail.
I find the whole Live Suite to be buggy and resource intensive. Functions OK
in Windows 7 Beta, but not more than OK. I find IE8 to be very functional in
both Vista and Windows 7.

[Please go away. David's confused enough as it is.]

Rainald Taesler wrote:
> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>
>> OE6 running in WinXP is the end-of-the-road for OE. While the flakey
>> & incomplete Windows Mail in Vista would appear to be the
>> end-of-the-road for that Mail Client, it's no big secret that Win7
>> Beta includes...
>>
>> %system%\Program Files\Windows Mail <=this folder
>
> Yes. But at present it dies not work.
> It needs the files copied over from Vista.
>
>> ...so who knows for sure?
>
> I would seriously hope to be able to still use WinMail under Win7.
> I have tried out WLMail but it's not my taste :-( :-(
>
> Rainald

PA Bear,

I am not confused any more. Windows Live Mail does to much and it has bugs
in it when it comes to XP. In Windows 7, I am hoping that this mess is not
automatic. I would hope that Microsoft would have a Program for Newsgroups
that's not connected to Mail until the bugs are worked out. If a customer
has Office Outlook 2007, this would work fine as a Mail handler. Just
create a part for Newsgroups to work with it in IE 8 and outside of IE 8.
Sorry for the question when I should have remembered the different cores in
XP vs. Vista and Windows 7.

David

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uv4gWkhtJHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> [Please go away. David's confused enough as it is.]
>
> Rainald Taesler wrote:
>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>
>>> OE6 running in WinXP is the end-of-the-road for OE. While the flakey
>>> & incomplete Windows Mail in Vista would appear to be the
>>> end-of-the-road for that Mail Client, it's no big secret that Win7
>>> Beta includes...
>>>
>>> %system%\Program Files\Windows Mail <=this folder
>>
>> Yes. But at present it dies not work.
>> It needs the files copied over from Vista.
>>
>>> ...so who knows for sure?
>>
>> I would seriously hope to be able to still use WinMail under Win7.
>> I have tried out WLMail but it's not my taste :-( :-(
>>
>> Rainald

I'd expect there to be yet another Windows Live beta and yet another Windows
Live build released before Win7 is released, David. Whether WLMail becomes
less-buggy & more user-friendly as a result remains to be seen.

There are any number of non-MS NNTP newsreader Add-ins for OL; e.g.,
http://www.shorelinesoftware.com/NewsHound.htm.

And there are a number of non-MS Mail & News Clients that can be used in
Win7; e.g., http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/

"titus12" wrote:
> ...Windows Live Mail does to much and it has bugs in it when it comes to
> XP. In Windows 7, I am hoping that this mess is not automatic. I would
> hope that Microsoft would have a Program for Newsgroups that's not
> connected to Mail until the bugs are worked out. If a customer has Office
> Outlook 2007, this would work fine as a Mail handler. Just create a part
> for Newsgroups to work with it in IE 8 and outside of IE 8. Sorry for the
> question when I should have remembered the different cores in XP vs. Vista
> and Windows 7.
>
<OT TROLL SNIPPAGE>
>>
>>> PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
>>>> OE6 running in WinXP is the end-of-the-road for OE. While the flakey
>>>> & incomplete Windows Mail in Vista would appear to be the
>>>> end-of-the-road for that Mail Client, it's no big secret that Win7
>>>> Beta includes...
>>>>
>>>> %system%\Program Files\Windows Mail <=this folder
>>>> ...so who knows for sure?

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

>>> OE6 running in WinXP is the end-of-the-road for OE. While the
>>> flakey & incomplete Windows Mail in Vista would appear to be the
>>> end-of-the-road for that Mail Client, it's no big secret that Win7
>>> Beta includes...
>>>
>>> %system%\Program Files\Windows Mail <=this folder
>>
>> Yes. But at present it dies not work.
>> It needs the files copied over from Vista.
>>
>>> ...so who knows for sure?
>>
>> I would seriously hope to be able to still use WinMail under Win7.
>> I have tried out WLMail but it's not my taste :-( :-(

> [Please go away. David's confused enough as it is.]

