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IE7/HTML

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008
techexec
 

Posts: n/a
IE7/HTML
Hello All,



We are a small internet company and we have noticed within the last month
that all of our client websites have broken when viewed in IE7. To be more
specific, the navigation has broken. This is something that has just happened
as all websites worked just fine in IE7. We searched through all of the
recent patches released by Microsoft but none looked to contain any info that
might lead us to a reason for this anomaly. We thought it may be that
Microsoft updated IE7 to have the same strict HTML rules as IE8 but could not
find any documentation to support this.



If anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this issue, please let me
know ASAP. I would hate to have my programmers go through over 100 websites
to fix something that might be temporary.



Best regards,

TechExec


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008
rob^_^
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
Hi Techexec,

Who wrote your menu code?

Your developers?

A third-party?

MS?

2000$ bet that it was not MS, Your Developers (20$ bet that they used
third-party snippets and extenal scripts from third-parties)?
A third-party? Most developers do no re-invent wheels and rely on
third-parties to provide snippets and proto-types that developers can
incorporate in their pages. My strongest suspicion is an external script
supplied by your menus vendor.

Stick to your day job, and leave the coding to those you pay to know their
job.

Regards.

"techexec" <techexec@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7DBE6503-2D70-4156-9E12-9414DD20673E@microsoft.com...
> Hello All,
>
>
>
> We are a small internet company and we have noticed within the last month
> that all of our client websites have broken when viewed in IE7. To be more
> specific, the navigation has broken. This is something that has just
> happened
> as all websites worked just fine in IE7. We searched through all of the
> recent patches released by Microsoft but none looked to contain any info
> that
> might lead us to a reason for this anomaly. We thought it may be that
> Microsoft updated IE7 to have the same strict HTML rules as IE8 but could
> not
> find any documentation to support this.
>
>
>
> If anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this issue, please let
> me
> know ASAP. I would hate to have my programmers go through over 100
> websites
> to fix something that might be temporary.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> TechExec
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2008
techexec
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
Rob,

While I appreciate your post and repsect your opinion, this is a very
serious matter that requires a serious answer. If my developers new the
answer to why thier code works perfect in IE7 one day and 8 month prior to
that day and then not the next, then I would not be posting to this forum.

You seem to know a whole lot about how we code for someone who knows nothing
about us. You know what they say about those who assume. I would suggest that
you take the time to think through your posts before you actually post them.

Thanks again for your comments but unless you have an actual solution to the
problem I would appreciate not hearing from you again.

Best regards,

TechExec



"rob^_^" wrote:

> Hi Techexec,
>
> Who wrote your menu code?
>
> Your developers?
>
> A third-party?
>
> MS?
>
> 2000$ bet that it was not MS, Your Developers (20$ bet that they used
> third-party snippets and extenal scripts from third-parties)?
> A third-party? Most developers do no re-invent wheels and rely on
> third-parties to provide snippets and proto-types that developers can
> incorporate in their pages. My strongest suspicion is an external script
> supplied by your menus vendor.
>
> Stick to your day job, and leave the coding to those you pay to know their
> job.
>
> Regards.
>
> "techexec" <techexec@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:7DBE6503-2D70-4156-9E12-9414DD20673E@microsoft.com...
> > Hello All,
> >
> >
> >
> > We are a small internet company and we have noticed within the last month
> > that all of our client websites have broken when viewed in IE7. To be more
> > specific, the navigation has broken. This is something that has just
> > happened
> > as all websites worked just fine in IE7. We searched through all of the
> > recent patches released by Microsoft but none looked to contain any info
> > that
> > might lead us to a reason for this anomaly. We thought it may be that
> > Microsoft updated IE7 to have the same strict HTML rules as IE8 but could
> > not
> > find any documentation to support this.
> >
> >
> >
> > If anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this issue, please let
> > me
> > know ASAP. I would hate to have my programmers go through over 100
> > websites
> > to fix something that might be temporary.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > TechExec
> >
> >

Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008
Kayman
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:20:11 -0800, techexec wrote:

> Hello All,
> We are a small internet company and we have noticed within the last month
> that all of our client websites have broken when viewed in IE7. To be more
> specific, the navigation has broken. This is something that has just happened
> as all websites worked just fine in IE7. We searched through all of the
> recent patches released by Microsoft but none looked to contain any info that
> might lead us to a reason for this anomaly. We thought it may be that
> Microsoft updated IE7 to have the same strict HTML rules as IE8 but could not
> find any documentation to support this.
> If anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this issue, please let me
> know ASAP. I would hate to have my programmers go through over 100 websites
> to fix something that might be temporary.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008
rob^_^
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
So?

Who wrote your menus? (You replied that your Developers did?) Do they use
third-party scripts? Do you have a sample page we can have a look at.

For a supposed tech exec you don't know how to ask a question.

"If my developers new the
> answer to why thier code works perfect in IE7 one day and 8 month prior to
> that day and then not the next, then I would not be posting to this
> forum." (bad spelln)



Welcome to application development. Its called the software development life
cycle. Live with it.





"techexec" <techexec@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:27D607BC-E385-4A02-B8D2-C027194AC332@microsoft.com...
> Rob,
>
> While I appreciate your post and repsect your opinion, this is a very
> serious matter that requires a serious answer. If my developers new the
> answer to why thier code works perfect in IE7 one day and 8 month prior to
> that day and then not the next, then I would not be posting to this forum.
>
> You seem to know a whole lot about how we code for someone who knows
> nothing
> about us. You know what they say about those who assume. I would suggest
> that
> you take the time to think through your posts before you actually post
> them.
>
> Thanks again for your comments but unless you have an actual solution to
> the
> problem I would appreciate not hearing from you again.
>
> Best regards,
>
> TechExec
>
>
>
> "rob^_^" wrote:
>
>> Hi Techexec,
>>
>> Who wrote your menu code?
>>
>> Your developers?
>>
>> A third-party?
>>
>> MS?
>>
>> 2000$ bet that it was not MS, Your Developers (20$ bet that they used
>> third-party snippets and extenal scripts from third-parties)?
>> A third-party? Most developers do no re-invent wheels and rely on
>> third-parties to provide snippets and proto-types that developers can
>> incorporate in their pages. My strongest suspicion is an external script
>> supplied by your menus vendor.
>>
>> Stick to your day job, and leave the coding to those you pay to know
>> their
>> job.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> "techexec" <techexec@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:7DBE6503-2D70-4156-9E12-9414DD20673E@microsoft.com...
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We are a small internet company and we have noticed within the last
>> > month
>> > that all of our client websites have broken when viewed in IE7. To be
>> > more
>> > specific, the navigation has broken. This is something that has just
>> > happened
>> > as all websites worked just fine in IE7. We searched through all of the
>> > recent patches released by Microsoft but none looked to contain any
>> > info
>> > that
>> > might lead us to a reason for this anomaly. We thought it may be that
>> > Microsoft updated IE7 to have the same strict HTML rules as IE8 but
>> > could
>> > not
>> > find any documentation to support this.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this issue, please
>> > let
>> > me
>> > know ASAP. I would hate to have my programmers go through over 100
>> > websites
>> > to fix something that might be temporary.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > TechExec
>> >
>> >

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008
Daniel Crichton
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
techexec wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:20:11 -0800:

> Hello All,




> We are a small internet company and we have noticed within the last
> month that all of our client websites have broken when viewed in IE7.
> To be more specific, the navigation has broken. This is something that
> has just happened as all websites worked just fine in IE7. We searched
> through all of the recent patches released by Microsoft but none
> looked to contain any info that might lead us to a reason for this
> anomaly. We thought it may be that
> Microsoft updated IE7 to have the same strict HTML rules as IE8 but
> could not find any documentation to support this.




> If anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this issue, please
> let me know ASAP. I would hate to have my programmers go through over
> 100 websites to fix something that might be temporary.



Without viewing the HTML it's going to be hard, if not impossible for anyone
to help solve this for you. Have you changed anything recently? Did you add
a DOCTYPE to your pages, or change an existing one? Did anyone copy files to
these sites to "upgrade" the navigation and possibly put an incompatible
script in place?