Thanks for the warm greetings <g,d&rf>

But honestly speaking:
Are *YOU* the *owner* of this thread??

If any confusion might have been spread the it would have been your
apocryph mentioning of the WinMail folder in Win7 <!>
I think that it was *necessary* to jump in and destroy possible false
hopes.

And: The OP himself says that there was no adding to confusion.
So why do you act as the girl on the kindergarten trying to protect the
children?
IMHO people posting in here normally are grown-up persons and may decide
themselves whether something is confusing or not <bg>.

Rainald

PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:

> There are any number of non-MS NNTP newsreader Add-ins for OL; e.g.,
> http://www.shorelinesoftware.com/NewsHound.htm.

Are you honestly/seriously suggesting "NewsHound"??
As to my experience it's hardly usable.
Really awful.

> And there are a number of non-MS Mail & News Clients that can be used
> in Win7; e.g., http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/

And some more, f.e. "Forte Agent" or "40tude Dialog".

But none of the all-in-one solution matches the ease of use of the -
often blamed - OE and its successor WinMail.

For me Thunderbird seems to be the only solution in case hacking Win7
for further usage of WinMail will not work as desired in the Win7 final.

Rainald

titus12 wrote:

>>>> OE6 running in WinXP is the end-of-the-road for OE. While the
>>>> flakey & incomplete Windows Mail in Vista would appear to be the
>>>> end-of-the-road for that Mail Client, it's no big secret that Win7
>>>> Beta includes...
>>>>
>>>> %system%\Program Files\Windows Mail <=this folder
>>>
>>> Yes. But at present it does not work.
>>> It needs the files copied over from Vista.
>>>
>>>> ...so who knows for sure?
>>>
>>> I would seriously hope to be able to still use WinMail under Win7.
>>> I have tried out WLMail but it's not my taste :-( :-(
>>
>> [Please go away. David's confused enough as it is.]
>
> am not confused any more.

LOL

> Windows Live Mail does to much and it has bugs in it
> when it comes to XP.

Can't say as I have no machine left with XP.

> In Windows 7, I am hoping that this mess is not
> automatic.

Not "automatic".
MS has learnt some lessons the hard way (especially from the anti-trust
court cases with the European Union [EU]).
But the current state is that WinMail will be no longer available in
Win7. And MS is pushing things towards "Live" on all levels. And
therefore WLMail will be *the* MS thing in the future.

> I would hope that Microsoft would have a
> Program for Newsgroups that's not connected to Mail until the bugs
> are worked out.

You hope in vain. You won't see anything in this direction.
One the one side MD has stopped any development on mail and news clients
and is totally relying on WLMail.
OTH MS sees newsgroups as a thing of the past and heavily pushes things
into the direction of Web-forums. AFAICS there will be no new NGs from
MS and they are planning to give up the NNTP technology.

> If a customer has Office Outlook 2007, this would
> work fine as a Mail handler. Just create a part for Newsgroups to
> work with it in IE 8 and outside of IE 8.

This won't work.
Outlook has always been proprietary in so far.
And it would be anything but trivial to add NNTP support there.

PA Bear suggested "NewsHoud", an add-on for Outlook.
I tried it out and worked with it for a while. Gave it up because it has
too many drawbacks compared to OE and WinMail.

There is a number of "professional" NewsReaders (be it Forte Agent or
Gravity).
They all are far more powerful than OE and WinMail and have to offer far
more. Tried them all. Still I always went back to OE.
Why?
Easy enough: I need an *all-in-one* solution and the very same UI.

A highly sophisticated app offering that is "40tude Dialog".
It has much to offer (far better functionality than OE and its younger
brother WinMail).
Still I returned to WinMail (mainly because if it UI which simply does
not fit in the environment if Vista/Win7).

As of now it seems that Thunderbird for me will be the only solution if
WinMail can not be used anymore under Win7.
I won't take the "Live Route" - not because of bugs or being "flaky" as
you say.
I just can not make my peace with the UI (user interface).

Rainald