If you have an example URL showing the problem then I'd be happy to take a
look - but without the HTML and all associated CSS and script files to look
at there's little chance of a solution being suggested.

Also, use the HTML Validator http://validator.w3.org/ on one of the broken
pages and make sure you have a valid HTML/XHTML page to start with.

--
Dan


Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008
techexec
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
Daniel,

Thank you for your post. Your post has been the most helpful post so far. We
have over 100 websites we host and write code for and we would not have
updated all 100 in one months time so I don't see there being an issue with
the code having been changed as the problem. One day all 100+ websites were
fine and the next day they were all broke. My developers are going through
the code now to see what they can find. My question and the reason for this
post is we wanted to know if Microsoft had release any new updates for IE7
that may have changed the way IE7 renders websites.

Best regards,

techexec

"Daniel Crichton" wrote:

> techexec wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:20:11 -0800:
>
> > Hello All,

>
>
>
> > We are a small internet company and we have noticed within the last
> > month that all of our client websites have broken when viewed in IE7.
> > To be more specific, the navigation has broken. This is something that
> > has just happened as all websites worked just fine in IE7. We searched
> > through all of the recent patches released by Microsoft but none
> > looked to contain any info that might lead us to a reason for this
> > anomaly. We thought it may be that
> > Microsoft updated IE7 to have the same strict HTML rules as IE8 but
> > could not find any documentation to support this.

>
>
>
> > If anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this issue, please
> > let me know ASAP. I would hate to have my programmers go through over
> > 100 websites to fix something that might be temporary.

>
>
> Without viewing the HTML it's going to be hard, if not impossible for anyone
> to help solve this for you. Have you changed anything recently? Did you add
> a DOCTYPE to your pages, or change an existing one? Did anyone copy files to
> these sites to "upgrade" the navigation and possibly put an incompatible
> script in place?
>
> If you have an example URL showing the problem then I'd be happy to take a
> look - but without the HTML and all associated CSS and script files to look
> at there's little chance of a solution being suggested.
>
> Also, use the HTML Validator http://validator.w3.org/ on one of the broken
> pages and make sure you have a valid HTML/XHTML page to start with.
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
>

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008
Daniel Crichton
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
Without knowing more about what it is that these menus are made out of, this
is like getting blood out of a stone. Is it DHTML? AJAX? VBScript? JScript?
CSS? Flash? It's possible that a non-IE patch could have "broken" it, such
as a scripting engine update, but without knowing what the menus are created
with makes it nigh on impossible to point you in the right direction. Can
you provide just 1 public URL with one of these broken pages and point to
the part that isn't working correctly? At least that will give me something
to go on, and I can also verify whether it's an issue with IE or something
else - for instance, have you tested the pages with IE in no-addons mode, as
maybe a common add-on is causing the problems.

There are patches being released regularly, and they are not all installed
at once across every PC worldwide - updates via Windows Update are
staggered, and some people (such as myself) don't allow patches to be
installed automatically so testing can be done first. Do you have a rough
date of when things appeared to start rendering incorrectly? A few weeks ago
a cumulative security update for IE7 was released, more details are here: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=956390
, but this doesn't appear to include any changes that would cause the
rendering engine to change drastically.

Have you considered other possible issues, such as the widespread
installation of the update to Flash 10 by Adobe recently?

Dan

techexec wrote on Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:35:01 -0800:

> Daniel,


> Thank you for your post. Your post has been the most helpful post so
> far. We have over 100 websites we host and write code for and we would
> not have updated all 100 in one months time so I don't see there being
> an issue with the code having been changed as the problem. One day all
> 100+ websites were fine and the next day they were all broke. My
> developers are going through the code now to see what they can find.
> My question and the reason for this post is we wanted to know if
> Microsoft had release any new updates for IE7 that may have changed
> the way IE7 renders websites.


> Best regards,


> techexec


> "Daniel Crichton" wrote:


>> techexec wrote on Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:20:11 -0800:


>>> Hello All,




>>> We are a small internet company and we have noticed within the last
>>> month that all of our client websites have broken when viewed in
>>> IE7.
>>> To be more specific, the navigation has broken. This is something
>>> that has just happened as all websites worked just fine in IE7. We
>>> searched through all of the recent patches released by Microsoft
>>> but none looked to contain any info that might lead us to a reason
>>> for this anomaly. We thought it may be that
>>> Microsoft updated IE7 to have the same strict HTML rules as IE8 but
>>> could not find any documentation to support this.




>>> If anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this issue, please
>>> let me know ASAP. I would hate to have my programmers go through
>>> over 100 websites to fix something that might be temporary.



>> Without viewing the HTML it's going to be hard, if not impossible for
>> anyone to help solve this for you. Have you changed anything
>> recently? Did you add a DOCTYPE to your pages, or change an existing
>> one? Did anyone copy files to these sites to "upgrade" the
>> navigation and possibly put an incompatible script in place?


>> If you have an example URL showing the problem then I'd be happy to
>> take a look - but without the HTML and all associated CSS and script
>> files to look at there's little chance of a solution being
>> suggested.


>> Also, use the HTML Validator http://validator.w3.org/ on one of the
>> broken pages and make sure you have a valid HTML/XHTML page to start
>> with.


>> --
>> Dan




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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008
Daniel Crichton
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
Sorry, there was a rendering engine change in that security patch: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/956615/

This changes the table rendering timeouts and the level of nested tables. If
you have a horrendous number of nested tables then it's possible that IE7 is
now ignoring those tables beyond it's new nested table limit - if this is
what is affecting you then you need to seriously reconsider your menu system
as there should be no reason to be using so many nested tables. I've just
tested my IE7 here:

http://www.helephant.com/downloads/download.ashx?ID=887

which shows that it handles 27 levels of nesting (and yes, I have that
security update installed). This is more than sufficient, at least in my
opinion.

Firefox apparently handles 33 levels of nested tables. And using DIV tags to
replicate tables is a workaround should this be the case and you need more
than 27 levels, as IE will happily handle over 1000 levels but rendering is
incredibly slow once you get that far

Dan

> Daniel,


> Thank you for your post. Your post has been the most helpful post so
> far. We
> have over 100 websites we host and write code for and we would not have
> updated all 100 in one months time so I don't see there being an issue
> with
> the code having been changed as the problem. One day all 100+ websites
> were
> fine and the next day they were all broke. My developers are going
> through
> the code now to see what they can find. My question and the reason for
> this
> post is we wanted to know if Microsoft had release any new updates for
> IE7
> that may have changed the way IE7 renders websites.




Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2008
Daniel Crichton
 

Posts: n/a
Re: IE7/HTML
Unlikely to be that change - I've found articles showing that the limit was
27 levels in IE7 from 2 years ago.

Dan

Daniel wrote to Daniel Crichton on Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:20:16 -0000:

> Sorry, there was a rendering engine change in that security patch:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/956615/


> This changes the table rendering timeouts and the level of nested
> tables. If you have a horrendous number of nested tables then it's
> possible that IE7 is now ignoring those tables beyond it's new nested
> table limit - if this is what is affecting you then you need to
> seriously reconsider your menu system as there should be no reason to
> be using so many nested tables. I've just tested my IE7 here:


> http://www.helephant.com/downloads/download.ashx?ID=887


> which shows that it handles 27 levels of nesting (and yes, I have that
> security update installed). This is more than sufficient, at least in
> my opinion.


> Firefox apparently handles 33 levels of nested tables. And using DIV
> tags to replicate tables is a workaround should this be the case and
> you need more than 27 levels, as IE will happily handle over 1000
> levels but rendering is incredibly slow once you get that far


> Dan


>> Daniel,


>> Thank you for your post. Your post has been the most helpful post so
>> far. We have over 100 websites we host and write code for and we
>> would not have updated all 100 in one months time so I don't see
>> there being an issue with the code having been changed as the
>> problem. One day all 100+ websites were fine and the next day they
>> were all broke. My developers are going through the code now to see
>> what they can find. My question and the reason for this post is we
>> wanted to know if Microsoft had release any new updates for
>> IE7 that may have changed the way IE7 renders websites.




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